Heinlein Reader’s Discussion Group
Saturday 12-14-02 5:00 P.M. EST
Red Planet Back to School, Part III
Here Begins The Discussion Log
You have just entered room “Heinlein Readers Group chat.”
AGplusone has entered the room.
AGplusone: Ha! Remembered the name this time.
AGplusone: afk and brb
AGplusone: b
AGplusone: Yawn.
AGplusone: Yawn, yawn, and yawn.
AGplusone: And also yawn!
AGplusone: Yawn!
AGplusone: And then of course, there’s yawn!
AGplusone: :-):-(:-P;-)=-O:-*8-)>:o:-D:-$:-!
AGplusone: :-[O:-):-\:'(:-X
SimonMycroftxxx has entered the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: Hi there
AGplusone: The Heinlein Society Website
AGplusone: Hi, Simon. How’s it going?
SimonMycroftxxx: OK. and you?
AGplusone: I’m sitting here . . . looking around . . . I think Dave is off outside. I’m fine.
SimonMycroftxxx: Dave the elder? Off on the Lanai, or elsewhere?
AGplusone: How’d you get triple x ?
AGplusone: Yes. He sometimes takes his wife shopping on Saturday, just logs.
AGplusone: SimonMycroftxxx = Simon Jester?
SimonMycroftxxx: XXX … from the book; whenever Mannie (et al) wanted a secure connection.
SimonMycroftxxx: Oh yeah.
AGplusone: Mychelle is available as well, I suppose.
SimonMycroftxxx: transvestism … that’s a very big word..
AGplusone: Wyoh was sure Mike was a girl.
SimonMycroftxxx:MychelleYY
SimonMycroftxxx: OK, so I’m a fake 😉 …
AGplusone: 🙂
AGplusone: I keep Ag+1 rather than go to another name because that’s the one I started with. When AOL insisted its “Hosts” use other names I used “Zim” …
SimonMycroftxxx: Been a while since Jane Davitt posted to afh … heard anything?
AGplusone: Nothing from her at all. Except she’s evidently happy being a Buffy fan.
AGplusone: Writing Buffy stories over there I’ve heard.
AGplusone: alf.fan.buffy or something
SimonMycroftxxx: I oughter start p/e/s/t/e/r/i/n/g posting to a buffy group or two…
AGplusone: Naw. I’d be unable to resist turning out porn stories if I went there …
SimonMycroftxxx: LOL
AGplusone: so I stay far away!
AGplusone: Sarah Michelle is a pretty girl. Not bad for what, 30+ now?
SimonMycroftxxx: All those penetrating fangs, Stakes plunging into soft flesh…
SimonMycroftxxx:cold water
SimonMycroftxxx: BBBRRRRR!!!!
AGplusone: Right. Read an article once saying that the reason gurls loved Buffy is it was a non-threatening substitute for sexuality.
SimonMycroftxxx: And Boiz?
AGplusone: I never quite keep up on Boiz.
AGplusone: Never was one.
SimonMycroftxxx: ?!?
AGplusone: They didn’t have them in the 50s, doncha know.
SimonMycroftxxx: Aaahhh…
SimonMycroftxxx: (Mind you, isn’t Ms. Trachtenberg circa 16 yrs old?)
AGplusone: Now James Madison Marlowe … a 50s boy? [not sure who Trachtenberg is — a Buffy actress?]
SimonMycroftxxx: (re: SMG’s age…)
SimonMycroftxxx: Michelle Trahctenberg … the actress who plays Dawn (Buffy’s sister)
SimonMycroftxxx: who’s JMM?
AGplusone: Oh, yeah. Buffy’s ultimate replacement.
AGplusone: JMM is the lead juvenile in Red Planet that we are discussing today
SimonMycroftxxx: D’oh! I re-read it the other day, too…
AGplusone: First juvenile where RAH started up playing with names again.
AGplusone: Marquis Howe?
SimonMycroftxxx: BTW, who was the Tish in the dedication?
SimonMycroftxxx: Marquis – Marcus? Howe?
Randyjj55 has entered the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: Hi, Randy
Randyjj55: Aternoon/Evening, gentlemen
AGplusone: Hi, Randy. Simon, have you met ?
Randyjj55: Not sure, depending upon the person behind the nick…
AGplusone: I think Dave is shopping with the spousal overlord unit
Randyjj55: Thank goodness we got all that stuff done some time ago, here.
SimonMycroftxxx: I post as “Simon Jester”, Randy.
Randyjj55: Okay, I do recognize that nickname on AFH
AGplusone: Rather hard to justify naming a kid “Marquis” unless you think you’re doing him a favor.
AGplusone: Marquis Howe is the full name of the new Headmaster.
SimonMycroftxxx: …unless you’re an author…
SimonMycroftxxx: Yep, remember that bit…
Randyjj55: Well, we plebians just don’t have the proper perspective, no doubt.
AGplusone: Unless you make all your characters call him “Markie” . . . as the Resident Agent does.
AGplusone: Or worse, “Stinky” as the boys do.
SimonMycroftxxx: “Marcus” means “warlike” – derived from Mars…
SimonMycroftxxx: Not so sure about Marquis, though.
KultsiKN has entered the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: Possibly DeSade-related?
AGplusone: That is true. Heinlein playing again with games … Yo, Kultsi …
Randyjj55: Hi phrozen phin! 🙂
KultsiKN: Hello, folks!
SimonMycroftxxx: Hi, Kultsi!
AGplusone: er, “names” …
SimonMycroftxxx: or even name-games…
KultsiKN: Dividing my attention between you and pixel…
SimonMycroftxxx: Teresa?
SimonMycroftxxx: What’s she doing to you?
SimonMycroftxxx: 😉
Randyjj55: Well, there are many ways one can be warlike – one can also war against manners and culture, as well as countries.
AGplusone: or reindeer games (I had to watch one of the Xmas cartoons on the tube last night … the Burl Ives one. How come I don’t remember MONSTERS in the song?)
Randyjj55: Kultsi, tell pixelmeow to drop on in for a while.
pixelmeow has entered the room.
pixelmeow: hey!!!
AGplusone: Howe wants to make it a military school. Immediately institutes “junk on the bunk” diagrams, etc. Hi, Pix
SimonMycroftxxx: I had wondered whether this was another round in RAH’s ongoing campaign against his editor…
Randyjj55: Speak of the … er …. angel!
SimonMycroftxxx: Hi Pix!
DavidWrightSr: Hi Everybody. I’m back.
pixelmeow: ROFL!!
AGplusone: Good ol’ Warlike Marquis (Marcus) (Mars) Howe.
SimonMycroftxxx: Hi Dave.
Randyjj55: Hi Dave W!
AGplusone: Hi, Dave. Small but cerce today, so far.
AGplusone: cherce?
DavidWrightSr: Dinner was spoiled. so we had to go get something.
pixelmeow: cherce? what’s that?
SimonMycroftxxx: Incidentally, Kultsi, I came across the name “Kullervo” in a book on Northern Mythology a little while back.
SimonMycroftxxx: Is Kullervo a common name in Finland?
AGplusone: Old movies, Pix.
pixelmeow: Ah.
AGplusone: “choice” meaning good
KultsiKN: It’s not really common, but there are some of us.
pixelmeow: I’m trying to recall the plot of the book, could I have a reminder?
Randyjj55: But …. I thought there could be only one?????
AGplusone: Katherine Hepburn’s buddy used to pronounce it that way … I’m blanking on his name.
Randyjj55: Spencer Tracy?
pixelmeow: that’s him.
SimonMycroftxxx: Jim, Frank and Willis (the bouncer) go to college…
pixelmeow: AHA!!!
pixelmeow: Got it.
AGplusone: Boy lives on Mars. Has pet named Willis, like R2D2 but flesh and blood, goes to school.
pixelmeow: Thanks!!!
pixelmeow: Big bad school master.
pixelmeow: Long distant skating.
SimonMycroftxxx: Ver’ ver’ bad….
pixelmeow: Elders.
pixelmeow: so what are we talking about now?
AGplusone: Named Marquis Howe … called “Markie” by the bad guys and “Stinky” by the students.
SimonMycroftxxx: Will Jackie be joining us? 🙂
AGplusone: Marquis Howe and Heinlein’s name-games again.
Randyjj55: Dogs and cats, mating in the streets ….. Oh, wait! That’s another thing….
pixelmeow: ROFL!!!
AGplusone: I hope so … haven’t seen her.
AGplusone: wb, DtheE
SimonMycroftxxx: wb!
pixelmeow: got problems, DE???
DavidWrightSr: I got kicked out of the room for some reason. Had to restart AIM
pixelmeow: damn, that’s a bright green!
pixelmeow: hurts my eyes…
AGplusone: Green?
SimonMycroftxxx: IE?
pixelmeow: any way to change that? DtE’s name is that bright cyan color.
SimonMycroftxxx: Opera?
SimonMycroftxxx: or wot?
pixelmeow: uh, I’m on aim on winxp pro…
AGplusone: All you guys are bright blue. I’m red.
pixelmeow: many thanks to Steve and Jim…
Randyjj55: Well, not at the moment, but I was. I’m pretty much a live and let live sort. Been hanging around many years, and haven’t caused too much trouble yet.
SimonMycroftxxx: I’m using Win98
pixelmeow: I’m red, DtY is sorta khaki colored, Simon is pink
SimonMycroftxxx: and no bright green…
pixelmeow: Randy is gray
pixelmeow: well, maybe it’s that outdated os…
pixelmeow: *run*
DavidWrightSr: Colors are assigned by AIM I think, and your own will always be in red, but the others appear to be at random
Randyjj55: Win98? Is that the new successor to winXP? 🙂
SimonMycroftxxx: DtE is bright cyan.
AGplusone: Everyone’s typing in black, except you, Pix. You’re bright blue.
SimonMycroftxxx: oughtter be a dead duck…
pixelmeow: Yes, my typing is blue, so I can see it well.
Randyjj55: Actually, it depends on how you have your AIM set up.
DavidWrightSr: Simon is yellow to me. pixel is brown randy is light grey and AG is bright blue-green
pixelmeow: Now don’t you guys make me start ruining keyboards!
AGplusone: Like this?
pixelmeow: Lemme look.
SimonMycroftxxx: Everyone except DtE is fairly dark
pixelmeow: Yes!
Randyjj55: I’m light grey? I always fancied myself as an autumn….
DavidWrightSr: That’s the nice things about the archives. It loses all these colors.
AGplusone: How’s your son doing at Knox?
pixelmeow: I see nowhere to change the color of the screen names.
AGplusone: There is nowhere.
Randyjj55: Graduates next Thursday. We’re heading out Wednesday to go pick him up and bring him home for leave.
DavidWrightSr: I don’t think that you can.
pixelmeow: Congrats!
pixelmeow: Figures…
AGplusone: On some versions you get a red and blue, others assign colors arbitrarily.
KultsiKN: The name colors are taken from a list, I think.
DavidWrightSr: did my color change from the original to when I came back in?
AGplusone: AOL ‘snazziness’ which is a PITA.
AGplusone: My version just makes everyone except me Blue.
KultsiKN: Yes, the color of your name did.
pixelmeow: It was blue like my writing.
AGplusone: Blue = good guys; while I’m Red = Enemy.
pixelmeow: hey, I’m red…
SimonMycroftxxx: Uh oh, i’m red…
KultsiKN: No, Silver, you’re green.
KultsiKN: Nice shade.
SimonMycroftxxx: Been a while since anyone said that to DtY!
SimonMycroftxxx: Quack.
AGplusone: So back to Marquis Howe … [the beautiful color of dead presidents] … how would Howe ever be a marquis except by accident of birth.
SimonMycroftxxx: How would any marquis?
Randyjj55: Don’t be embarrassed, Pix….
SimonMycroftxxx: Or even, Howe would any marquis?
AGplusone: As Doc MacRae said, the “non-profit” running Mars runs on “you kiss me,” and we graft together.
AGplusone: After all we all put in a full days work for the company, that leaves 18 hours a day for us!
AGplusone: Mars rotation? 24 earth hours or close enough?
KultsiKN: From NOTB — fairly close?
SimonMycroftxxx: Could google for it…
pixelmeow: sorry, girls running around.
AGplusone: So at least we’re down to the 6 hour day (another great advance for mankind) … whatever happened to the eight hour day.
AGplusone: I liked the “girls are dyeing their hair in stripes” passage.
SimonMycroftxxx: According to http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/kids_space/period.html,
SimonMycroftxxx: it takes 24.6229 hours
pixelmeow: back in a few…
pixelmeow has left the room.
AGplusone: Close enough.
SimonMycroftxxx: cya
SimonMycroftxxx: pix
AGplusone: I’ve been looking for an old illustration showing the “canals” …
DavidWrightSr: They were in the front cover of the original edition that I read way back then, but haven’t seen them since
SimonMycroftxxx: No illustrations in my Pan paperback.
KultsiKN: Not even wegrokit?
SimonMycroftxxx: (Except the cover – looks like colonials dusting a waterseeker) You have just entered room “Heinlein Readers Group chat.”
KultsiKN: WB, DWS
SimonMycroftxxx: There are some v. simple drawings at http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf057/sf057a05.htm
DavidWrightSr: Weird things are going on
SimonMycroftxxx: wb!
KultsiKN: Uhhh.. light yellow this time!
DavidWrightSr: Interesting Simon has changed color to a light grey.
DavidWrightSr: And I am showing up as yellow to you?
SimonMycroftxxx: Yup
Randyjj55: There is a picture of Lowell’s Drawings of the canals at http://ltpwww.gsfc.nasa.gov/tharsis/canals.html
AGplusone: I recognize some of the names. That Lowell map is helpful, and I have a hunch that, with some of the canals named, that was what I dimly recall from the original flys of the hardbound.
AGplusone: That’s even better.
AGplusone: When the two boys travel, I sort of want to follow along on the Map.
Randyjj55: Yes, that’s the fun thing about a “fictional” or author’s universe – seeing the pictures in your mind and converting/mapping them to the “real” world.
Randyjj55: Are you getting hit with weather out there David? Wx map looks like CA is taking some.
DavidWrightSr: I don’t recognize any of the names on the map, but then it’s very hard to read.
AGplusone: Hasn’t gotten down here yet, but up in San Francisco this week, Bill tells me everyone was looking like a drowned rat.
SimonMycroftxxx: Bill P?
AGplusone: It’s just overcast. We’re supposed to get whatever we get this weekend, tho. Yes, Bill P
Randyjj55: Yes, those mars geographers are a short sighted lot…
SimonMycroftxxx:Areographers?
SimonMycroftxxx: 😉
AGplusone: Areograhy
AGplusone: p
SimonMycroftxxx: Anyone else intending to make it?
AGplusone: We had some comment that the plot in Red Planet is rather simple minded Thursday, anyone care to comment on that.
Randyjj55: Anyone ever consider the last question of the book? What becomes of Willis?
pixelmeow has entered the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: (here?)
pixelmeow: back.
AGplusone: Not lately, randy
SimonMycroftxxx: Hi!
AGplusone: Don’t know, Simon. ‘spect so
KultsiKN has left the room.
AGplusone: had a couple ask directions, etc.
Randyjj55: Somehow I got the impression that having a bouncer for a pet was rather rare. So, would Willis be a Valentine in reverse?
SimonMycroftxxx: Also — what relation are the Martians in RP to those in SiaSL?
SimonMycroftxxx: (Synchronicity?)
AGplusone: I think they meld in nicely …
Randyjj55: The Police?
SimonMycroftxxx: De do do do, de da da da…
DavidWrightSr: On the surface, they appear to be the same, nymphs, martians, old ones, other world etc
AGplusone: But, you know, we never really ‘see” Martians in SiaSL. Just Michael’s perceptions of them …
Randyjj55: Maybe just a slight variation between the two worlds – like world without a “J”.
KultsiKN has entered the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: But the description of the Martian adults in RP does not match with SiaSL…
AGplusone: like the view that Jim gets from Willis’ memory, likely distorted.
KultsiKN: DUH!
DavidWrightSr: True, but Heinlein relied a lot on us filling in the gaps and it seems natural to assume that they are the same
AGplusone: What description?
pixelmeow: get booted?
KultsiKN: Yup.
SimonMycroftxxx: Can’t remember precise words…
DavidWrightSr: or similar
SimonMycroftxxx: In RP, adults are described as roughly manlike, tall, angular…
AGplusone: fer example: where exactly in SiaSL are they really described? We get recollections of them.
Randyjj55: I thought there was a brief description of one “sailing” into the passage where the Martian met up with the Xenophobe.
SimonMycroftxxx: In SiaSL, are described as sort of Terrestrial (Arial?) centipedes crossed with busses…
SimonMycroftxxx: There are descriptions of the Martian version of “Love” compared with Earth.
AGplusone: Tripod legs, tripod hands, really tall … except when they withdraw . . . then they look like a ball with the hand flaps coverig everything except the backbone.
SimonMycroftxxx: (in SiaSL)
Randyjj55: I have to finish getting my Heinlein all crossreferenced and linked together in text files….
DavidWrightSr: That was going to be my retirement project, (If I am ever able to retire) 🙂
AGplusone: Gekko, for exampl, is nine feet tall I think.
Randyjj55: This is why we need a searchable CD or set of files. I’m about half done with my “package”.
DavidWrightSr: Yep. that’s it exactly.
AGplusone: Has three eyes … has to move Jim about so all three eyes can see him. Liquid eyes.
TreetopAngelRN2 has entered the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: Hi E!
pixelmeow: hey, E!!!
KultsiKN: Hi, E!
AGplusone: Hi, E! I think we’ll be putting something like that together soon Randy.
TreetopAngelRN2:Morning!
AGplusone: for research if nothing else.
Randyjj55: Notice that on page 34 there is also a description of a “disappearance” apparently caused by the martian, same as described in SiaSL.
pixelmeow: No, it’s Evening
AGplusone: Pretty nearly same.
SimonMycroftxxx: (To E!) COFFEE.
KultsiKN: No, it’s Very Early Morning.
AGplusone: Medical officer …
TreetopAngelRN2: Lots o coffee
pixelmeow: here you go. Watch out, it’s hot…
TreetopAngelRN2: tanks!
Randyjj55: I guess it’s all a matter of perspective …. time is what it is when you look out the window…
SimonMycroftxxx: Na zdravoye. (sp?)
AGplusone: But there was nothing about the colonists offending the Martians so much they “withdrew” ….
Randyjj55: Tanks? That’s a lot of coffee….
TreetopAngelRN2: just woke up, need lots
Randyjj55: Coming off shift or going on?
SimonMycroftxxx: COFFEE COFFEE COFFEE COFFEE COFFEE
SimonMycroftxxx: 😉
TreetopAngelRN2: Going on soon
Randyjj55: Spam Spam Spam Spam ……….
pixelmeow: Randy, I *told* you about the keyboards!@!!!!
pixelmeow: I’ll make *you* clean them!!!
KultsiKN: Finland, Finland,Finland…
SimonMycroftxxx: Who let those Vikings in?
Randyjj55: Sorry! I’ll up the board to 1000 times ……
pixelmeow: 😛 all of you.
Randyjj55: I will not annoy the cat ….
AGplusone: I always wanted a “singing sword” … speaking of which, there’s one in Operation Luna.
pixelmeow: yeah?
TreetopAngelRN2: O:-)
AGplusone: Yeah. Forged by a Viking dwarf blacksmith.
Randyjj55: Almost looks like a little nurse’s cap E. Of course if I used that smiley, it would indicate a hole in my head.
TreetopAngelRN2: Looks like Pixel is the proud owner of the “Lord Darcy.”
pixelmeow: Hard to imagine a Dwarf Viking…
Randyjj55: Kind of like Jumbo Shrimp….
pixelmeow: Yeah!
TreetopAngelRN2: KEYBOARD!
AGplusone: I always wanted to know whether the ‘dwarfs’ were the original inhabitants … or captured Finns.
Copycat669 has entered the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: mumbleSandi Toksvigmumble
Copycat669: hi all! I’m back!
pixelmeow: and now I have grape juice in my nose…
pixelmeow: thanks, E!!!
pixelmeow: Hi
pixelmeow: !
Randyjj55: Well, at least it won’t leave a stain ….
AGplusone: yo, CC
pixelmeow: but it *hurts*…
Copycat669: Gee, Pix, lemme guess who your favorite character is? 🙂
AGplusone: Concord grape juice does
KultsiKN: Hia, CC!
pixelmeow: no idea!
Copycat669: hi all!
pixelmeow: Once again I don’t know everyone..
AGplusone: I always figured Pix would be attracted to Petronius Arbiter
pixelmeow: I LOVE HIM!!!
AGplusone: but then I forget Pixel was a Tom
Randyjj55: Looks like we’re about to be able to have all the people we need for a musical – Cats!
pixelmeow: I’m the white cat.
pixelmeow: The one in the front. 😉
SimonMycroftxxx: CC?
SimonMycroftxxx: (Hiya)
KultsiKN: Nah, you’re blond 😛
pixelmeow: SO!!!
Copycat669: So…what are we chatting about?
AGplusone: blonde
pixelmeow: Red Planet.
Copycat669: Ah. Ok. More of last night’s chatting..
Randyjj55: But, how can a blonde be a Red-head planet?
TreetopAngelRN2: it turned goofy as soon as I got here.
KultsiKN: Blonde, with the French fem ending.
pixelmeow: well, what’d you expect???
TreetopAngelRN2: Bread and Circuses
Randyjj55: Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!!
pixelmeow: 😀
SimonMycroftxxx:”I DIDN’T SAY SHE WAS CHEATING ON ME WITH DONALD…”
pixelmeow: You are gonna *get* it.
TreetopAngelRN2: Too early for MP, can’t think fast enough
SimonMycroftxxx: (Re E!)
TreetopAngelRN2: LOL…got it….finally
Randyjj55: There’s always hope!
pixelmeow: So far, we have the two davids, E, kultsi, and that’s all I *know*.
pixelmeow: Is that Randy Jost?
Randyjj55: Yes
SimonMycroftxxx: + me!
pixelmeow: and Simon “Jester”?
pixelmeow: or who?
SimonMycroftxxx: Yup. 😉
pixelmeow: cool.
pixelmeow: So who is the copycat???
SimonMycroftxxx: 🙂
AGplusone: And CC … must introduce yourself, I suppose.
pixelmeow: I like knowing to whom I’m typing…
AGplusone: Tam from Yahoo Heinlein groups?
pixelmeow: so what did we decide about the Martians?
pixelmeow: Are they all related?
Randyjj55: Second cousins?
SimonMycroftxxx: Possibly via alternate universes?
pixelmeow: Something. It all seemed the same to *me*…
DavidWrightSr: Related, I think so, the same, Well, maybe. As I said he certainly used my previous reading of RP to fill in the gaps with when I read SIASL
TreetopAngelRN2: Gifford says they are the same Martians in SIASL.
Randyjj55: Quite possibly, but hard to tell due to a lack of detailed descriptions.
pixelmeow: yeah. KMurphy165 has entered the room.
pixelmeow: Hi@ KMurphy165: greetings, all
AGplusone: Yo, KMurphy.
SimonMycroftxxx: Howdy.
KultsiKN: Hi! KMurphy165: Long time no see um!
TreetopAngelRN2: Hello
pixelmeow: I don’t know your moniker… KMurphy165: What are we talking about today?
SimonMycroftxxx: Red Planet
Randyjj55: Does this book seem to be an amalgamation of some of the elements of Space Cadet, MiaHM, SiaSL and Double Star?
SimonMycroftxxx: Umm… Yes and no?
Randyjj55: There’s a definitive answer.
SimonMycroftxxx: Space cadet… young men progressing to maturity.
Randyjj55: We see Martians in SiaSL, Double Star and Between Planets.
SimonMycroftxxx: (also BP)
SimonMycroftxxx: (per RP)
DavidWrightSr: But they are all different in those three books or
Randyjj55: Actually, in Space Cadet, I was thinking about the episode on Venus, in misunderstanding of another culture by one character, with understanding growing in the other characters.
SimonMycroftxxx: MiaHM… rights for self determination?
TreetopAngelRN2: rebellion against overbearing authority
Copycat669: I imagined them as the SIASL martians.
DavidWrightSr: or at least so it seemed to me. In BP, they had pseudo-wings?, they were like tree trunks in DS and like what we have discussed in RP
pixelmeow: I agree with E.
pixelmeow: I saw much of it as just unreasonable authority of Howie
SimonMycroftxxx: That too.
pixelmeow: also the boys growing up…
pixelmeow: taking on responsibility…
SimonMycroftxxx: But what if the authority had been reasonable throughout?
pixelmeow: we wouldn’t have had a story?
SimonMycroftxxx: Would they have had the right to self-determination?
TreetopAngelRN2: RAH teaching when authority should be questioned
SimonMycroftxxx: (I think so.)
pixelmeow: I think it took the push of the authority figure.
TreetopAngelRN2: Paternal Earth Authority over pubescent colonial life
AGplusone: Always thought all the ‘authorities’ and ‘companies’ and whatevers ‘federations’ were pretty childish, actually.
TreetopAngelRN2: I saw my parents that way while I was growing up, too!
Randyjj55: One should always be willing to question. That’s how you learn and grow, but Authority doesn’t like that. Often, (not always) because the only answer it has is “Because”.
AGplusone: Howe for example acts like a petulant child. so does the Wart Hobart in MiaHM
AGplusone: Alvarez seems like a confused child most of the time
SimonMycroftxxx: Alvarez, ya.
AGplusone: Even the IBI “lieutenant” seems ‘childish’ in ways
AGplusone: in Between Planets which we read next. He’s distracted easily.
SimonMycroftxxx: I thought Mort the Wart acted more like a negligent parent.
TreetopAngelRN2: that’s because they are ‘gimme’ people and don’t want to have to work for it
AGplusone: Marquis by birth, as we did discuss?
AGplusone: put in a full day … then eighteen hours for ourselves.
SimonMycroftxxx: Not mentioned in the book?
AGplusone: Red Planet?
Randyjj55: Birth or decree, does it matter if it is not earned or recognized by others as being “right”?
SimonMycroftxxx: Surely like calling your kid “Duke” or “Earl”?
Randyjj55: or Duke of Earl
AGplusone: Howe is the nephew of the Chairman of the Board of the “Company”
AGplusone: sounds like born to the purple to me
SimonMycroftxxx: Dook dook dook dook of Earl…
TreetopAngelRN2: yes
Copycat669: i got the joke…
Copycat669: 🙂
TreetopAngelRN2: they all have the same thing in common “When I say jump…”
AGplusone: Kept thinking about Virginia colony when I read Red Planet. the Howe’s and the Pottles (Pot Holes)
AGplusone: look around for the ‘slaves’ to order around all the time
SimonMycroftxxx: Pot Holes? Virginia colony?
SimonMycroftxxx: Uh?
TreetopAngelRN2: Definitely
Randyjj55: Having the title is not the problem, nor is nepotism – The problem occurs when the person in the position of authority clearly shows thy are not fit to hold it, yet, there they are.
TreetopAngelRN2: It happens all the time
AGplusone: Well, what did they send to the colonies. Remittance men?
AGplusone: Some thrived. Most probably left early or starved.
AGplusone: How many did India chew up?
AGplusone: and spit out
SimonMycroftxxx: (Trying to think of a Roanoke pun)
AGplusone: not everyone came home with a bag of loot
AGplusone: When we had the Philippines, probably ditto …
TreetopAngelRN2: many of them were killed outright as idiots often are
Randyjj55: Put down the pun and no one gets hurt …..
AGplusone: lots of get rich quick schemers
SimonMycroftxxx: Enough of the Croatoan theology
AGplusone: all those guys in “imports” on the “Pacific Rim”
KultsiKN: Do we take ten?
Randyjj55: Yes, theology can often be hard to swallow – it gets stuck in your croat …
pixelmeow: I’m just lurking…
AGplusone: I think RAH used the last name Pottle with malice aforethought for that couple. “come dear!” zaaap! Now would be a good time. Until 45 past the hour?
AGplusone: Colonel, you have the Conn.
Randyjj55: Aye
TreetopAngelRN2: That’s why you have the towel on your head, Pix!
Randyjj55: Arghhh
pixelmeow: Ahem. I like paper bags, thanks.
KultsiKN: Goody! Gonna do a fillup on me single malt!
TreetopAngelRN2: LOL!
Randyjj55: I’ve always wanted a small northeastern state,
AGplusone: Speaking of the New Orleans Saints …
Randyjj55: Connecticut will do fine.
TreetopAngelRN2: what about the Saints?
AGplusone: Good coast line. Fine sheltered harbors. I hear Teach is operating well out of that area.
KultsiKN: They do go marchin’ in!
pixelmeow: and where did *that* topic come from…
TreetopAngelRN2: LOL
TreetopAngelRN2: Pirates!!!!
AGplusone: paper bags … back in the ‘ain’ts’ days
AGplusone: Well, Randy does have the Conn.
AGplusone: I’m below splicing the mainbrace in my cabin.
pixelmeow:
TreetopAngelRN2:
AGplusone: afk on a main brace splice run
TreetopAngelRN2: don’t worry Pix, I’m getting it….finally
SimonMycroftxxx: (Do that too often and you’ll be looking lost in broad daylight!)
pixelmeow: then that explains why I be losing it…
Randyjj55: I’ll have to go back to grading soon, but will hang around until I can pawn off Conn and Park Place, too.
pixelmeow: I do that a lot anyway…
pixelmeow: eh?
Randyjj55: Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most.
pixelmeow: does anyone in here remember that I am NATURALLY blonde?????
Randyjj55: Naturally!
TreetopAngelRN2: Yeah I miss your mind, too!
SimonMycroftxxx: Think ur the only 1? (giggle)
SimonMycroftxxx: (ahem)
pixelmeow: indeed.
pixelmeow: I’m just not functioning tonight…
TreetopAngelRN2: Thusrday night the cat stole my lighter, she still hasn’t returned it…
Randyjj55: Well, if you see it roamin’ around, shove it in a box and FedEx it back home where it belongs. It’s not fit to be seen in public.
KultsiKN: I don’t know about the ‘natural blondes’, but the checking is fun…
Randyjj55: That’s getting to be quite a problem – cats sneaking out for a smoke.
pixelmeow: E, I’m opening a new box of keyboards, we’re gonna need ’em
TreetopAngelRN2: most definitely
KultsiKN: Hope you’ve got a dozen.
Randyjj55: I hear Staples is having a sale.
pixelmeow: trucks down the road full of them, yes, I do.
TreetopAngelRN2: We’ve been getting them in by the pallet lately
pixelmeow: Got to,the way you people ruin them…
TreetopAngelRN2: and it’s not Monday morning yet, that’s my bad day for keyboards
KultsiKN: Speak only for yaself, tender kitten.
Randyjj55: I don’t believe “I’ve” been ejecting fluids out of my facial orifices onto your keyboard. How can you say it’s our fault.
pixelmeow: cause you made me do it!!!
TreetopAngelRN2: cuase you say punny things
KultsiKN: Phunny?
pixelmeow: that too…
TreetopAngelRN2: punny and funny KMurphy165: Duty calls, gots to go. Bye
AGplusone: “What are we doing off the coast of Conneticuit, Mr. Christain?” KMurphy165 has left the room.
Randyjj55: Sinking fast in the perfect storm if confusion.
KultsiKN: Bye… 2fast4me…
pixelmeow: k
pixelmeow: later!
TreetopAngelRN2: spying on cats smoking with stolen lighters
AGplusone: bye
Randyjj55: You’d think if those cats could get there own cigarettes, they’d buy there own lighters.
AGplusone: by rights sir you should put me in a long boat now … so I can navigate to Australia …
TreetopAngelRN2: I’m pretty sure she has nicked some smokes too!
AGplusone: but then you’d have to go to Pitcairn Island
Randyjj55: But, by lefts, we’ll keep you in charge. I relinquish the helm, Mr. Silver.
TreetopAngelRN2: what’s left at Pitcairn these days?
AGplusone: Darn! Hoisted again.
Randyjj55: On your own petard.
AGplusone: Not much I hear. About as bad as Tierra de Fuqua
AGplusone: No, on the flag hoist
AGplusone: instead of the Jolly Roger
TreetopAngelRN2: 15 minutes…
AGplusone: Do you all know how Willis came to be?
pixelmeow: No, how?
TreetopAngelRN2: do you mean how Jim found him?
Randyjj55: Well, when the mommy martian and the daddy martian love each other very much ….
TreetopAngelRN2: LOL
Copycat669: hehehehehe
AGplusone: Vague story from various sources: Robert had one of those round top wire tape recorders. Supposedly left it on one day by accident.
Copycat669: how exactly do mommy martians and daddy martians love each other?
pixelmeow: ewwww
AGplusone: Six ways from the middle …
pixelmeow: grooooossss
KultsiKN: LOL
TreetopAngelRN2: and he got a great story out of it
AGplusone: Found himself with a recording of some couple hours of social conversation … gossip no doubt, etc.
AGplusone: And there you have it: Willis was born!
TreetopAngelRN2: just like you don’t say anything you don’t want repeated around toddlers
Copycat669: and that’s where the idea came from ? Oh I SEE!
TreetopAngelRN2: Cool!
TreetopAngelRN2: 10
Randyjj55: Well, it’s clear from the story that Willis is more than just a fuzzy parrot. His abilities to get around and adapt to the situation imply that he is operating on more than instinct. More like a child, which is what he is.
AGplusone: If you ever saw one of those recorders on their little stand, you might think it looks a little like R2D2, early model.
AGplusone: On stalks of course.
KultsiKN: Wire recorders? I fixed one for a friend.
SimonMycroftxxx: R2D2 in stilletoes? (Boggle)
Randyjj55: And why does he want to listen to a wire singing?
AGplusone: These were about the size of hemispherical basketballs
TreetopAngelRN2: never seen one!
AGplusone: Kind of lumpy looking. Not exact hemis, but close.
AGplusone: About 1959 I worked in an office where we had about 100 typists just clattering away with them.
TreetopAngelRN2: ah, ’59, I don’t remember it well
AGplusone: That was back when the typewriters were made of stone.
TreetopAngelRN2: LOL
Randyjj55: And liquid paper was a hammer?
AGplusone: And a cold chisel
KultsiKN: So cold it froze your fingers
SimonMycroftxxx: BTW: CC – Colin Campbell?
pixelmeow: ya think?
SimonMycroftxxx: CC? Wassay?
AGplusone: When this was written basketballs still had leather stitching in the center, like footballs. Interesting bounces if you dribbled it on the wrong side.
TreetopAngelRN2: hmmm
TreetopAngelRN2: 5
pixelmeow: 5 what?
AGplusone: John Wooden was playing basketball, not the kindly elderly gentleman they trot out to give awards.
TreetopAngelRN2: minutes to lift off
Randyjj55: Looks like an E countdown.
pixelmeow: ah. 🙁
pixelmeow: and I’m sitting here falling asleep…
AGplusone: Maybe she’s getting ready like Kramdon to send us to the Moon.
TreetopAngelRN2: the time when my butt leaves the chair and I run around like a madwoman then go to work
KultsiKN: With Dave telling a yarn? Falling asleep?
AGplusone: Dave is falling asleep
TreetopAngelRN2: It’s peaceful on the lanai
KultsiKN: Nope. Pixel.
TreetopAngelRN2: I have to go guys and gals…have fun!
SimonMycroftxxx: CYA!
Randyjj55: Have a good shift/
AGplusone: bye E
TreetopAngelRN2: Good Night!
TreetopAngelRN2 has left the room.
KultsiKN: E! That was 5 secs, not 5 mins! Bye , E!
AGplusone: Ever notice one thing about the juvenile revolution stories?
Randyjj55: Just one?
SimonMycroftxxx: Not juvenile?
AGplusone: Always a deus ex machina at the end … which makes MiaHM a juvenile too.
SimonMycroftxxx: At the end?
Randyjj55: I guess that technically, MiaHM would be a machina ex machina
SimonMycroftxxx: Surely the Deus ex’ed the machina fairly early on?
SimonMycroftxxx: Or do you mean Mike’s exit?
AGplusone: Had occasion to read that short story … about revolution: the one with the Barkley Free Company or whatever it was called ….
Randyjj55: And it’s a good thing that the computer was not named Jack.
AGplusone: but the revolution is won by DEM … whether it exists or not earlier.
AGplusone: won quick
Randyjj55: Otherwise, we’d have a Jack ex machina
AGplusone: The “Stone Pillow” precursor … “the Poles had to wait 300 years” is one quote from it.
SimonMycroftxxx: Not sure I’d agree…
AGplusone: “Solution Unsatisfactory” is that the one? I’m trying to recall.
SimonMycroftxxx: The “war” is over relatively quickly…
SimonMycroftxxx: but there’s a lot of preparation.
AGplusone: Without Mike, bye and bye we all get hungry.
SimonMycroftxxx: True.
SimonMycroftxxx: Still –
AGplusone: Without Geeko, same difference
SimonMycroftxxx: without little boy and fat boy, a lot of allied troops would have died in Japan.
AGplusone: Without Isaac Newton, etc., Between Planets goes on and on in the swamps forever
SimonMycroftxxx: (Suppose end of WWII could be DEM.)
AGplusone: No outside help for the Poles, no Deus Ex Machina either. 300 years until their brief country established in 1920
KultsiKN: If you spell out the ‘D’ as ‘Devil’
AGplusone: could be
Copycat669 has left the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: Bye CC (whoever you were….)
AGplusone: So why does RAH soft peddle revolution for juveniles?
AGplusone: Dagleish, again?
SimonMycroftxxx: Does he?
Randyjj55: I’m not sure he does. People get killed, it’s usually presented as a touch and go situation.
AGplusone: Yeah, lasting less the elder Bush’s War.
Randyjj55: But real life is often like that – often it’s hard to see what “trigger event” determines success or failure.
AGplusone: because Gekko comes in and swings that really loooong club didn’t know one know about
Randyjj55: But the hints were there.
AGplusone: Yes, they were.
pixelmeow: my daughter has two friends in her room, playing…
Randyjj55: Yep! Of course, the only thing is to go see the chaplain. Of course, if one IS the chaplain, then one has a problem.
pixelmeow: it’s loude on that side of the apt.
pixelmeow: loude???
pixelmeow: loud, that is.
pixelmeow: Much giggling and loud voices…
SimonMycroftxxx: Olde Englyshe, noe dowtte…
pixelmeow: they’re playing dress up, and beauty queen, and all that…
AGplusone: And chaplains usually don’t solve personal problems involving either randiness, Your RandyNess, or cats, dogs in the street.
pixelmeow: Are we early to “the chat”?
KultsiKN: Simon, there are 16,483 Kullervos in Finland
pixelmeow: and are just shooting the bull???
pixelmeow: That’s a lotta Kultsis…
SimonMycroftxxx: [Applause]
AGplusone: No, we’re starting strangely. Buffy was mentioned. I think it’s called the buffiness curse.
pixelmeow: Ah.
Randyjj55: Well, that’s why I am the atypical token Mormon Bishop…. Have to keep up appearances, dontcha know!
pixelmeow: eh? You’re a Mormon Bishop???
SimonMycroftxxx: Don’t tell E!
pixelmeow: Yeah!
AGplusone: Then Randy arrived bringing randiness and Kultsi arrived bringing Finnish blondes …
SimonMycroftxxx: Seems to me that the awareness of self-awareness is not something you (or at least I) can easily demarcate.
DavidWrightSr: Wow Bad night for me. Thank God I’m getting DSL next week.
AGplusone: I’ve got it all so far …
SimonMycroftxxx: I can say eg. 35 years ago I was not sentient.
AGplusone: Anyone want to break early. It’s getting really dark out here. Cloudes upliften …
SimonMycroftxxx: and ca. 32years ago I was.
KultsiKN: It’s not gettin’ light out there — why break?
SimonMycroftxxx: Kultsi — will it get light for you in the next 3 months?
AGplusone: Well, it’s this storm front a-comin’ in … mit der flashers und loud bangs …
Randyjj55: Actually, I need to get back to grading finals. Don’t want to be doing this all weekend.
KultsiKN: sure — at least outside, don’t know about me.
AGplusone: sumbuddy named Thor, I tink …
Randyjj55: Some drunk dwarf viking, no doubt.
AGplusone: Yeah, you bettcha!
KultsiKN: In der Winter? Donner und whatever.!
AGplusone: ‘tousands and tousands’ of dem ….
AGplusone: I marry ’em all. He must have smiled when he wrote that one.
KultsiKN: Blitzen!!! That’s it!
SimonMycroftxxx: Pancer, dancer-
SimonMycroftxxx: PRancer, dancer-
AGplusone: New generation Kultsi. The reindeer are named Blair, and Kyle, and Marquis …
AGplusone: Alt Donner und Blitzen are retired … sent to the reindeer glue factory probably.
KultsiKN: The one ala C Bohn?
AGplusone: Corporate downsizing, you see.
AGplusone: Did Bohn write it?
KultsiKN: Rufo the Bad Programmer.
AGplusone: LOL
KultsiKN: Rudolph, the bad Programmer…. had a flaky code…
AGplusone: And if you ever read it //
Randyjj55: David, are you going to send a copy of your log to David Wright? He’s been bounced a couple of times. I have one since I arrived, but don’t know what came before then.
SimonMycroftxxx: and if you ever saw it, you might even say it blowed…
AGplusone: You would say it (trying to rhyme memory loss in it somehow) Bloat
KultsiKN: Like AG said, he’s got it all.
DavidWrightSr: I’ve got it from the beginning, but have several gaps.
AGplusone: Yes.
AGplusone: Let me copy now, and mail it.
Randyjj55: Okay.
DavidWrightSr: Thanks.
Randyjj55: Well, gentlemen, I must be going. Need to change the tape in my VCR – recording “Taken” today and tomorrow, from the Sci-Fi channel since I haven’t had time to watch it over the past few weeks. Do sveydanya!
AGplusone: Sent. We did decide to go with Btwn Planets on Jan 9 I think. Plus, we’ll go with something about Magic Inc or Waldo or Hoag to take a break after that. Still cooking it up.
Randyjj55: I think the idea of incorporating the Anderson stories is a good one. They make a nice complement.
AGplusone: Lead off is already up on Btwn Planets …
SimonMycroftxxx: Be seein’ ya.
AGplusone: Like to see if we can track down Turtledove.
AGplusone: See ya, Simon
AGplusone: I always wanted to read that one of his too
Randyjj55: Two turtledoves? And a partridge in a pear tree!
AGplusone: After the first … be a tired turtledove
DavidWrightSr: In the multiverse, there are an infinite number of Turtledoves O:-)
KultsiKN: LOL! Cya, Randy!
aggirlj has entered the room.
aggirlj: Hi guys.
AGplusone: see ya, K, David, Ms. Pixel, Hi, Jane we just breaking up the circus.
aggirlj: Oh, well, sorry abouth that. Talk to you later.
SimonMycroftxxx: (Was sayin’ night to Randy!)
KultsiKN: HI, AG minus some and plus some others!
aggirlj has left the room.
SimonMycroftxxx: Hi aggirlj!
SimonMycroftxxx: Was it something I said?
Randyjj55: CYA and CYA. Both are important things to do.
AGplusone: No, she understood me to tell her we were just finishing.
SimonMycroftxxx: Ah.
pixelmeow: so there are a few of us still here…
KultsiKN: David, you’re a bully!
pixelmeow: I had a neighbor come in and we were talking…
pixelmeow: sorry…
AGplusone: I’m her big brother …. goes without saying.
SimonMycroftxxx: Looks like the chat is coming to an end…
SimonMycroftxxx: so…
KultsiKN: Just because I like your sis, it’s no reason to act like that!
SimonMycroftxxx: night all!
DavidWrightSr: Guten Nacht
SimonMycroftxxx has left the room.
AGplusone: Guten Nacht from Neu Amsterdamn, Heer Wrigt
DavidWrightSr: Da!
DavidWrightSr: Good night Chet
KultsiKN: Nieuw Amsterdam? Ya moved?
DavidWrightSr: An old joke.
AGplusone: alternate universe. Pieter beat back the Brits
Final End of Discussion Log
