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Heinlein Reader's Discussion Group

Saturday 1-26-2002 5:00 P.M. EST

The Evolution Of Presentation

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Here Begins The Discussion Log

You have just entered room "Heinlein Readers Group chat."

DennnEditor: Hello.

DennnEditor: You are early, too.

SAcademy: Okay. Was the topic posted? I missed it in that case.

SAcademy: Hi, Denis.

DennnEditor: Yes. But I have no idea what it means.

SAcademy: Wold you mind using boldface? I have trouble reading that light font.

DennnEditor: Is this better?

Paradis402: Hi Ginny, Hi DennE.. the topic is fluid I think.

SAcademy: A lot, thanks.

DennnEditor: <----- Bill Dennis

ddavitt has entered the room.

SAcademy: What fluid? Alcohol?

ddavitt: Hi everyone.

SAcademy: Hello, Jane.

ddavitt: Is that you twice Denis?

Paradis402: No it has to do with changes in reading books, evolution of eBooks, tapes and so on.

DennnEditor: *sigh* <------- Bill Dennis

ddavitt: oops, sorry Bill; thought it might have been a log alter ego as Dave Wright does.

SAcademy: We have a Denis P. and a B. Dennis. Confusing.

ddavitt: Isn't it :-)

DennnEditor: I just couldn't get AOL to give me a screen name with "Bill" and "Dennis" in it.

SAcademy: Jane have you seen those smileys that move?

DennnEditor: Although I could have used my old "Libertarian Bill" screen name.

ddavitt: I know; I keep getting stopped by the fact that I signed onto things years ago and now have a new email. It keeps saying my name is taken; it is - by me.

DennnEditor: ... but I'm not confortable with that.

ddavitt: Not yet Ginny; any luck with them?

Paradis402: Not confusing is it Bill? You have one more than I do. And probably nicer too.

DennnEditor: probably

SAcademy: Downloaded them, but can't get them into a useful condition yet.

ddavitt: Shame.

ddavitt: Sound like fun

DennnEditor: animated smilies? LOL

ddavitt: brb; have to get food out of the oven.

SAcademy: It really is. Thought I'd surprise people with them

Paradis402: AOL says on their welcome page you can send somebody a thumping heart for Valentines. Give me a break!

SAcademy: You mean you won't send me one?

DennnEditor: Which is one reason I am not using AOL. Besides the fact that my ISP lets me use high speed cable modem.

Paradis402: Of course! Both of them.

ddavitt: Hold out for roses Ginny; less gruesome.

Paradis402: She prefers orchids. :-)

DennnEditor: reminds me of "The Telltale Heart" ....

Paradis402: Poe? Right.

DennnEditor: (is that the correct title? I last read it in grade school)

SAcademy: Actually green orchids

ddavitt: I got an orchid from David once valentine's; a live one in a pot about 2 foot tall that his friend had grown form seed or whatever they grow from

Paradis402: Did you ever grow those? The green ones, Ginny.

DennnEditor: Anyone ever notice how the theme from "Jaws" is like a beating heart?

Paradis402: Yes.

SAcademy: Yes, I have a plant now. Got it for Christmas. Cymbidiumx

ddavitt: Flowered several times but we had to leave it behind Phallinopsis (sp?)

SAcademy: Scratch that x should be an s.

DennnEditor: People who hate plants send them to me. I kill them all.

Paradis402: Ginny is also our plant expert.

SAcademy: Phalaenopsis.

ddavitt: I have none now; as Ginny knows my cats and lauren kept eating 'em and turned out they were poisonous so I got rid of them

KultsiKN has entered the room.

DennnEditor: Hello!

KultsiKN: Hello, everybody!

ddavitt: That sounds right Ginny, thanks.

ddavitt: Hi Kultsi

Paradis402: Hi Kultsi!

SAcademy: Hi Kultsi. Greetings.

DennnEditor: I am going to have to set up a profile so eveyrone will know who I am ...

DennnEditor: <---- Bill Dennis

ddavitt: Good news; Robert Crais will be a guest

ddavitt: Possibly the next chat

DennnEditor: Oh, good. The name is familiar, but I can't recall what he has written

ddavitt: Any of you read him? I enjoyed his books a lot

SAcademy: Has Spider been scheduled yet?

Paradis402: Oh Jane. You and your hunks!

ddavitt: P.I stuff with a detective called Elvis Cole

ddavitt: He is cute:-)

DennnEditor: <----- feels terrible for not even starting to read Callahan's Bar series.

ddavitt: But married and sick of interviewers concentrating on that

ddavitt: And 2 stand alone's.

Paradis402: Yes he is a handsome sort. Looks a bit like a young Sean Connery.

ddavitt: He always has a Heinlein character name or reference

ddavitt: Joe Pike is hunky; but he's fictional:-)

DennnEditor: I have always wondered why RAH never tried his hand at a second detective story.

ddavitt: Callahan's books are good.

ddavitt: He said it didn't pay in EU

SAcademy: He didn't like writing them.

DennnEditor: Well ... that explains it.

ddavitt: And maybe because he wasn't as fond of the genre?

SAcademy: Liked SF bett4er than anything.

ddavitt: In NOTB the 4 don't like any but Sherlock Holmes

ddavitt: That explains it then.

ddavitt: No reason why the author can't enjoy what they write after all

DennnEditor: Homes made a few HUGE errors in fact.

ddavitt: Hey, we should have started by now!

SAcademy: Didn't A> P. White write some more Sherlock Holmes stories?

ddavitt: Where did you finsih on Thursday after I left?

Paradis402: We were on Mars.

DennnEditor: In one, he had a poisonous snake crawling down a rope. That can't do that apparently.

ddavitt: Lots of people have Ginny...don't know about AP

SAcademy: I think under the name of H. H. Holmes.

ddavitt: Oh..but wasnt that a murderer's name?

SAcademy: He had several pseudonyms going.

ddavitt: Rocket to the Morgue may have been under that name originally

DennnEditor: Nicholas Meyer wrote a couple ... 7 percent solution and another one, I believe

ddavitt: It is a huge genre

ddavitt: I like the ones about Irene Adler

ddavitt: And of course, the laurie King ones

ddavitt: Beekeeper's Apprentice and the sequels

DennnEditor: Phil Farmer wrote on that had Holmes and Watson meeting young Tarzan.

ddavitt: Conan Doyle would have been intrigued

Paradis402: That must have been a stretch for Tarzan!

DennnEditor: Of course, PJFarmer started whole sub-genre in which Tarzam, Holmes and other pulp heres are all related

ddavitt: And there are the Jane Austen myseteries; with her solving crimes.

SAcademy: Did anyone start a log?

ddavitt: I can save it all from where I came in

ddavitt: Dave Wright won't be here

ddavitt: So he asked if we could send it to him

Paradis402: I have it in HTML format from the start.

DennnEditor: I don't think anything all THAT important has been said.

ddavitt: Did it work OK on Thursday Denis?

SAcademy: I think Bill is relaxing he had an eye exam this morning, and can't see probably.

ddavitt: No, and I can't stay for the whole time so let's start then

Paradis402: I sent it to him. But no reply yet. It worked the last time I sent it that way.

ddavitt: If he had those drops, no probably can't

ddavitt: OK, we were looking at Heinlein books in the future and the past; different ways of presenting them and which work best

SAcademy: He expected to have those drops.

DennnEditor: Speaking of chatroom logs, I listened in on a World Church of the Creator chat room on Thursday. This is that racist group that is growing in popularity.

ddavitt: I grudgingly was persuaded that e-books are handy on space flights to save weight

Paradis402: How did all that go?

SAcademy: Ever attend a Holy Rollers meeting?

ddavitt: We had a Watchtower seller round today...

DennnEditor: Yes! My grandfather was a Holy Roller minister.

DennnEditor: I was a little kid and it scared the Hell out of me.

SAcademy: Really?

DennnEditor: He just did it to raise money. He also was a moonshiner

SAcademy: Great combination.

DennnEditor: He got out of both rackets and went to work elsewhere.

ddavitt: Water into wine...

SAcademy: Didn't the moonshine pay well?

DennnEditor: He thought it was dishonest. The preaching, that is.

ddavitt: Obviously no conflict of interests

Paradis402: Did you want to see if that Church was another version of Scientology, Bill?

DennnEditor: Well, it paid well, but he faced competition from folks who do not tolerate competition, if you catch my drift.

DennnEditor: World Church of the Creator?

Paradis402: Yes.

DennnEditor: No, not scientologists. It is a white supremacist organization

Paradis402: Ooo>:o

DennnEditor: It is based in East Peoria, very close to where I live in Peoria.

SAcademy: Robert knew L. Ron Hubbard.

DennnEditor: My paper is stepping up coverage of them

ddavitt: Why? isn't that giving them publicity?

SAcademy: He was always going to borrow an airplane and come to see us, but he never made it.

DennnEditor: They get publicity anyway.

Paradis402: They impounded it, Ginny.

DennnEditor: Believe me, it is a myth that media ignoring these people make them go away.

DennnEditor: It is wishful thinking.

ddavitt: Isn't it hard to write about them objectively?

SAcademy: Well, I never met him. He was a really colorful character.

DennnEditor: "Objective," in newspapering doesn't mean "don't have an opinion."

ddavitt: We have a current story; local woman charged with assault for breaking up a same sex wedding and haranguing the congregation.

DennnEditor: It means sticking to known facts and giving all a change to comment.

DennnEditor: a chance to comment, I mean

ddavitt: Paper is doing a fair job of printing views from both side but obvious that they are against her.

DennnEditor: ... and there are papers in which it would be obvious they are FOR her.

DennnEditor: It depends on publication and reporter.

DennnEditor: ... a good editor would weed that out.

ddavitt: Canadians are pretty tolerant about people making up their own minds

ddavitt: Someone spoiling a wedding wouldn't get much sympathy

DennnEditor: nope.

ddavitt: Anyway...

DennnEditor: remember that minister who picketed the funeral of that gay hate crime victim?

DennnEditor: Even Jerry Falwall had to distance himself

ddavitt: No, sounds awful thing to do tho

ddavitt: Even jerry huh?

DennnEditor: <---- i'll be quiet now. back to topic.

DennnEditor: "even jerry." is my bias showing?

ddavitt: He hates the Teletubbies. can such evil be tolerated?:-)

Paradis402: No bias.. Jerry is a jerk.

ddavitt: So; if I asked for a vote here, 5 of us; real books or computer ones; which will you buy?

SAcademy: BTW, Panshin is back on afh

ddavitt: Real for me.

KultsiKN: Real.

ddavitt: Yes and I keep trying to find time to go read HiD so I can launch the attack

SAcademy: Falwell reminded me of him.

DennnEditor: LOL

ddavitt: I understand he has it on his site now and I've never read it

DennnEditor: real books

Paradis402: I still buy only books. Falwell and Swaggart and Panshin in a boat.

ddavitt: This is a good chance to read it without it costing me anything

SAcademy: Well, Bill unearthed a letter from Robert to L. S. deCamp and it tells the real facts about Panshin and HID

DennnEditor: really? LOL

DennnEditor: What does it say?

ddavitt: Is that what Jim G meant when he told Panshin he was going to expose him?

SAcademy: I gave permission to put it online. Gidfford is going to do that.

ddavitt: Ah, must have been.

Paradis402: We will have to wait until Bill publishes that Biog.

KultsiKN: This is going to be fun.

ddavitt: Ginny, do you think Mr Heinlein would have used the new tech and let his books be published for palm Pilots and such?

SAcademy: It sure will be for our side.

ddavitt: You were both into computers from the start after all.

DennnEditor: I tried ... I mean really tried ... to read Panshin's site. But it is all so ephemeral. He writes like a college English teacher trying to impress his doctoral committee. It sounds authorative, but it never gets to a point that can

SAcademy: Is that something you want?

DennnEditor: be proved or disproved

DennnEditor: authoratative

ddavitt: I don't but I think as Sf writer maybe it would have been logical. Still printed as a book but also downloadable

DennnEditor: d'oh

SAcademy: There are now two books with one online publisher, and one with Stealth. That's a print volume and a very tpretty one

ddavitt: Is it selling better from print or online?

Paradis402: I don't want eBooks, soft books or a computer screen on the ceiling of my bedroom. And NO Panshin for me.

SAcademy: Haven't had royalty reports yet.

ddavitt: I don't want to be a Luddite..but I love books and the older the better

ddavitt: Though a new book is very nice too; being the first to read it is a special feeling

DennnEditor: Theoretically, publishiing online for a fee is a way to bypass book publishers, who act as middle men. More of sales go to the writer.

Paradis402: Really?

ddavitt: But wondering who else read one that's over a hundred years old is fascinating

KultsiKN: I do a lot of reading on computer, but I don't really like it.

SAcademy: Books will continue to be around, Jane.

DennnEditor: But I suspect that publishes play a more important role in promoting a book than most people realize

ddavitt: It should be cheaper I suppose as less overheads

ddavitt: And it does save paper

DennnEditor: I also love the smell and feel of books.

DennnEditor: Jane, paper is a renewable resource

ddavitt: Which, as I keep telling Eleanor, doesn't grow on trees

DennnEditor: boo

SAcademy: Remember, Neil's Pulpless books failed.

ddavitt: Only if people repalnt

ddavitt: replant

DennnEditor: I hate bad puns that I didn't use first

ddavitt: Was he ahead of his time?

ddavitt: Need more people with the ability to download to portable readers

DennnEditor: If I didn't have to go to bookstores, I would never leave the house

ddavitt: You just can't read on a static computer all the time.

ddavitt: That's why i couldn't watch a DVD on a computer

DennnEditor: ... and besides, I love sipping overpriced coffee and eating muffins at the B&N.

ddavitt: Want a comfy sofa, company, not squahed up against the screen

ddavitt: My spelling is wild tonight

ddavitt: I meant squashed

SAcademy: The scroll on this machine jams every so often.

ddavitt: I want to get locked in a book with a coffee shop in it and those nice chairs

Paradis402: Kultsi, do you like eBooks?

SAcademy: Heinlein books anyway.

KultsiKN: Never tried, but as I said I read a _lot_ on PC.

SAcademy: AD.

KultsiKN: And don't like it very much.

DennnEditor: <---- fell asleep in the library once because of very nice chair. I hope no friends saw me and thought I was homeless.

ddavitt: Someone said it's harder to process the words on a screen?

DennnEditor: It depends on the contrast/layout/other distractions.

ddavitt: It just wouldn't feel as if I owned it if it was a file on my computer instead of a volume on my shelves

KultsiKN: I think there is something to that. I utterly dislike the man pages on *nix systems.

ddavitt: Where is the aesthetic pleasure?

ddavitt: Suppose your computer crashed? <gulp>

DennnEditor: Right. every book I buy and read is placed on a shelf for visitors to see. It shows how well-read I am.

DennnEditor: Correct Jane.

DennnEditor: I lost HUNDREDS of books in a flood.

ddavitt: The library is the first room as you come in. people stop and say, "oh, what a lot of books. Have you read them all?"

DennnEditor: most of my PJFarmer, ERBurroughs.

ddavitt: I am running out of polite replies

ddavitt: That is a tragedy

ddavitt: I dread that or a fire

SAcademy: We gave away aabout 10,000 books when we left Bonny Doon.

ddavitt: Let me know if you have a wants list and I'll keep an eye out for you

DennnEditor: I could never give away books. I am always rereading them

ddavitt: Fiction or non fiction Ginny?

Paradis402: I've put 10 tons of my scientific stuff on Disk but I like my Heinlein to be real and in my hands.

SAcademy: Both Jane.

ddavitt: Non fiction is good online because it is searchable which would be handy

ddavitt: That must have hurt...

DennnEditor: No wants list. I just haunt Peoria's six or seven used book stores.

ddavitt: Well, if you ever get down to one you can't find let me know

DennnEditor: It gets worse ... I lost all my *comic books* ...

SAcademy: An encyclopedia of Magic, and my treasured book f Scandinavian design.

ddavitt: Try the charity shops; I get lots from there

ddavitt: Like in NOTB...

ddavitt: Just no room for hem Ginny?

ddavitt: them

SAcademy: I can't read anymore so it shouldn't matter.

DennnEditor: charity shops usually have only Old readers Digest condensed fiction.

ddavitt: You can still hold them

SAcademy: That's right.

ddavitt: have a poor class of thrift shops then

DennnEditor: Books also make great soundproofing when up an a bookshelf.

ddavitt: I got a first edition Elsie Oxenham once...

ddavitt: What a find.

SAcademy: Who is she?

DennnEditor: ... of Peorians tend to snap up all the good books. (This must be true because I can rarely find Heinlein stuff ... ;-)

ddavitt: (very collectable childrens author)

ddavitt: Wrote in 1920's 30's

DennnEditor: "or Peorians tend ... "

DennnEditor: silly typos

ddavitt: Lots of camp fire books, school stories. Most famous were the Abbey Girls stories

SAcademy: What was it Peanuts said "silly jumpropes?

DennnEditor: I once found a dollar bill in a used book ... it was being used as a bookmark, apparently.

DennnEditor: Probably Mrs. H.

ddavitt: Showed proper respect for the book

ddavitt: My bugbear is people writing in them

DennnEditor: It showed that it pays to read.

ddavitt: Once, they wrote (in ink) 'This is the murderer!!" next to a name of a character. <sigh>

DennnEditor: grrrr

Paradis402: :-D

SAcademy: You must have encountered some uninteresting marginal notes!

DennnEditor: ... a case for justifiable homicide, IMHO

ddavitt: And the people who take it upon themselves to correct grammar ( invairiably wrong themselves) should be sent somewhere...special.

KultsiKN: Critics' lounge?

ddavitt: That'll do nicely:-)

SAcademy: Guess I'm exempt--I majored in chemistry.

ddavitt: You're safe then <g>

SAcademy: Thank you.

ddavitt: Well, I can't think of more to say on the topic <gasp of amazement; jane is speechless>

DennnEditor: Used books are great when you want a complete collection and a book is out of print.

ddavitt: So I may go and eat

ddavitt: Yes; and now I can see all the ones online that I can't afford to buy

ddavitt: But one day...

DennnEditor: I am still looking for a copy of "Rocketship Galileo (sp?)

ddavitt: I have got some that I never thought I would ever own

DennnEditor: copy

ddavitt: First ed?

Paradis402: OT, Jane do you want me to send you an e-copy of the log too?

DennnEditor: no, no. paperback would be fine.

DennnEditor: I found "Space Cadet" several months ago ... which I had never read before.

ddavitt: No, I'll read it on Dave's page, no need to bother. Thanks anyway.

SAcademy: Have you tried eBaY?

DennnEditor: It was great! New Heinlein mamerial!

ddavitt: Oh well I'll watch out for it

ddavitt: Or the Heinlein bookswap page; is that still going?

ddavitt: Don ran that

Paradis402: What is mammerial. Freudian?

SAcademy: You just want a reading copy?

ddavitt: But he hasn't been around for months

DennnEditor: I think I have. I may give it a try. I still haven't given up on finding it used, though.

DennnEditor: God, I am soooo cheap.

ddavitt: Is it on Amazon? Is it in print?

DennnEditor: Well, I want one what will look OK on my shelf. I'll probably breat down and order a copy somewhere.

ddavitt: If so, they list used copies too

DennnEditor: break

ddavitt: And the prices

ddavitt: david is saying it's time to eat so I will vanish; see you all soon.

DennnEditor: I find the idea of fighting Nazis on the Moon to be priceless.

ddavitt: Hope you can make it for the Crais chat

ddavitt: Night.

DennnEditor: I am going to leave too.

ddavitt has left the room.

SAcademy: Bye Jane

DennnEditor: I'll stop back in later see if anyone else has come in.

DennnEditor: talk to you all at a later date.

SAcademy: Bye now.

Paradis402: What's up, Kultsi?

DennnEditor has left the room.

SAcademy: Good that people leave when they say they will. I hate people who stand in the doorway talking.

Paradis402: I agree.

KultsiKN: Nothing special, really -- trying to survive the winter :-)

SAcademy: Snowy always tries to escape.

SAcademy: Is it a bad winter, Kultsi?

Paradis402: He is a snow Cat.

KultsiKN: Going up and down like a yo-yo, not very nice.

KultsiKN: One day rain, next day snow with wind.

SAcademy: A lot of snow?

SAcademy: Buffalo really got it this year!

KultsiKN: Very little here; more ice.

SAcademy: Several feet of snow!

KultsiKN: Our weather is mostly -- moderate.

SAcademy: That might be good for skating, but I was a hothouse flower.

SAcademy: Liked indoor ice.

SAcademy: Funny, I would have thought it would be a continental climate. More like Buffalo.

SAcademy: Helsinki is pretty far north.

KultsiKN: More to the East it is.

KultsiKN: I mean like Moscow.

SAcademy: I see, the water nearby tempers the weather.

Paradis402: Like Vancouver?

SAcademy: Moscow must be horrid in winter!

SAcademy: The San Juan Islands.

KultsiKN: Is there a time when it isn't?

SAcademy: No, you're right about that. Ever go there?

KultsiKN: Just passing through once.

SAcademy: The San Juans are what they call a "banana belt"

Paradis402: Where are they, Ginny?

SAcademy: We nearly froze on May Day.

SAcademy: Straits of Juan de Fuca.

Paradis402: :'(

SAcademy: The Canadian and American islands between the mainland and Vancouver.

Paradis402: Thanks. I'm going brain dead or Alzie.

SAcademy: Alzheimers is no laughing mattteer.

Paradis402: So Spider switched oceans.

KultsiKN: Oh, that's no biggie; once diagnosed you can go home and forget all about it...

SAcademy: Yes, he did. Nova Scotia is far worse in climate!

Paradis402: Yes/ I just need more RAM Kultsi. Maybe more Disk space.

SAcademy: What about the manic phases, Kultsi?

KultsiKN: Well, actually, they are not nice at all, the diseases, that is.

SAcademy: A friend of mine just found out his mother had it. She was manic for days.

KultsiKN: It's a terrible strain on all close by, just to watch someone fading away.

SAcademy: Yes. I see it all the time here.

SAcademy: Fon't let anyone ever tell you that a "retirement community" is a good place to live.

SAcademy: Don't

SAcademy: It's very depressing to see.

KultsiKN: I can imagine.

SAcademy: I wish I had thought of that before I came here.

SAcademy: It's only my friends outside who keep my spirits up.

SAcademy: That and work.

Paradis402: Ginny, it's everywhere. You have to focus on the beautiful like your little white lion.

SAcademy: He's part of my young friends outside!

Paradis402: Indeed. He is.

SAcademy: Thank you Denis. I guess it's time I quit for the day.

Paradis402: I guess no one else will show. Maybe we should close and send the log to David.

KultsiKN: Yeah, me too! Must wake up early.

Paradis402: Nice talking to you Kultsi.

SAcademy: What time is it there Kultsi?

KultsiKN: Nice talking to you, too!

KultsiKN: Quarter past one, AM.

SAcademy: Ouch. Get some sleep!

SAcademy: Bye all.

SAcademy has left the room.

Paradis402: Bye Ginny.

KultsiKN: I'll do. Bye.

Paradis402: Bye Kultsi

KultsiKN: Bye, take care.

KultsiKN has left the room.

Final End Of Discussion Log

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