Heinlein Reader’s Discussion Group
Saturday 06-23-2001 5:00 P.M. EDT
Aliens In Heinlein
Here Begins The Discussion Log
You have just entered room “Heinlein Readers Group chat.”
DavidWrightSr: Hi Folks.
AGplusone: Hi, David. Nice to receive that sign up today
AGplusone: I cannot tell if Ginny’s afk or what
DavidWrightSr: Thanks
AGplusone: Surprised we didn’t get any more comment to the post noting your timeline for All You Zombies that I …
AGplusone: posted on rec.arts.sf.written
DavidWrightSr: I had to miss Thursday nights discussion and am only now getting the log together
AGplusone: did they discuss anything … I missed it entirely too
DavidWrightSr: I don’t know yet, haven’t even had a chance to read it. Just processing raw text
AGplusone: been a busy week for me
AGplusone: I’m bogged down in paperwork
AGplusone: Did you get your copy of Patterson’s The Martian Named Smith … ?
DavidWrightSr: I’ve been working on migrating my major system to a new language, it’s rough
DavidWrightSr: It came today, read the first 10 or so pages.
AGplusone: Sounds like taking a voyage to Plymouth Rock … ‘migrating my major system
DavidWrightSr: The version we use is 13-14 years old and I want to modernize it before I retire
AGplusone: hard or easy sledding? the reading, I mean.
DavidWrightSr: Introduction was pure lit type stuff, but fairly straightforward. just getting started on main part
AGplusone: I’m enjoying it, but Bill loses me every third turn at least.
DavidWrightSr: Is Bill an English Prof?
DavidWrightSr: Me too.
AGplusone: No. Just studied a lot.
AGplusone: very well read
DavidWrightSr: He can talk the talk all right. I never knew that such things existed. What does he do?
AGplusone: and I get the feeling Andy Thornton’s about the same.
AGplusone: Bill generally works in law offices as a paralegal or works for projects that have something to do with
AGplusone: artificial intelligence
AGplusone: so far as I know
DavidWrightSr: Ah, interesting. I hate these short lines argh
AGplusone: and me
DavidWrightSr: I’m going to have to put my older version back. This new one doesn’t cut me off….
AGplusone: Jon’s working hard on a test chat room … he and Francesco have been testing various types
DavidWrightSr: but just tells me after I tried to send it that it was ‘too long or complex’ ….
DavidWrightSr: and I have to do it all over again.
AGplusone: I get used to it. I know when it’s time to stop or go ….
AGplusone: and continue with the thought in the next buffer.
AGplusone: But that’s because, imagine it, the old rooms on AOL were even worse.
DavidWrightSr: I try that, but I tend to lose train if someone gets in before I finish
AGplusone: How worse I’d forgotten until Thursday when I attended a chat I was invited to attend about the con
AGplusone: There is a text squirter
SAcademy: Good afternoon. I think that Ward might come today.
AGplusone: Kicked myself when I realized I’d missed the allusions up to now.
AGplusone: Hi, Ginny
DavidWrightSr: Hi Ginny.
AGplusone: Nice to see Ward if he comes
AGplusone: Dave and I were chatting about this and that
SAcademy: You’ve been to his site?
SAcademy: Classical Music Guide.
AGplusone: Yes, but I don’t know Dave has.
DavidWrightSr: I don’t know who we are talking about.
AGplusone: Mr. Ward is a friend of Ginny’s, old friend who has known her for years.
SAcademy: Ward Botsford. An old friend of mine. Heinlein fan
AGplusone: Right, Botsford ..
AGplusone: when we were trying to record CD roms from some old tapes Ginny had of RAH’
SAcademy: His wife spends her time looking at stuff on eBay
AGplusone: speeches, Ginny asked him to advise me on who to contact
DavidWrightSr: Did you get them recorded?
AGplusone: Btw, I’ll have the Denvention tape, the last one, back Monday
AGplusone: Yes
DavidWrightSr: Great. Are they going to be on sale?
AGplusone: We’re considering using them as bonus inducements for membership
DavidWrightSr: Retroactive? 🙂
AGplusone: Rather Ginny is considering letting us do it. Of course!
AGplusone: Nice memorial labels … and all that.
AGplusone: “New” Heinlein!
SAcademy: Well, sort of.
AGplusone: As ‘new’ as can be … everyone’s excited about it.
SAcademy: Really?
AGplusone: Oh, yeah. Eveyone at that meeting last week said they were. Great inducement.
SAcademy: There is a thunderstorm in the distance. I could have to go offline anyminute.
SAcademy: That’s a nice font you’re using. What is it?
AGplusone: Is this better with mine, Ginny?
AGplusone: Geneva?
SAcademy: No, the other one is fine. I like it–but what ‘s it called?
AGplusone: What I was using is called Comic Sans
AGplusone: Comic Sans MS
SAcademy: Where do I find it?
AGplusone: It may be on the scroll bar right above the buffer. Does yours say what font you’re using now?
DavidWrightSr: You have to go into ‘edit preferences’ to see your font and to change it
SAcademy: It’s Arial. The default one.
AGplusone: If you see a name, there may be two little triangles going up and down … oh, it’s different I guess
AGplusone: on Clones. We can change ours right away, Like this
AGplusone: Or that
AGplusone: Or this
DavidWrightSr: Yeah, rub it in.
AGplusone: or that, which is Arial Black
AGplusone: never looked to see what the others look like
AGplusone: But any font I’ve got in my system folder I can use.
AGplusone: Some of which are terrible
AGplusone: But I like this one
AGplusone: it’s nice and clear
SAcademy: I found it.
AGplusone: Yes, you did!
DavidWrightSr: That’s funny. I tried to change and saw no effect.
AGplusone: well, what do you all think? Wait around to see if anyone shows up?
AGplusone: Do you see an effect if I change? For example here?
DavidWrightSr: yes
DavidWrightSr: I have seen all of your changes.
AGplusone: typewriter “courier”
AGplusone: Copperplate
AGplusone: Book antiqua
DavidWrightSr: I don’t see jane or bill online. Oz is there, but is still on AOL only.
DavidWrightSr: Ok REALLY rub it in 🙂
AGplusone: It’s just flavoring …
DavidWrightSr: You can change right from the main screen?
AGplusone: Right on the main Screen
DavidWrightSr: Well, I have to do several steps, but haven’t found the trick to make it effective.
CMGPublisher has entered the room.
AGplusone: And change color if I wish
AGplusone: Hi,
CMG
SAcademy: Gentlemen, this is Ward Botsford. David Silver and David Wright.
CMGPublisher: Hi!
AGplusone: Nice to ‘see’ you!
CMGPublisher: Likewise!
AGplusone: We got the CD roms done … most of them, and I’ll get the last one this monday
SAcademy: Ward, click on file above, and you will get a pulldown menu with “create shhortcut” on it. Click on t
DavidWrightSr: I did it
SAcademy: Click on that to be able to get back here.
AGplusone: Yep, you did
DavidWrightSr: Is this Ward?
AGplusone: Am I showing up bold, or regular?
SAcademy: Yes, it is.
SAcademy: regular.
AGplusone: 🙂
AGplusone: okay, I’ll go to bold
DavidWrightSr: Bold is too much for me
SAcademy: Happy making?
DavidWrightSr: Welcome Ward. I was just hearing good things from David and Ginny about you
SAcademy: Creat shortcut will put it on your desktop, Ward.
CMGPublisher: Good things? Well that seems promising!
CMGPublisher: Fine.
SAcademy: Would you please boldface?
CMGPublisher: What’s the Chat Topic today?
SAcademy: At the top of the writ in place. Second item “B”
AGplusone: Were talking about making movies of RAH’s alien characters and whether that could be done
AGplusone: today
SAcademy: I don’t know. David?
AGplusone: but not much interest
SAcademy: Bill said he’d come.
AGplusone: Oz should be in shortly too
CMGPublisher: What RAH movies need first and formost is not special effects. It’s a grade A script.
SAcademy: Right you are!!!
AGplusone: absolutely … today I called the ‘kid’ — a thirty-year-old who was doing the CDs
SAcademy: But that won’t happen as long as they use Neumeier etc.
AGplusone: I’d given him a copy of Glory Road to read because he’d read scifi but never any Heinlein.
AGplusone: He loved it, and told me so, and then asked: Heinlein wrote that movie I saw, Starship Troopers…
AGplusone: so I told him, not Heinlein, that was Verhoeven. Let me give you an extra copy of Troopers I just
AGplusone: happen to have, and you’ll see the difference.
CMGPublisher: RAH would have thrown up if he saw that … that …
SAcademy: You can say that again!
SAcademy: That scene where the teacher got the trooper pinned by the hand. Ugh
AGplusone: There’s so much of a difference …
DavidWrightSr: Disgusting is too mild a word
SAcademy: well, at least Verhoeven got what he wanted.
CMGPublisher: It’s not that it was disgusting so much as the script was written by a bad computer with a stomach
SAcademy: I thhink he stood over the script writers and told them what to do.
DavidWrightSr: You mean. He likes to be ‘scorned’ by RAH fans 🙂
CMGPublisher: problem.
AGplusone: try an invite to Major Oz, please Dave
DavidWrightSr: Done
SAcademy: Well, gentlemen, there aren’t an more films being prepared now.
CMGPublisher: I assume you are all AOL folks?
Major oz has entered the room.
DavidWrightSr: Not me 🙂
AGplusone: the question I always use … no, … hi, Oz, gotcha
SAcademy: Greetings.
Major oz: AHHHHH, that was a ride through cyberspace. Hi everyone.
AGplusone: I used to have was whether technical ability would be adequate to convey one of RAH’s aliens, like
AGplusone: Willis, for example, but ever since I saw R2D2 I’ve felt it could easily.
AGplusone: We see harder stuff done on TV series these days.
DavidWrightSr: The problem I see with trying to make any move out of Robert’s works is that the visual….
AGplusone:
CMG is Ward Botsford an old friend of Ginny’s Oz
DavidWrightSr: media doesn’t leave anything to the imagination and doesn’t leave room for …
Major oz: So……we are sticking with sliens?
DavidWrightSr: forming your own questions and images…
Major oz: Glad to meet you, Ward
CMGPublisher: Am I, thank you.
SAcademy: Sorry I should have made the intro
DavidWrightSr: which was a hallmark of Roberts works
AGplusone: The image I always had the biggest problems with were the Martians of any one of them …
AGplusone: Willis and the rest in the juveniles were usually depicted pretty well on covers
Major oz: Sliens?…..what are sliens…? Aliens, then is the subject?
AGplusone: Sir Isaac, for example …
SAcademy: How do you feel about the Mother Thing?
AGplusone: I could never visualize her well
AGplusone: more of an aura … a presence …
DavidWrightSr: My image of her is something like a seal with hands
SAcademy: Furry and cuddly
SAcademy: Or the flat cats?
Major oz: say what?
AGplusone: Flat cats were easy … well described …
stephenveiss has entered the room.
AGplusone: and when they did the ‘tribble’ episode on STrek, I recognized them right away
AGplusone: Hi, Stephen … welcome
Major oz: To me, RAH stressed the “human-ness” of the aliens,
DavidWrightSr: Welcome Stephen
Major oz: whereas most authors stress threir differences.
stephenveiss: hiya
Major oz: yo, stephen……
AGplusone: I always felt the flat cats were little furry pancakes floating about like flying saucers
DavidWrightSr: That was the drawing in one of the books. with little beady eyes
Major oz: I say them as fuzzy flounders
Major oz: sa”w”
AGplusone: yes, the drawings in the books, the juveniles, shaped them in our mind
SAcademy: Exactly right. Judy-Lynn had some made like that with three eyes. About an inch and a hlaf big.
CMGPublisher: L. Sprague de Camp wrote the best very short essay on RAH & his writing.
DavidWrightSr: Aside from ‘wormfaces’, ‘slugs in PM’, ‘skinnies’ and ‘bugs’. All of RAH’s aliens were friendly
LAdyS122 has entered the room.
AGplusone: The hobgoblins and the horses in Starman Jones, and the big thing that came up and ate uncle Steve in
AGplusone: Time for the Stars
SAcademy: Greetings.
AGplusone: that was scary
AGplusone: Hi, Lady
DavidWrightSr: I knew I’d forget some 🙂
LAdyS122: Hi
BPRAL22169 has entered the room.
Lenjazz has entered the room.
AGplusone: And the trash pigs that ate was was left over. I thought Starman Jones had the best adventure…
Major oz: Hi, Lady; Hi, Bill
DavidWrightSr: Hi Bill. Just started reading your book. Good going.
AGplusone: possibities of all of them, from alien standpoints
BPRAL22169: Yo. thanks.
AGplusone: Hi, Len, LTNC
CMGPublisher: Sorry but I have to go. Nice having meet you all!
DenvToday has entered the room.
Lenjazz: Yeah… been under deadlines…
SAcademy: Hello Bill. CMG Publisher is my friend Ward Botsford. Bill Patterson
DenvToday: Hello everybody!
DavidWrightSr: Now we are starting to get somewhere. I thought tonight might be a bust. Welcome everyone
AGplusone: We’re talking about movies and making movies from the stories with aliens
Major oz: Bye, Ward; Hi,Denv
BPRAL22169: Pleased to “meet” you — I’ve been to your music site.
CMGPublisher: ‘Bye
CMGPublisher has left the room.
AGplusone: bye Ward, thanks for coming
Lenjazz: AG… yes, I saw the meeting notice…
SAcademy: Ward had a dinner appointment with someone.
AGplusone: not many replies … have you had any experience writing screenplays with ‘aliens’ Len?
Lenjazz: No, not aliens…
AGplusone: How much does the writer try to define the ‘creatures’ if you know?
AGplusone: Or is it all left up to ‘fx’ …
AGplusone: How would you keep Willis, for example, from coming out looking like a b.e.m.
AGplusone: instead of the basketball with three legs he’s supposed to …
AGplusone: look like
SAcademy: Horrible!
Lenjazz: Ah, Willis… he’d need to be like E.T.
Major oz: Would it not be necessary to develop the character of an alien as much as any other character?
AGplusone: I think with Willis you would have to develop his character
SAcademy: Willis started life as a tape recorder.
Major oz: Is there more to that story…………
Lenjazz: On the screen, I think we would have to be allowed to see the world through his eyes occasionally…
AGplusone: how did that happen, Ginny?
AGplusone: I think so, particularly when Jim gets to view the world from Willis’s perspective in the cave
SAcademy: Well we had just got one, and Robert used Willis to record anything he heard.
DavidWrightSr: Well there was the ‘movie’ sequence that Jim experienced through Willis’ eyes
AGplusone: Actually named the tape recorder Willis?
SAcademy: No, he didn’t go wuite that far.
SAcademy: quite
AGplusone: … but it became Willis after it was written? LOL!
DavidWrightSr: Was it a Webcor wire recorder? 🙂
SAcademy: The tape recorder is long gone, but Willis is still around.
AGplusone: that was my guess too
AGplusone: Trying to remember what they were brand named
DavidWrightSr: My first experience with recorders was around ’47 with an RCA wire recorder
SAcademy: It was, and the darned wire kept getting all tangled up.
Lenjazz: Funny, I was thinking Red Planet might be good project for a studio now with new interest in Mars…
AGplusone: There was a little semispherical one on a stand that used tape reels, little thin reels
Lenjazz: … not to mention the recent Mars flicks were duds.
AGplusone: R2D2 was Willis, sort of, without the fur and standing up higher …
AGplusone: when he expands some of those nasty little tools when they’re trapped in the Death Star
Major oz: re: Mars……….My most believeable alien were the Martians in Double Star
SAcademy: Well, Willis was a “bouncer” ball-shaped.
AGplusone: and R2D2 was a ball atop a cylinder
AGplusone: made of metal of course
Major oz: I always saw them as green traffic cones with arms and legs.
DavidWrightSr: And not capable of growing to a full size Martian 🙂
Lenjazz: OZ… okay, I’ll bite… what makes an alien “believable?”
Major oz: ……or tenacles, of course.
SAcademy: I think that Willis was covered with fur.
AGplusone: so did I …
Lenjazz: Willis was furry.
AGplusone: Willis was believable … to me when I read them. His personality
AGplusone: so too was Lummox
Major oz: believable as developed characters, not in the sense of plausibility
LAdyS122 has left the room.
Lenjazz: ah… believability in that they have human attributes?
AGplusone: And o’ Lummie was a dragon so far as I could tell … without the wings
Major oz: not necessarily
Lenjazz: Then what?
AGplusone: and then she grew arms
Major oz: only that the author (or screenwriter, if an adopter) develop the character so that
SAcademy: More like an alligator.
Major oz: it inspires interest
Major oz: The “kind” of interest is not important, only that it be there.
stephenveiss has left the room.
AGplusone: Both Lummox and Willis were ‘funny’
AGplusone: up until it got serious …
Lenjazz: I’m trying to to think of an example that fits “interest” but doesn’t involve some sort of humanity.
Major oz: It can be feared, loathed, loved, etc. but must hold interest.
Major oz: ……as a necessary part of the whole tale.
Lenjazz: As in “Aliens?”
DavidWrightSr: I seem to recall a promotion hook that the publisher used for the juvies,…..
Major oz: sure
AGplusone: as an example of feared, I never had trouble visualizing the horses in Starman Jones
Major oz: that was one bad dude.
AGplusone: Horses with big teeth
DavidWrightSr: that Robert Heinlein always had an interesting alien.
Major oz: VERY well developed
AGplusone: sharp teeth
DavidWrightSr: Very sharp
AGplusone: canivore centaurs
AGplusone: carnivor
Major oz: Niven’s puppateers have complex development and, as such, are on-going interests.
Lenjazz: Question — Aliens were supposedly technologically intelligent… but portrayed as animal like…
DavidWrightSr: I’ve always been interested in the contrast between the slugs in PM and the ones in Citizen….
Major oz: puppateeers belie that
DavidWrightSr: totally different … but similar\
Major oz:
AGplusone: /ga Len … continue the question
Major oz: animal like is, somewhat, a default. It they ain’t human what are they — animals
Lenjazz: Well, RAH seemed to always to have intelligent, non-human aliens doing very human things… as in PM
Major oz: So I discard the “animal like” label and use, simply, aliens.
Major oz: My earlier point.
Major oz: H stressed their human-ness
Major oz: Most others stress their non human-ness
Lenjazz: … how is it we mostly get animals who are supposedly intelligent doing animal like things now?
Major oz: ?
Lenjazz: What? Animal like = alien?
AGplusone: It seems to say that the ‘intelligence’ would be human-like …
AGplusone: what if it was merely incomprehensible?
Major oz: I don’t know what you mean by “animal-like”
AGplusone: or the alien objects were incomprehensible to us?
Lenjazz: Animal like = not necessarily intelligent in the human sense.
Major oz: A Kzinti will flick its tail, even though it surpasses human technology.
Major oz: Is that doing something “animal-like”?
AGplusone: The thing in “Alien” the movie just seems to want to kill everything … and spread
Major oz: EEEEVILLLLL
Major oz: and well developed.
AGplusone: the biological imperative
AGplusone: like the bugs of Troopers ….
Major oz: nit pick……it wants biological hosts
AGplusone: for incubation
Major oz: yeah
Lenjazz: Yeah… but these Aliens supposedly build space ships — or their forefathers did. Inconsistant.
Major oz: inconsistent with what?
Major oz: You can be evil and technological
Lenjazz: Inconsistant with being intelligent.
Major oz: Hitler
AGplusone: Whereas, RAH postulated that if they built spacetravel they’d have something in common
AGplusone: in their aims with humans–they’d compete?
AGplusone: or grok until it was time to make another
AGplusone: Fifth Planet ruins
AGplusone: or wait until Gods came flying in and said: don’t study space travel no more, like the Jocks?
BPRAL22169: Kzin, singular. Kzinti is plural. Scream and leap.
Major oz: I think it was the genius of RAH that he didn’t dwell on aliens. His stories were about the …..
Major oz: ……human condition. He used aliens when it suited him to make his point.
Lenjazz: RAH knew the danger in aliens, or humans for that matter, lie in their use of intelligence.
BPRAL22169: Well, even alien stories are ultimately about human beings.
Major oz: He left it to others to write about bug-eyed mossters.
Major oz: That some of these others did it well does not detract from His aliens.
Lenjazz: Animals were the least of man’s worries in space.
AGplusone: I don’t remember a bug-eyed monster, mostly I recall species potentially in competition
BPRAL22169: BEM stories are one-note; he liked full symphonic effects.
AGplusone: either on attack, or watching us carefully, like the cops on the beat, or easily
AGplusone: annoyed and maybe swinging a bigger club than we ever imagined
AGplusone: and it was therefore up to us to ‘get along’
AGplusone: very unlikely we’d erradicate them
AGplusone: Unless they’re long-toothed horses …
Major oz:
Lenjazz: Now talking Mules… I always like the idea of that.
AGplusone: which they will when they come back to get Sgt. Robert’s body
Major oz: Buck………perhaps my favorite character.
AGplusone: I think, next to Jerry, yes … I’d want to see Jerry done first.
Lenjazz: Now there’s a bridge between man and animal… almost alien like… yes?
AGplusone: But these ‘aliens’ are enhanced ‘animals’ … any difference … ?
AGplusone: almost man
AGplusone: or maybe, as the title says: “Man”
Major oz: Len, I still can’t get a grasp on how you are using “animal”.
OakMan 7111 has entered the room.
Major oz: yo, oak
OakMan 7111: sorry I’m late
Lenjazz: Oz… as in not having human type awareness, compassion, intelligent aggresson
Lenjazz: my typing stinks…
AGplusone: Is your point, Len, that unless the ‘animals’ are almost manlike, there’s really nothing for a screen-
AGplusone: writer to do?
Major oz: So the Kzin are animal AND alien?
AGplusone: No character development, etc.?
AGplusone: Thinking of “Alien, My Enemy”
Lenjazz: No, but audiences generally have problems with Aliens that are not human like…
KMurphy165 has entered the room.
Major oz: David……that’s Enemy Mine
AGplusone: E.g., who really cared how many of the bugs Verhoxers’ troopers blasted …?
AGplusone: which is another reason why his ‘satire’ doesn’t work
Major oz: So that’s what they AREN’T. What are they?
Lenjazz: Yep… we don’t care about bugs.
OakMan 7111: we weren’t meant to, were we?
Lenjazz: Don’t think so.
BPRAL22169: I see — “beasts” versus “animals.”
Major oz: You and I know that, Oak, but Verhoxen never figured it out.
AGplusone: According the apologists we were …. good old Doogie Hoosier blasting ’em as POWs was supposed to be
AGplusone: terrible
BPRAL22169: What, you don’t care about galactic bug farts as a means of waging war?
BPRAL22169: incidentaly, they can place that scene in the dictionary as an illustration of “bathos.”
Major oz: now, now, this isn’t afh
OakMan 7111: Well, I care, Bill – especially thge second time the space Navy bunches
OakMan 7111: up to make it easy for the farts to kill everybody
BPRAL22169: yes, close enough for the ships to bump each other.
AGplusone: and an analog to the Nazi’s conducting medical experiences on inmates or the Japanese doing the same
BPRAL22169: “But I’m not bitter–”
AGplusone: experiments
AGplusone: but did the ‘shoot ’em up audience’ think so, heck no.
Lenjazz: It was the intelligent bugs (read: human attributes) that Doogie feared.
OakMan 7111: tough to feel sorry for em when they don’t have brains
Lenjazz: Exactly.
AGplusone: and as far as I was concerned, his fooling around with that poor feret was the worst thing in the movie,…
Major oz: Intelligence is NOT a uniquely human attribute (in the SF world)
AGplusone: because I didn’t care about the bugs at all.
AGplusone: A feret I can see as a human pet, mistreated.
Lenjazz: Worst thing in the movie was what’s her name’s silly grin.
OakMan 7111: she didn’t have brains either
OakMan 7111: on the other hand, as Ginny has said, the movie sold lots of books so some folks may have seen the
OakMan 7111: light
AGplusone: That was a feret that sociopath was experimenting on in the beginning, wasn’t it?
Lenjazz: Remember stobor in… oh my God, I just realized what the acronym for Tunnel in the Sky is!!!
AGplusone: lol
Lenjazz: How did miss THAT?
OakMan 7111: LOL – tell him what the original name was
Major oz: I gotta run, folks. Leaving Mon morn for a reunion / fishing trip. Back in late July/early Aug
OakMan 7111: Bye Oz – keep your powder dry
AGplusone: School house in the sky
Major oz: Gotta clear the phone lines.
AGplusone: See ya, Oz
DavidWrightSr: You mean ‘School House in the Sky’
DavidWrightSr: 🙂
Lenjazz: LOL!
Major oz has left the room.
AGplusone: even better, eh?
Lenjazz: Ginny knows this?
Lenjazz: Is someone pulling my naive leg?
DavidWrightSr: Len. Don’t feel bad. It was 25 years before I realized that tanstaafl was an…
OakMan 7111: nope
DavidWrightSr: acronym, TANSTAAFL and not a foreign word
AGplusone: she’s asleep now … I suppose, afk
OakMan 7111: She knows
AGplusone: but I doubt that she’d missed it after all these years
AGplusone: what with John Thomases, and raising John Thomases
Lenjazz: Was tunnel really names school house in the sky? Seriously?
Lenjazz: named.
AGplusone: Dead serious
Lenjazz: As the kids say, KEWL!
billdennis2nd has entered the room.
billdennis2nd: Hello folks
OakMan 7111: hi William
billdennis2nd: I almost missed the chat!
AGplusone: Hi, Bill … Farmer in the Sky was about the ‘fits’ Bill Leamer had … and didn’t
AGplusone: until he was broken down like the stone and recombined into fruitful soil
AGplusone: [or at least that’s my theory, and I ain’t admitting I’m wrong]
billdennis2nd: Thats the spirit, David.
billdennis2nd: It’s a sign of weakness.
Lenjazz: Does anyone know if Rick Smolan did anything with the rights to Tunnel?
OakMan 7111: I hope Jane never tells the libraries she’d like to place TITS there…
SAcademy: Yes. He owns it now. He’s looking for financing.
billdennis2nd: I reread tunnel for the first time since I was in grade school. It was like I had never read it before
billdennis2nd: I have come to the conclusion Tunnel would make a hell of a movie
AGplusone: [actually I’m really proud of that little metaphore I think I discovered]
Lenjazz: Ah, thanks. I had heard he bought the screen rights… did he write the screenplay?
SAcademy: He’s planning to oversee everthing that’s done himself, and keep it true to the book
billdennis2nd: I met a four once. I would have asked her out, but I was holding out for at least a six.
OakMan 7111: ?
billdennis2nd: “met a four” = metaphore. get it? hahahahaha
OakMan 7111: :'(
Lenjazz: That’s great news. Tunnel deserves great treatment.
AGplusone: urk
billdennis2nd: bad puns are my specialty
SAcademy: The trouble is that no one wants to back him because he hasn’t made a movie before.
OakMan 7111: What is his budget
AGplusone: If Tunnel was kept ‘true to the book’ there
SAcademy: I don’t have any idea.
Lenjazz: I understand Rick’s problem. I’ve had a script optioned, but producers are wary of first time scribes
billdennis2nd: That’s the trouble. Hollywood NEVER keeps things true to the book.
AGplusone: would be few ways to make the beasts human like … and the stobor would be scary, like the maribunta
AGplusone: in that Heston movie a couple generations back
AGplusone: the jungle ants
billdennis2nd: The stobor could easilly be done via CGI
OakMan 7111: Omega Man or Planet of the Apes?
AGplusone: no, before then
Lenjazz: Rick’s main problem will be keeping that creative control… every producer has his 2 cents.
AGplusone: explorers in South America … ants start coming on a migration …
billdennis2nd: I think I saw that movie on Turner Movie Classics
AGplusone: nothing stops them … Heston ends up making a stand … burns up his furniture, a la Cowperstown, etc
billdennis2nd: Has “Destination Moon” ever appeared on TMC or AMC?
SAcademy: Sure, even the banker on DM was writing script changes.
billdennis2nd: I gotta say it “Cowperstown” is a great name for a city.
AGplusone: Heston owns a plantation … rich … ain’t going
AGplusone: everyone else runs
AGplusone: Ava Gardner I think was female lead
billdennis2nd: I saw “angry Red Planet” last night on AMC. What a lousy movie.
Lenjazz: I wish Rick the best… he’ll need an independent company with dollars…hard to find.
OakMan 7111: I saw the last ten minutes – what a lousy movie
SAcademy: Aren’t they all loust?
billdennis2nd: You would think with Starship Troopers being a hit, he would be able to find financing.
billdennis2nd: That may be the only good thing to come of that movie.
AGplusone: refering to the one with the lead actor the one played “Iceman” in the Cruise movie
billdennis2nd: There are a lot of good science fiction movies out there. It angers me that the only ones they repeat
billdennis2nd: are the “campy” ones.
billdennis2nd: No. That is “Red Planet.”.
OakMan 7111: The good ones may still be selling on casette
billdennis2nd: I am refering to the one done in the 40s or 50s I think.
BPRAL22169: I think that was just Red Planet; Angry Red Planet was a 50’s movie.
Lenjazz: Tunnel is a smaller, human story… not big bug, FX pic.
OakMan 7111: I think you can still buy Forbidden Planet, for instance
billdennis2nd: Angry Red Planet’s “mars” scenes are with overbearing red background,
billdennis2nd: I love Forbidden Planet.
billdennis2nd: Star TRek owes to much to Forbidden Planet.
OakMan 7111: And FP owes it all to Shakespeare
billdennis2nd: Tunnel has some heavy special effects, action scenes, though.
Lenjazz: The interesting thing about Tunnel, is I think it migh play very well to gen-x and gen-y crowd…
Lenjazz: …if it were pitched properly.
billdennis2nd: Everything owes much to Shalespeare.
AGplusone: I think it would too ….
AGplusone: it’s adventurous
OakMan 7111: Is their attention span long enough?
AGplusone: it has some good characters … lots of young faces
AGplusone: some sub plots
AGplusone: that could be exploited
billdennis2nd: I doubt they even teach much Shakespeare anymore.
AGplusone: politically correct cast
billdennis2nd: TRue, David.
AGplusone: even a sister-soldier that would appeal to the fems
Lenjazz: Tunnel is about young people discovering themselve and make huge political statements, amidst action!
Lenjazz: still lousy typist.
billdennis2nd: Money interests don’t give a flying rat’s ass about political statements.
Lenjazz: The woman are as tough as the men (Tomb Raider)….
AGplusone: exactly … play it as an upbeat counterstatement to that Golding thing
Lenjazz: Guns aren’t as effective as brains and knives…
AGplusone: Sure, Carolyn is tougher, and Jackie is smarter
billdennis2nd: OK, want to play dreamcasting?
billdennis2nd: Rod=?
Lenjazz: Heroes can beat up and STILL WIN!
billdennis2nd: Jackie=?
Lenjazz: can be beat up and still win … geez…
OakMan 7111: I thought you were just being PC, Len
KMurphy165 has left the room.
AGplusone: And you could play suspense with “who be da Stobor?”
AGplusone: a la Freddy Kruger ….
Lenjazz: No… if Rick didn’t already won Tunnel, I’d be writing it right now instead of a cyber-porn thriller
OakMan 7111: Oh yeah – do Stobor always through their eyes – never see them
OakMan 7111: only the fear in the eyes of those they attack
billdennis2nd: I still think Stobor should be a name of a Vulcan on Star Trek.
AGplusone: Exactly … maybe it was the Stobor that got the guy with the dog first off
AGplusone: Johann
Lenjazz: At least not see the stobor for awhile… like the critters in Pitch Black.
AGplusone: Yes.
Gaeltachta has entered the room.
OakMan 7111: Yo Sean
AGplusone: Just the body going down and “crunch, crunch, crunch…”
SAcademy: Hello
OakMan 7111: and the whimper of the dog
Gaeltachta: Yo…….
billdennis2nd: Howdy Sean.
AGplusone: GMTA I was thinking whine
AGplusone: and a big death squeak!
Lenjazz: Remember how long it took to see the shark in Jaws. All we saw were the results of its presence
Gaeltachta: Hello all, SA, Bill, Jon, David……….
AGplusone: or squeal
AGplusone: Hi, Sean
OakMan 7111: Bill Stobor is probably a Dragon Rider
Gaeltachta: Today is Alians and movies?
Gaeltachta: Aliens……
AGplusone: yep … we’re thinking on Stobor …
AGplusone: slurp, slurp ….
Gaeltachta: Good topic…….. what are we thinking?
Lenjazz: Anyway… got to get back to detectives, murder, and web cam girls… have fun everybody.
OakMan 7111: and David is really getting into it
Lenjazz: Bye.
OakMan 7111: bye Len
Berllan5UD has entered the room.
Gaeltachta: Bye
Lenjazz has left the room.
Berllan5UD: hi all
AGplusone: Hello David Tibbetts!
AGplusone: LTNC
billdennis2nd: brb
BPRAL22169: Revolving door here.
Berllan5UD: thanks for invite. not stop long. off to bed
AGplusone: Wales is what AM now in the morn?
AGplusone: They’ve just woken up in the land of Oz …
Gaeltachta: Nup…… I’m 8.30 am now (sunday)
OakMan 7111: I want to get the stage rights for “The Long Watch” – write a one-man play
AGplusone: what makes you think I wake up before noon on Sunday
AGplusone: have to go to mass if I get up earlier …
OakMan 7111: the time Board meets are scheduled for makes me think it
AGplusone: Gaeltachta: I would love to see a script for Tunnel. I guess one is in development SA?
AGplusone: What do you think about aliens and movie development for RAH works, Dave …
OakMan 7111: Although its fun to read David whimper piteously about not having had breakfast
SAcademy: I don’t know. Maybe.
Gaeltachta: I’ve been on a long walk and had scrambled eggs already.
OakMan 7111: Kangaroo eggs?
SAcademy: LOL
Gaeltachta: They weren’t furry…… so , no 🙂
AGplusone: I think Len would love to hook up with Rick Smolan and give it a shot.
SAcademy: No reason not to try.
billdennis2nd: Sean, if it’s so early Sunday, why aren’t you in chruch? 😉
AGplusone: The other possibility I’d love to see made is Starman Jones ….
Gaeltachta: Not in me Bill.
OakMan 7111: Absolutely, though the basic plot point would have to be reworked
AGplusone: I think if they can make beer commercials with Clydesdales, they can do those meat-eating horses
AGplusone: and the balloon hoggoblins, etc.
AGplusone: And Sam’s last stand is a crowd pleaser
OakMan 7111: They do Centaurs in the Hercules TV show
Gaeltachta: Basically with CGI, anything you can imagine can be done now.
AGplusone: The entire thing about the ‘deserter makes good’ is a sympathetic plot
AGplusone: but someone like Alan Richman would steal the show, if cast as Sam
billdennis2nd: But bad CGI is really noticible.
OakMan 7111: I was thinking Kevin Spacey
Gaeltachta: *If* it’s bad, yes.
AGplusone: CGI gets better every TV series
AGplusone: I watched Paying It Forward last night, anyone else see it?
OakMan 7111: Though classic Star Trek will live in my memory – its painful to watch now
AGplusone: Spacey did a good job in that.
OakMan 7111: plywood desks and pictures on the walls
Gaeltachta: Haven’t seen it. But I don’t see Spacey as Sam. I could be wrong.
AGplusone: There’s a certain weakness in Spacey that might translate well into a Sam Anderson, or Roberts, or
AGplusone: Richards, I forget his name, exactly
OakMan 7111: He’s a helluva actor – did you see “Usual Suspects?”
OakMan 7111: or “American Beauty?”
Gaeltachta: Yes, he’s a great actor……. just seems too modern or something, if that makes sense.
AGplusone: But he’d have to hang around with Dale Dye or somebody to learn to be a marine sergeant
OakMan 7111: too modern for 2356?
AGplusone: Jack Webb pulled it off.
Berllan5UD: well, folks, i’m away. catch you all again sooner rather than later
OakMan 7111: g’bye
AGplusone: He had that same nice softness before Dragnet and the DI
Gaeltachta: Yes, in a way…….. But what do I know.
Berllan5UD has left the room.
OakMan 7111: U know more than you pretend to, Sean…but we have ways of making you talk….
Gaeltachta: “I know nuthin'”……..
AGplusone: Funny, tho … there’s two types of alien or augmented animal stories
OakMan 7111: “You have relatives in the old country?”
AGplusone: and Len’s point before he left was: the ones with human motivations are more challanging
OakMan 7111: ga David
Gaeltachta: In Ireland? Yes, but very distant…….. 3rd cousins……..
AGplusone: to write about, but we’re talking about the animal beasts as making a more salable movie
AGplusone: stobor, and meat-eating horses
OakMan 7111: Campbell once challenged his stable of writers to come up with a totally alien creature that was
OakMan 7111: understandable without being at all human
AGplusone: who came up with what Jon?
OakMan 7111: I think Von Vogt came up with his hunter creature
OakMan 7111: damn, i cant remember the name of the crature or the book
AGplusone: define them please
OakMan 7111: Black destroyer!
OakMan 7111: yes!
AGplusone: inexorable like the Black Death?
OakMan 7111: Story’s plot was similar to Alien
OakMan 7111: stowaway creature starts hunting down the crew
AGplusone: Rats—>fleas—>bacilii—>infect humans, humans die …
OakMan 7111: He was, iirc correctly a telepathic Panther with an IQ higher than ours and a total carnivore
AGplusone: What about the Martians in Wells’ story, Bill …. what were they like
AGplusone: War of the Worlds
DavidWrightSr: Reminds me of van vogts. ‘Voyage of the Space Beagle’ also.
AGplusone: They did some Star Trek ones where the other beings were always on such a higher plane than us …
AGplusone: and remote … and we were dust under their chariot wheels, unimportant
OakMan 7111: did a quickl lookup – Black Destroyer was serialization of Voyage of the Space beagle
OakMan 7111: creatures name was Coerl
AGplusone: like the Martians in Stranger …. content to ‘grok’ us, then destroy us when the time was ripe
AGplusone: like Gods from afar …
OakMan 7111: there were other stories in the Space beagle book. Black destroyer was one of them
DavidWrightSr: I thought so. Sounded familiar, but not by that title
AGplusone: That kind of portrayal has always been impossible … or rather stilted and phony
DavidWrightSr: Van Vogt went from a low-level threat to a galaxy-wide threat in that book.
AGplusone: like the old Jimmy Stewart Xmas favorite
AGplusone: sending down angels like Mike …
AGplusone: imagine doing the Glaroon …
AGplusone: what’s he up to … ?
OakMan 7111: I was fascinated by the appearance of both a Christ analog in Mike and a Mohammed analog in
OakMan 7111: Paul Atreides apprearing within a year of each other
Gaeltachta has left the room.
AGplusone: Or meeting the Jock’s god, finally, Laz goes in and says: “What do you know I don’t …?”
Gaeltachta has entered the room.
OakMan 7111: wb Sean
Gaeltachta: I lost my cursor……..
Gaeltachta: There it is!
billdennis2nd: I used to be a cursor … but Mom washed my mouth out with soap and broke me of the habit.
DJedPar has entered the room.
Gaeltachta: I *knew* you would say that!
AGplusone: I’m trying to think of movies when they’ve portrayed either the Panthers like vanV’s
SAcademy: Hello /Denis
AGplusone: or the gods like maybe Steven Kings’ effectively
billdennis2nd: Hello Djed.
DJedPar: Hello Ginny… made it.
AGplusone: Hi, dennis
SAcademy: I see that you did.
DJedPar: Hi David
AGplusone: and trying to get a handle on how you’d portray a Martian like the one in Red Planet
AGplusone: Yoda?
AGplusone: Or a Merlin type?’
OakMan 7111: Yoda was the same character Pat Morita played in Karate Kid
billdennis2nd: More like the Vorlon from Babylon 5. Tall, silent, mysterious and wise.
OakMan 7111: only green
OakMan 7111: Gods in SF movies always seem to end up being children playing with us as if we are toys
billdennis2nd: I always saw the Red Planet Martians as tree-like.
billdennis2nd: Sort of like Ents from LOTR.
AGplusone: That new LOTR ought to be interesting to watch
OakMan 7111: In DoubleStar they definitely resemble trees
BPRAL22169: You mean Double Star?
billdennis2nd: Yeah. Maybe that is where I got the idea.
billdennis2nd: I am eagerly awaiting LOTR movie.
AGplusone: Brad just called me, Bill. We’ll get together for the set for the library Mon night
OakMan 7111: I picked up the painting of one of the covers of Red Planet, Bill I’ve got a pic on the website
billdennis2nd: Exactly how many Bills are there who frequent alt.fan.heinlein?
BPRAL22169: Exellent.
OakMan 7111: You’re the nicest
BPRAL22169: Far, far too many.
billdennis2nd: Bill Dennis, Bill Paterson, ?
DavidWrightSr: Too many Bills and too many Davids. Shoot every other one 🙂
BPRAL22169: *curtsey*
SAcademy: Will someone please tell Denis how to create a shortcut? I can’t do it.
Gaeltachta: Just call everyone Bill……. Makes it easier!
DJedPar: Do I need it with the new Heinlein site?
BPRAL22169: In theFile pulldown menu there’s an option for “Create shortcut”
billdennis2nd: “It’s the Bill and Dave Show!”
BPRAL22169: It puts an icon onyour desktop.
BPRAL22169: *pffttt*
SAcademy: Thanks.
DJedPar: Ok. Thanks
BPRAL22169: You could put the new site into your Favorites. I don’t think a shortcut would do any good.
AGplusone: I’m just a spare Dave ….
billdennis2nd: Shouldn’t we all create profiles so we and newbies can keep each other straight?
AGplusone: shoot the other one, he’s the trouble maker
OakMan 7111: As far as the website goes, if you are using i.e. I”ll have a button up that will put it in your
OakMan 7111: favorites list
BPRAL22169: There’s two of him — Maikosht as well as Dwrighsr
DavidWrightSr: Split Personality
AGplusone: or we could nominate the one from Wales …
BPRAL22169: Need two bullets, and that might not be such a good idea — we’d never see our logs again!
DJedPar: The new site access worked perfectly tonite.
OakMan 7111: Well, thank goodness Ogden is such a rare name. No chance of that being a problem
AGplusone: suggest ten minute break ….
AGplusone: back at 20 past the hour … water cats?
billdennis2nd: yeah. I need one.
Gaeltachta: Coffee’s on…
billdennis2nd: brb
OakMan 7111: afk
Gaeltachta: afk? I probably should know that one?
AGplusone: We’ve had 13 new members, btw, sign up since last meeting
DavidWrightSr: Away from Keyboard
Gaeltachta: Thanks
AGplusone: to THS’s website
AGplusone: and some like Dennis logging in, who were already members, of course
Gaeltachta: How many members all together David?
AGplusone: 40
AGplusone: so it’s starting to snowball
Gaeltachta: Great work!
OakMan 7111: David, I switched to a new, faster entry for i.e. users today
AGplusone: and enough blood donors that it’s almost time to start the list of honor
AGplusone: that will always help … I’m amazed as the amount of improvements you put in Jon
OakMan 7111: Barry okayed that – so that should be done tomorrow
AGplusone: looks like Pix may be able to help too
billdennis2nd: back
OakMan 7111: I hope so, did you see my response?
AGplusone: even a blind pig finds acorns
AGplusone: Yes
OakMan 7111: She a really neat kid….is it okay to say that?
AGplusone: certainly
AGplusone: I’m trying to talk her into coming up to Philly for dinner
billdennis2nd: I signed up, but I have’t received an invoice yet.
OakMan 7111: what?
OakMan 7111: say it isn’t so bill
billdennis2nd: It’s true.
OakMan 7111: thats not your line, dammit
DavidWrightSr: I was going to ask about the bill. Is it supposed to come after we sign?
billdennis2nd: I cannot tell a lie.
OakMan 7111: ^%*^$%^#$^%!
billdennis2nd: Don’t say “bill”… call it an invoice.
billdennis2nd: 😉
OakMan 7111: Hmpf…Okay, luckily, we have records of such things
OakMan 7111: so I should in short order get to the bottom
billdennis2nd: So how much is it … $1.95 ?
OakMan 7111: Nope for you it’s only $500
Gaeltachta: Does the Society accept credit card payments yet?
billdennis2nd: Are you getting cheaky with me?
Gaeltachta: Or just cheques (checks)?
AGplusone: do you have Amex, Sean?
AGplusone: cheques work
Gaeltachta: Not Amex…… Visa.
OakMan 7111: Nope, but I accept Paypal, sean and could handle it on a pass thru or wait awhile and David will
OakMan 7111: have us set up on PayPal
billdennis2nd: Will you take Diner’s Club?
billdennis2nd: 😉
Gaeltachta: I can do PayPal…… No probs.
DJedPar: The new site is extraordinary. Congratulations are in order. Bravo! All of you.
OakMan 7111: kewl – save it for a little till we get it set up – you can be our first tester
CHASGRAFT has entered the room.
Gaeltachta: Ok……
AGplusone: Hi, charlie, how you been
BPRAL22169: I quite agree about the new site.
Gaeltachta: Email me Jon, when it’s ready to test.
OakMan 7111: Duh! David we should have an announcement of when the next chat is and what its about on the website
billdennis2nd: I have to say, when I first saw it (after being offline for about six months) my jaw dropped and my m
AGplusone: Any preferences on subject ….
billdennis2nd: mouth watered.
AGplusone: ????
AGplusone: anyone
BPRAL22169: I think we’re skipping the next one.
CHASGRAFT: Not too bad. Yardwork, today.
BPRAL22169: It’s scheduled over the Westercon weekend.
AGplusone: Ah, that’s a decent reason then I suppose.
BPRAL22169: I can’t find my calendar, but I think Andy Thornton’s is after that.
AGplusone: Gives us more time to work on whatever comes after that.
AGplusone: If you had Andy post it … then we could start working on it.
AGplusone: What was his subject?
OakMan 7111: I dont think there’s a full evening in it, but I wanted to do a comparison between Legion and SiaSL
BPRAL22169: Well — it’s in my calendar . . .
OakMan 7111: sometime
AGplusone: ‘Legion’?
billdennis2nd: One of these days, I am going write about similarities in fiction of Heinlein and Philip Jose Farmer.
AGplusone: Lost Legion, ah
billdennis2nd: There are more than one would think.
OakMan 7111: I am having a Senior Moment – Long Novella about three who discover how
OakMan 7111: to makethemselves into supermen?
BPRAL22169: “Lost Legacy.”
AGplusone: aka Lost Legacy
AGplusone: The Mark Twain, Ambrose Bierce one …
OakMan 7111: Yep that’s the one. I could make a case for LL being a study for Stranger
BPRAL22169: Here’s the entry for July 19: “Friday, Farnham’s Freehold, “Gulf,”
BPRAL22169: and Racism.” Hosted by Andy Thornton
billdennis2nd: I know that the uncut version of Stranger is dedicated to Philip Jose Farmer,
AGplusone: why don’t we schedule that one after Thornton, and see how the guest visits that are hanging go after
AGplusone: that.
Gaeltachta: Sounds interesting Bill…….
BPRAL22169: That’s August 2, 4. Jon to host?
OakMan 7111: urgle
Gaeltachta: I think there is something in that……
TAWN3 has entered the room.
AGplusone: great with me
AGplusone: Hi, Tawn
TAWN3: Hi everybody
Gaeltachta: Hi Tawn
billdennis2nd: Farmer and Heinlein were both influenced by Mark Twain. Both authors used Twain as a character,
TAWN3: Sean, david, David, Sa,evryone else!
BPRAL22169: Your issues are in the mail.
SAcademy: Hello Tawn
OakMan 7111: Hi Tawn
billdennis2nd: Of course Farmer to a greater extent in the Riverworld series.
TAWN3: OK, Thanks. I have a few emails to read yet, yu may be one of them.
BPRAL22169: I think it’s simpler than that —
Gaeltachta: Did Heinlein use Twain as a character?
BPRAL22169: Farmer was the first SF writer to get away with writing about sex.
billdennis2nd: He appeared briefly in To Sail beyong the Sunset
TAWN3: NotB?
Gaeltachta: Ok.
AGplusone: maybe the character in “If this goes on … ” too
BPRAL22169: Explicitly, I mean.
billdennis2nd: Well, Heinlein wrote about it first. Farmer was more explicit.
AGplusone: the one who dies after the speech about liberty
BPRAL22169: Yes.
BPRAL22169: I think Twain is mentioned a couple of times in “Lost Legacy,” isn’t he?
AGplusone: I think he is …
billdennis2nd: I believe so too.
BPRAL22169: Or maybe it was just the notes.
BPRAL22169: When it comes time, tap me for the Lost Legacy notes — I transcribed them into my computer.
billdennis2nd: Both Farmer and Heinlein wrote about heroic characters, although Farmer dug into their
Gaeltachta: There is a strong “Twain” connection, I agree.
billdennis2nd: inner psyches
AGplusone: I haven’t read any Riverworld in years
billdennis2nd: THanks Bill.
billdennis2nd: I interviewed Farmer once… about 15 years ago when I was a student.
BPRAL22169: Was that your topic, WD?
Gaeltachta: I read all the Riverworld books years ago. They were pretty good.
BPRAL22169: I got it wrong – thought it was Jon
TAWN3: Hated Riverworld. No conclusion to any of the boks, like a movie set up for a sequel.
billdennis2nd: There is a Riverworld series in the works, supposedly.
Gaeltachta: The series did conclude, eventually.
billdennis2nd: I read the Riverworld series in one huge chunk when I was in high school.
billdennis2nd: I need to reread them, the first three at least.
OakMan 7111: I think we’re doing Legacy in Aug, Bill P – with me as host
BPRAL22169: ‘scuse – who is hosting August 2? Jon O or Bill D?
AGplusone: I think I read the first three, said, “That’s nice,” but never read them again.
BPRAL22169: OK — that’s what I was looking for
BPRAL22169: We should have another author chat thereafter.
Gaeltachta: The ending was quite imaginative (I thought)
AGplusone: Jon O
OakMan 7111: David that was my feeling. the first was great but it just kept going and going and…
billdennis2nd: Farmer’s “The Green Odessy” reminds me so much of LL’s background story from “The Tale of the Twins w
billdennis2nd: who weren’t
AGplusone: Sounds like another topic Bill …
billdennis2nd: In that both are tales of an escape from slavery and the protagonist’s relative desire to protect
billdennis2nd: they sired
AGplusone: opportunity to finally appreciate Farmer
BPRAL22169: There’s a lot of material there — might be difficult to manage a chat on that topic.
billdennis2nd: I don’t think Farmer shared Heinlein’s politics or world view.
AGplusone: narrowly defined … we’ve done worse … and might discover something or the other
billdennis2nd: I don’t think Farmer is a good chat topic, cause not all Hainlein fans have read farmer
OakMan 7111: Bill sdidnt you say once that you talked to Farmer?
TAWN3: Read his tarzan book, definitely not Heinlein!
SAcademy: I’m sure of that.
BPRAL22169: Sure.
billdennis2nd: Yes. It was a long time ago. And the interview never saw print.
AGplusone: It’s like any guest author …
OakMan 7111: Do you still have it? Why don’t you post it?
BPRAL22169: Oh, we both have, then. he was living in Scottsdale when I was involved in local SF fandom
BPRAL22169: in Phoenix
billdennis2nd: Ginny, have you met Farmer? I am wondering about the dedication to farmer in Stranger.
AGplusone: like the Zenna Henderson interview?
BPRAL22169: Yup. That actually got published, though.
billdennis2nd: I don’t have a transcript, but I do have the tape sitting around somewhere.
CHASGRAFT has left the room.
SAcademy: Yes, I’ve met him and Bette.
billdennis2nd: Farmer and I both live in Peoria. I was at his home for the interview. I was too young and foolish to
billdennis2nd: appreciate it, though.
SAcademy: What about that dedication?
SAcademy: Robert admired his work
billdennis2nd: Well, although I think there are some interesting simularities, it seems that Mr. Heinlein and Farme
billdennis2nd: Farmer would have too many difficulties to appreciate each other’s work. The dedication
billdennis2nd: was a surprise to me.
AGplusone: The form of Stranger similar to Riverworld … anatomaic? Bill?
BPRAL22169: To your Scattered bodies Go isn’t really an anatomy.
billdennis2nd: I am glad RAH appreciated Famrer. They are No. 1 and 2 on my list.
BPRAL22169: I don’t recall noticing it of the others.
AGplusone: Just wondering … have very little recollection of it.
BPRAL22169: Picaresque
billdennis2nd: The main protagonist of “Bodies” is Sir Richard Burton.
billdennis2nd: Not to be confused with Lix Taylor’s ex-husband.
BPRAL22169: Richard Francis Burton
FraSprea has entered the room.
AGplusone: I thought it was more a Picaresque ‘journey’ novel too
AGplusone: book
DavidWrightSr: Has anyone read ‘Two Hawks from Earth’ by Farmer?
AGplusone: work
BPRAL22169: It could be done — it has been done before — Don Quixote.
billdennis2nd: hmmm…. “The World as Myth” seems to give us the same opportunity as “Riverworld” to print authors
Gaeltachta: The SIASL dedication continues… “Notice: All men, gods and planets in this story are
SAcademy: You mean the original Sir Richard Burton
billdennis2nd: into fiction as real characters.
Gaeltachta: imaginary. Any coincidence of names is regretted.”
BPRAL22169: This is the 19th century one, not the 16th century one.
billdennis2nd: Another similarity!
AGplusone: Hi, Fra
billdennis2nd: Sir Richard Burton is another of the rugged indovidualists Farmer and Heinlein liked to write about.
AGplusone: It must be almost 2 AM in Italy
OakMan 7111: Hi Francesco!
FraSprea: Hello everybody
billdennis2nd: Well, now that I have started an interesting topic, I must leave.
SAcademy: Hello Francesco
Gaeltachta: Hi Francesco.
billdennis2nd: Howdy FRancesco. Bye.
AGplusone: We all have to leave in about 15 minutes
billdennis2nd has left the room.
AGplusone: maybe we could talk some day about the form of Stranger and why it isn’t a novel
AGplusone: one of the more interesting parts of your book, Bill
AGplusone: Find ourselves looking, goodness sakes, at Carlyle and Swift et al.
AGplusone: scary
TAWN3: Have you already gotten a copy of Bil’s book David?
AGplusone: Yes, got here yesterday
TAWN3: Ah!
TAWN3: I saw the publishing date was moved up.
AGplusone: but I saw it in a slightly different form … once before
Gaeltachta: My copy will take awhile to get here 🙁
OakMan 7111: If Gulliver’s Travels can become a hit miniseries, and the Oddessy, why not Stranger?
FraSprea: Mine won’t be here till next week (Jim said)
AGplusone: why not. Saw O Brother last night too. Last night was watch rented movies
AGplusone: Oh Brother is a take on Oddessy
Gaeltachta: Any good? I’m watching it tonight.
OakMan 7111: did not know that
AGplusone: believe it or not … I enjoyed it
Gaeltachta: My Dad recommended it.
AGplusone: amusing and kinda fun to watch
Gaeltachta: He mentioned the Oddessy connection.
OakMan 7111: I recently saw the Kirk Douglas movie
OakMan 7111: that was terrible
AGplusone: which one?
OakMan 7111: Ullyses
TAWN3: Why didn’t you like the Kirk Douglas movie Jon?
TAWN3: I loved it.
OakMan 7111: too many dubs
TAWN3: Oh.
AGplusone: It’s fascinating the way authors go back and file serial numbers off …
OakMan 7111: Dougllas was fine, so I shouldn’t say terrible, but the other voices were all false
TAWN3: I vividly remember the scene when he confronts the courtiers. Had a impresion on me as a youth.
AGplusone: Mowgli + the New Testament + Gulliver + what else in Stranger?
OakMan 7111: Shakespeare did that for a living – file the numbers off of Jew Of Malta and come up with
OakMan 7111: Merchant of venice
AGplusone: The bow stringing is the greatest resolution of suspense scene in literature
AGplusone: You say: at last!
SAcademy: Well there just aren’t any new stories!
TAWN3: Yes!
TAWN3: Whips of the rags, and walla (sp)
AGplusone: And then you settle back for the boys to try to get away ….
TAWN3: 🙂
AGplusone: and, guess what, they don’t make it.
TAWN3: I remember it vididly to this day. Burned into my memory for some reason. A wrong righted.
AGplusone: Yes.
OakMan 7111: dont get me wrong – I loved it when I first saw it
TAWN3: Arrow through all the ax heads and that’s all she wrote!
AGplusone: You can imagine the bard singing it, suspense, suspense, then finally …. end of the line.
fgherman has entered the room.
TAWN3: One of myall time favorite scenes for some reason.
TAWN3: Lost my bold.
SAcademy: Nice to see you Felicia
OakMan 7111: want some of mine?
AGplusone: Hi, Felicia
OakMan 7111: Hi Felicia
TAWN3: Yes, plase.
fgherman: Hello all
TAWN3: Hi Felicia.
AGplusone: just about over, believe it or not we were just talking about the bow-stringing
OakMan 7111: right click in the input box and you should get a chance to put it back
fgherman: Better late than never
AGplusone: scene in Oddyssey
fgherman: One of my favorites
AGplusone: a word I can never spell
AGplusone: I think everyone who’s actually read through it feels that way …
fgherman: Those suitors got what was coming to them
OakMan 7111: But it’s best in the original Klingon
TAWN3: Well, it is the culmination of the entire book, isn’t it?
TAWN3: LOLOL
AGplusone: sure was …
TAWN3: So is Shakespeare!
BPRAL22169: Certainly a possibility– when enough people have read it. maybe in the fall?
AGplusone: I think we might …
AGplusone: well, ’tis time to say good night. David there’s an illusion to someone named Leeper you should cut,
OakMan 7111: Legend actually has a lot to do with the King Must Die – he who marries the Queen is the King, until
AGplusone: as well as my blind pig comment.
OakMan 7111: there’s a problem or 7 years have passed
AGplusone: Please before we got started.
AGplusone: about AOL powers and stuff
fgherman: Just think… Homer’s Odyssey as directed by Quentin Tarantino
AGplusone: allusion
BPRAL22169: *Sigh*
OakMan 7111: well, it’s time for patches’s shot
OakMan 7111: I must go
DavidWrightSr: Allusion to Leeper and a lot of comments the three of us had at the beginning
AGplusone: Hope she’s better … yep.
fgherman: I feel like Capt. Spaulding
DavidWrightSr: ?
AGplusone: Just got to heaven and found the angels unfriendly
fgherman: Hello, I must be going
OakMan 7111: you dont look like Capt. Spaulding…bye
OakMan 7111 has left the room.
fgherman: “How an elephant got in my pajamas, I’ll never know.”
AGplusone: It may have been the little one in Jerry Was a Man. He might fit.
BPRAL22169: Groucho Marx — Karl Marx. between them, they define the 20th century.
fgherman: I guess I’ll read the transcript to find out what I missed
TAWN3: Lonnon and Lenin?
BPRAL22169: The true Marx brothers…
fgherman: Don’t forget Lennon
BPRAL22169: But would that be the Lennon/Lenin sisters?
TAWN3: I have the Lennon and Marx Radio Theatre album tucked away somewhere. Natuional lampoon.
fgherman: *groan*
fgherman: No, Fireside Theater
TAWN3: Been awhile!
TAWN3: 🙂
fgherman: “All Hail Lennon & Marx”
BPRAL22169: “The one with the ever-widening hole in it!”
TAWN3: But Fireside was National Lampoon, wasn’t it?
BPRAL22169: But it’s really true that “Everything you know is wrong.”
fgherman: “He’s no fun, he fell right over.”
BPRAL22169: Firesign Theatre was NOT National Lampoon.
fgherman: I had the terrifying experience of riding an elevator with Phil Proctor & Dave Osman
fgherman: 50% of Fireside theater
BPRAL22169: yes, that would be terrifying.
Gaeltachta: Time for me to go. Hoo roo.
BPRAL22169: You still see Proctor around now and again.
BPRAL22169: on TV, I mean.
Gaeltachta has left the room.
fgherman: I even mad e the mistake of saying, “and here we are”
fgherman: Fortunately, they didn’t hear me
TAWN3: OK, if you all say so, been awhile since I listened to it. Like twenty years!
BPRAL22169: “and here we are.”
fgherman: *whe*
BPRAL22169: It could have been worse: you could have said “Don’t crush that dwarf — hand me the pliers.”
BPRAL22169: Or “We’re ALL bozos on this elevator.”
fgherman: we were all bozos on that elevator
BPRAL22169: honk-honk.
fgherman: Don’t squeze the wheeze”
DavidWrightSr: Folks. I haven’t yet finished Thursday’s log…
BPRAL22169: OK, gentles, time to go.
AGplusone: okay … have to go now … got log, Dave
DavidWrightSr: so I [might] just put it together with this one and publish just the one
fgherman: It’s been lovely while it lasted
BPRAL22169: Bad, David, Bad bad.
AGplusone: ?
AGplusone: or need backup?
SAcademy: Nite, all.
DavidWrightSr: Yeah I know
fgherman: no doughnut
SAcademy has left the room.
AGplusone: night Ginny
fgherman: Good night Ginny
fgherman: bye
BPRAL22169: There wasn’t much material from the Tursday meeting. We all had trouble concentrating.
DavidWrightSr: Faster than a speeding Jane
BPRAL22169: ciao.
fgherman has left the room.
BPRAL22169 has left the room.
DavidWrightSr: Log officially closed at 08:07 P.M. EDT
DavidWrightSr: Night Folks.
FraSprea: I’l say good bye too, then, night!
TAWN3: Good night Ginny.
DavidWrightSr: Everyone stay and chat if you wish. Good Night
Final End Of Discussion Log
