Heinlein Reader’s Discussion Group Saturdat 02-09-2002 5:00 P.M. Heinlein’s Mysteries

Heinlein Reader’s Discussion Group

Saturdat 02-09-2002 5:00 P.M.

Heinlein’s Mysteries

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Here Begin The A.F.H. postings

>Shell Scott, of the white caterpillar eyebrows….

…….also one of my favorites……….

>At least no one has brought up the “baens” of the early 70s genre, the
>Executioner and The Destroyer….

Thank Bog



……..but there is H G. Tapley and Bartholamew Gill………..
charles krin wrote:

> On 04 Feb 2002 22:19:42 GMT, (David M. Silver)
> wrote:
>>Yet, as I noted in another thread, Heinlein enjoyed and kept, even after he
>>culled his library down when moving to Carmel, MacDonald’s writings. I suspect
>>he enjoyed what MacDonald did in the last series he finally settled upon
>>writing, the Travis McGee ones, inventing a figure who kept, despite his
>>cynicism, galloping off to rescue fair maidens in that rusty armor, aboard the
>>spavined steed. I suggest perhaps he enjoyed these stories because they took
>>the genre hero in the direction he might have taken him: cf. Oscar, Colin
>>Campbell/Richard Ames, Hartley Baldwin …
>Ok…does that make Gay Deceiver the functional equivalent of Miss (?)
>Agnes? or of the Busted Flush?
>country doc in louisiana
>(no fancy sayings right now)

Neither, I’d say. Instead, I say the Muรฑequita. ๐Ÿ˜‰

David M. Silver

“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

>Ok…does that make Gay Deceiver the functional equivalent of Miss (?)
>Agnes? or of the Busted Flush?
>country doc in louisiana
>(no fancy sayings right now)


But, LL is RAH’s Meyer.


charles krin wrote:

>Shell Scott, of the white caterpillar eyebrows….

I never knocked his eyebrows. They weren’t as bad as Ed McBain’s Cotton Hawes’ scar; and besides, I thought Shell had a neat way of preparing and eating soft-boiled eggs, bacon and toast. I still eat it that way.

David M. Silver

“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

Go To Postings

Here Begins The Discussion Log

You have just entered room “Heinlein Readers Group chat.”

AGplusone has entered the room.

rjjutah has entered the room.

Paradis402 has entered the room.

rjjutah: Has everyone already come and gone?

AGplusone: the clans seem to be gathering …

AGplusone: no, we’re all early, just sitting here.

Paradis402: Hi everyone!

AGplusone: Hi, Denis.

AGplusone: Dunno if David is here or away … but he’s logging

AGplusone: he went shopping with his wife I think

Paradis402: Hi David. Big crowd expected?

rjjutah: Oh, I was thinking I was late, but I guess it actually starts at 3:00 MST, instead of 2:00 MST. Getting hard to keep track of things anymore.

AGplusone: It is hard. I dunno. think we might get some

AGplusone: That was a good chat Thursday

rjjutah: I guess I have a few minutes to look over the log to see what I missed before I got there.

AGplusone: I read the new DeMille in my spare time this week

AGplusone: Good log, Randy

AGplusone: Nice to read a Vietnam story by someone who was actually there.

rjjutah: David, do you want me to keep a backup log, or are you doing that.

AGplusone: Please, more keeping it the better

AGplusone: Anyone know about old folk like us getting lasix surgery

Paradis402: Whafor David?

rjjutah: Have you been following the thread over in SFF-heinlein discussion about Lasix?

AGplusone: a little

rjjutah: Yes, I think I have your number in my auxillary brain aka Mr. Palm.

AGplusone: I’ve been myopic all my life and now I’m getting to the bifocal stage with computers

AGplusone: headaches from long time on them

AGplusone: wore contacts for years … don’t anymore because I don’t like soft lenses

rjjutah: I haven’t been following the laser surgery thing, because the AF still won’t let us get it. They have some test cases, but still not acceptable for the rest of us.

AGplusone: and I can’t read with the myopic correction in

AGplusone: be nice to be able to both read and drive with no glasses

rjjutah: Besides, I have a weird set of eyes: one is nearsighted and one is far sighted and they actually just switch back and forth on their own. My optometrist says not too many people have that situation, but he thinks

rjjutah: I might go a good long while before I need bifocals, if ever.

SAcademy has entered the room.

AGplusone: Sounds good. I’ve only hit the bifocal problem, which I “solve” by simply taking off my regular glasses when I read, only since I was about fifty

Paradis402: My ears I can do without, but my eyes are something else. I sympathize with Ginny.

Paradis402: Hi Ginny.

AGplusone: ” . . . and you hear her wings.”

SAcademy: Good evening all.

AGplusone: ๐Ÿ™‚

Paradis402: Yes:-)

AGplusone: good evening

rjjutah: Good evening, Ginny.

AGplusone: I’ve been thinking about TEFL, Cat, and Number since Thursday.

AGplusone: And looking at Mistress too.

Paradis402: And?

AGplusone: I think we’re right in that wild theory …

SAcademy: And have you come to any conclusions?

AGplusone: I think RAH was struggling with whether to kill Laz (or revive him) and revive Mike Holmes

AGplusone: since Mistress and TEFL

AGplusone: He did kill Ted Bronson, but hinted at a resurrection in TEFL

AGplusone: and Cat is really about reviving Mike

SAcademy: If I did know, I wouldn’t tell

Paradis402: ๐Ÿ˜€

AGplusone: so we get into World as Myth to do it

AGplusone: and who does it? Authors

AGplusone: Richard Ames/Colin Campbell and Hazel/Gwen

AGplusone: I was surprised when Laz popped into Number

AGplusone: totally unexpected

AGplusone: did the ‘unpublishable’ Number have that ending, Ginny?

SAcademy: BTW, what was Jane saying about working? At what?

Paradis402: Maybe the Library?

AGplusone: she’s got a small job, working in a shop or something

KultsiKN has entered the room.

AGplusone: Hi, Kultsi

KultsiKN: Good evening, all!

Paradis402: Hello Kultsi.

SAcademy: Evening Kultsi

AGplusone: read the log Kultsi?

AGplusone: for thursday?

KultsiKN: Sorry, no.

SAcademy: Sokay, I haven’t either.

AGplusone: We got into a question at the end of it, whether RAH was thinking about killing off/reviving Laz from TEFL onward, doing a Sherlock Holmes as many mystery authors do with their series characters

AGplusone: and I just thought about Mike Holmes in the same book: Cat, and how he revives him out of the blue

AGplusone: and, oddly, uses a disability retired military turned writer to do it

AGplusone: i.e., Colin Campbell

AGplusone: If you think, as I do, that Mike had to be killed at the end of Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, to give the Loonies a chance to govern themselves, and then … when the Lunar Republic they establish goes into decline by the time Cat comes

AGplusone: along, then it’s appropriate to or safe to bring Mike back … because his control won’t poison that Libertarian experiment

AGplusone: Since you’ve revived Laz (killed as Ted Bronson) from the end of TEFL …

KultsiKN: It’s clear that Mike was a crutch by the end of Moon

AGplusone: why not revive the other crutch (just as Laz was a crutch depended upon in TEFL)

AGplusone: The reason they involuntarily revive Laz in TEFL is they don’t know what to do about the decline of Secundus

KultsiKN: Yup. I was just coming to that — LL had superior knowledge

BPRAL22169 has entered the room.

AGplusone: and the reason they want to revive Mike is they don’t know what to do about the Time Changers in Cat

AGplusone: or the Black Hats, or those other, other guys

BPRAL22169: Hi — I’m afraid I can’t stay — have to go to the post office to get the Journal to the printer.

BPRAL22169: Justpopping in to say hello.

KultsiKN: Hi, Bill!

Paradis402: Hello Bill.

AGplusone: okay … we’re talking about the reasons to revive or regenerate Mike Holmes as similar to those in TEFL to bring back Laz

AGplusone: they need the superior knowledge as Kultsi just said

BPRAL22169: I think they needed Mike’s personality — Teena and Minerva will have a companion who went through the same thing.

AGplusone: sort of a spin-off from our discussion of whether/why RAH might have wanted to kill them off, like the bored mystery story protagonist, Sherlock Holmes

AGplusone: That’s part of it.

AGplusone: And you’d think they’d plan to find a body for Mike bye-n-bye

AGplusone: as they did for Minerva

AGplusone: or Dora … I forget just now

BPRAL22169: funny how fashion has changed. Back then we had computers becoming humans; now the fashion is for humans becoming computers — Uploading the personality.

AGplusone: another revival … Libby, and Maureen, of course

BPRAL22169: Extropian.

Paradis402: Nice word.

AGplusone: And Poddy in a bit role in Number

BPRAL22169: It’s what they call themselves.

BPRAL22169: I’m afraid I must go. Ciao all.

BPRAL22169 has left the room.

AGplusone: okay …

AGplusone: and Dr. Johnson at the end of To Sail

AGplusone: I just detect competing motivations with these

AGplusone: at least in Cat

AGplusone: On the one hand, kill’em, OTOH, bring ’em back alive

AGplusone: kill ’em through surrogates … like Colin

AGplusone: except Laz talks the author into undertaking the mission and the author in 50% of the missions dies

AGplusone: it’s provoking to me

AGplusone: I wanna know, whatinhellzgoingon?

AGplusone: some ambivalence

AGplusone: /gaanyone please

KultsiKN: David, that’s an interesting point — and worth further analysis.

KultsiKN: Care to do an in-depth on the group or the Journal?

AGplusone: arrgh

AGplusone: might be a topic, but it’s very esoteric

AGplusone: maybe that’s why the last few novels are so disconcerting to some

AGplusone: conflicting signals

KultsiKN: Yes; p’raps that’s why I like so much.

AGplusone: Or, me too … make me think

KultsiKN: Food for thought

AGplusone: what did Doyle, for example, if he did, write about the compulsion to bring Sherlock Holmes back … and does anyone think the Mycroft Holmes and Mike Holmes usage was merely coincidental?

AGplusone: Did RAH all along plan to revive Mike?

AGplusone: Manny shows up in Cat of course, but Manny also ends Moon with the trip back to see if Mike has revived

AGplusone: ‘just sleeping’ down there, he still maintains

AGplusone: and from Methuselah’s Children on there’s a great deal abut revival, long live, brain transplants, a major theme … living longer

AGplusone: long life

KultsiKN: ‘Mike’ was programming, of course, and any programming can be restored unless purged.

AGplusone: fear of death, starting over, a real theme that permeates

AGplusone: Yes

AGplusone: getting rid of the illnesses that prematurely kill … Rod’s dad in Tunnel, the other cold slepers in Door Into Summer

AGplusone: predicting death from the very first story come to think of it

rjjutah: Maybe that is another reason why Robert didn’t do any more mysteries.

Paradis402: Immortality is one of man’s oldest themes. But I don’t think it was Robert’s main theme in his books.

AGplusone: If we could just snip into the thread and add a few feet or years or centuries

AGplusone: but it sure permeates

Paradis402: Sure. Appeals to people.

AGplusone: but by the time of Number, what else is in there? excepting Friday

Paradis402: Huh?

AGplusone: who is: among other things, the reinvention of the Greenes from “Gulf”

Paradis402: Another theme permeates. Love.

AGplusone: In Number, the four travelers beat the clock by skipping universes … and Laz is restored to life, surprise (he was dead, wasn’t he, bullet from WWI)

AGplusone: In Job, Alec lives on into Heaven and Magda is restored

KultsiKN: Was he? The ending _is_ vague, to say the least.

AGplusone: and they go into the new Millenium ruled by Jerry Farnsworth

AGplusone: In Cat, the mission is bring back Mike …

rjjutah: In many ways, mysteries are character studies, and the key is figuring out who dunnit and why. But in many cases, the fact that someone died, and their life’s activities are cut short is not given too much attention.

rjjutah: Heinlein was more about what could be done with a life and where it might lead.

Paradis402: NO. NO. NO. If I were to discover religion, I’d look in Job.

AGplusone: Yes, he was …

AGplusone: but why the fixation on bringing ’em all back

Paradis402: NO. was reference to Jerry Farnsworth.

AGplusone: fixation isn’t what I really believe it was, but

AGplusone: No, I was replying to Randy

rjjutah: Maybe because they weren’t finished with what they wanted to do, just like Robert knew he would never have enough time to do all the things he wanted to do….

AGplusone: In To Sail, first we bring back Maureen and then Dr. Johnson

AGplusone: In TEFL, first Laz, and then Libby

Paradis402: Randy has a good thread there.

AGplusone: In IWFNE, bring back Johann, then the lawyer …

AGplusone: And of course, Valentine Michael winds up back at his usual job after Stranger …. in the third stage of development for a Martian, or angel, take your pick

rjjutah: Think about the title of Time Enough for Love. No matter how hot the flame burns initially, it takes time for real heat to be built up, if you want to cook something properly.

AGplusone: lots of ‘afterlives’

AGplusone: and extra lives

rjjutah: Gaining knowledge is not something that happens instantly – it takes Time Enough to Know.

AGplusone: I think so

AGplusone: How many lives did Hoag have to live to become a good ‘critic’

rjjutah: And few things good get done in a day – it takes Time Enough to Build

AGplusone: Hoag reminds me of Alice Douglas … after each assignment, he has to be sent to the hospital to be revived … like Laz has to be rejuvenated

AGplusone: Has to be told to not think about his job … during his time off

rjjutah: With the love, knowledge, and desire that Robert showed in constructing his worlds, how could he not want extra time to make sure that it was done right? What Author doesn’t want to go back and fix his work to get it just so?

AGplusone: Another rehearsal?

Paradis402: Randy. You are HOT tonight. Good comments!

AGplusone: another erasure to redo

rjjutah: Thou art God?

AGplusone: Another look at Laz through another set of eyes

rjjutah: I suppose I am hot – the thermometer has jumped all the way up to 20 today – a real heat wave here. ๐Ÿ™‚

Paradis402: ๐Ÿ™‚

AGplusone: Laz, and then through Justin Foote, etc., then through Hilda, et al, and then thru colin, and then thru mom.

AGplusone: That’s five looks, right?

KultsiKN: The temp here is about 33 — at midnight.

AGplusone: The Five Faces of Lazurus (semble: Five Faces of Eve)

AGplusone: or did she only have three?

rjjutah: Three

AGplusone: Remember when Jill in Stranger changes appearance from one goddess to another in the Circle advancement ceremony?

AGplusone: Almost as bad as killing the god at Como who guards the golden branch each year

rjjutah: One question to ask is, Did each of those looks focus on a particular aspect of Lazarus, or were they just five different “general” perspectives? I’ll have to think about that some.

Paradis402: Ginny. Can you help us here?

AGplusone: I’ve overcomplicated it, I’m sure, but this is sort of brainstorming with the handicap of not really using your brain.

rjjutah: To go back to my background, maybe each of the individuals/groups that Lazarus interacted with was an “experiment” meant to reveal certain aspects of the fundamental nature of Lazarus, and how and why those aspects changed with time

AGplusone: okay, let’s look at it: MC is what?

rjjutah: Hammer – can’t touch that! ๐Ÿ™‚

Paradis402: MasterCard?

AGplusone: Laz the reluctant leader, the one clearthinker?

Paradis402: Sorry :-$

AGplusone: prophet whose time has come

AGplusone: He bailed in the meeting of 2012, now he’s been proven right … time to do something directly

AGplusone: not go with the flow the masqueade

rjjutah: The Cassandra?

AGplusone: be an actor, not a reactor

AGplusone: and he convinces his Society to be actors as a whole, everyone goes along, except those few who stay behind

AGplusone: Is it the same thing in TEFL?

AGplusone: he skims the cream only then

AGplusone: and then they go do other things … revive Libby, go home again, get killed himself

rjjutah: We see him acting in many different roles there, usually as a leader, but sometimes from behind the curtain….

KultsiKN: From behind the curtain is safer for your favorite skin…

AGplusone: But what’s the purpose of all the stories?

AGplusone: Any one of which could have been a separate novel

rjjutah: To illuminate the different aspects of the true essence of the character? To show that the character is the summation of many parts and paths?

AGplusone: Perhaps

AGplusone: to teach what?

KultsiKN: That one changes during a life?

AGplusone: Dave Lamb, for example, is the guy who goes along to get along

AGplusone: and really sort of a waste

AGplusone: least effort

rjjutah: That the universe is a complicated place, inhabited by complicated characters, and the simple answer is not always the most complete.

AGplusone: And the Twins that weren’t? What do they teach?

AGplusone: If you clap your hands a fairy godfather will come along and give you a chance?

KultsiKN: Living BY the Expectations Will Bring Problems

rjjutah: That a complex, complicated author is also the summation of his life’s activities as well as a reflection of the characters that he creates and interacts with – “real” and “imagined”.

AGplusone: Dora’s tale is wonderful, of course.

AGplusone: But isn’t it all about the Chinese obligation that if you save a life you’re obliged to carry through with that life?

rjjutah: A tale of love, and perspective, and the price that must be paid, for a “pearl of great price”

AGplusone: Can you imagine Dave Lamb doing what “Bill” does?

Paradis402: Lazarus gave us a hint in his lecture on the difference between Love agape and eros.

AGplusone: [Lamb would drop her off at an orphanage, and skip town]

AGplusone: What hint, Denis?

Paradis402: It’s a major theme in most of his works. At least to me.

AGplusone: You get what you put into it?

Paradis402: A higher form of man. One who thinks with his mind instead of his nuts.

rjjutah: But when one takes in a kitten, one initally only sees the costs and responsibilities. But over time, one realizes the benefits, and those benefits are different in each stage, between kitten, and cat, and Master of all surveyed…

Paradis402: Yes. Love of that sort too.

AGplusone: All Lamb gets is his hammock and a pension?

AGplusone: a very early pension

AGplusone: And he’s the classic lazy doesn’t want to stare at the south end of a north bound mule all his life.

Paradis402: Refresh me. Lamb is the guy who owned the mule?

AGplusone: Whereas, Laz in Happy Valley doubtlessly did a lot of staring.

rjjutah: Maybe we shouldn’t be too hard on Lamb, not everyone aspires to have the maximum amount from life, sometimes they only want the optimum amount, and that is different for different people.

Paradis402: That sounds like RAH, Randy.

AGplusone: Lamb is the bright hillbilly who was Too Lazy to Fail, goes to Annapolis, retired early, etc., goes back the the hills and lays in his hammock all day, sipping cider or whatever.

AGplusone: Never hear about his wife, kids, love ….

AGplusone: so far as we know, there’s only a huge amount of self-love motivating him

AGplusone: Gets to put on his tailgate promoted Admiral’s uniform every fourth of July, walk down the mountain, sit on a chair behind the podium and listen to the speeches, up front there

Paradis402: That Lamb may have been based on a real character.

AGplusone: I understand he was, to an extent, re getting the daughter pregnant.

rjjutah: Thinking back to what Lazarus says about “specialization,” he in effect is saying it’s better to be “good enough” at many things, than the best at a few things, because you never know what the universe, and it Author, is going to

rjjutah: throw at you.

Paradis402: Indeed!

AGplusone: Lamb never got a lot thrown at him that he didn’t manage to dodge for something easier to do

SAcademy: Funny thing is–it’s a true story.

AGplusone: found that niche and stayed in it

Paradis402: I suspect as much, Ginny.

SAcademy: The man was a classmate of Robert’s

SAcademy: Oh, there are some small embellishments to the story., But basically it’s true.

AGplusone: But Lamb’s not Lazarus, is he? [Fading into the woodwork is the option Laz took he sez, but he really didn’t, did he?]

Paradis402: Thank you!

rjjutah: Yes, Lamb dodged many things, but he also dodged opportunity. That’s the trade-off: with great success comes the opportunity for great failure. If one can’t handle failure, then one will probably miss success. Live Large!

SAcademy: No, he wasn’t Lazarus.

SAcademy: His name was Delos Wait.

AGplusone: Okay, then in TEFL Laz lives large?

AGplusone: Even if he becomes a little hard to take with all that advice he gives everyone.

Paradis402: Always. That’s Lazarus.

AGplusone: Which really gets to be a PITA by the time of Number when Hilda, Deety, and the two husbands run into him.

rjjutah: Sure! Isn’t every encounter with love a risk? The possibility of failure, but the possibility of great love. Without the bitter, how can one appreciate the sweet. The costs and the benefits of loving Dora.

rjjutah: The opportunity to soar high, and fall low, after her death.

SAcademy: After Robert died, Delos Wait wrote to me and asked whether I knew that he was the model for Lamb?

AGplusone: And maybe all that obnoxiousness is a test of Hilda and Deety?

Paradis402: He wanted confirmation Ginny.

SAcademy: Well, I told him that I knew it. I told Robert to write that story, because life isn’t that way very often.

AGplusone: Wait was lucky if he got away with it.

AGplusone: But did the whispers keep him from advancement?

Paradis402: Wait must have fet very flattered.

Paradis402: Felt.

AGplusone: Might that be why he stayed in little puddles?

rjjutah: Maybe a test to see if Hilda and Deety were worth an investment of time – the most precious of capital.

rjjutah: Ginny, did you and/or Robert ever make it to Northern Utah? I’m curious, because the description of the setting in the Number of the Beast is pretty much like it is here.

AGplusone: And is obnoxiousness a way to manipulate Colin?

rjjutah: It’s a stick – sometimes a big one, sometimes a small one, depending upon the personality of the person on the receiving end.

AGplusone: Colin really doesn’t want to be a hero anymore. Lost one leg.

AGplusone: Been there, done that, wore out the teeshirt

AGplusone: I’d think annoying him might be the only way.

rjjutah: I would think that it might be hard to turn one’s back on being a hero, since it is a very fundamental feature of one’s makeup.

AGplusone: But is Laz the same in Number and in Cat?

AGplusone: yeah, well, look down at the stump …

Paradis402: Window dressing.

AGplusone: maybe … so long as there’s a clone available. That helped

rjjutah: I think Laz is – remember how he tried to manipulate Hilda when first interacting with her?

AGplusone: Yes

AGplusone: and Maureen knows all about her son’s habits of manipulation

rjjutah: I would think so, since he started so early. Ride to the park, anyone?

AGplusone: It’s just his wives/mother/clones learn to deal with it, which is why they last.

AGplusone: move a chesspiece when you’re not looking

AGplusone: lose thumb in some places I know

rjjutah: An ability to recognize and deal with manipulation is a very important survival trait, since the Universe and the Author do it so much to us.

AGplusone: LOL

AGplusone: ever since at least Gulf

rjjutah: And taking this back to our initial topic, manipulation is one of the skills that the resolver of the who dunnit often needs.

DenvToday has entered the room.

AGplusone: Hi, Ron. Want log to catch up?

DenvToday: Hello everybody!

DenvToday: Thanks! Sure.

Paradis402: Hi Denv.

rjjutah: Got Log? ๐Ÿ™‚

DenvToday: lol rj

SAcademy: Good evening.

DenvToday: Good evening ๐Ÿ™‚

SAcademy: It’s dark out here.

DenvToday: It’s getting a bit dark here in Denver. Nasty weather today.

SAcademy: More snow?

DenvToday: No, not yet. But we may get a bit tonight.

AGplusone: Break for maybe ten minutes?

DenvToday: Very heavy winds and dark clouds.

AGplusone: [sent]

Paradis402: Good idea. Coffee

rjjutah: Actually, it’s quite nice here, today, along the Wasatch Front. The mountains are beautiful no matter which direction you look.

SAcademy: Yes, I loved the mountains. But now I live in the flattest state.

AGplusone: I love the mountains and snow, so long as I have to drive about two hours to get to them …

rjjutah: My grandparents used to live in New Port Richey. Got to see them down there once or twice while they were still alive.

AGplusone: only when I’m in the mood.

DenvToday: rj, how close are you to the Olympics?

rjjutah: Well, to get to the mountains from my house, you have to drive about 5 minutes.

AGplusone: ๐Ÿ™‚

rjjutah: Ron, I’m about 90 miles north of Salt Lake City.

rjjutah: Close enough, in my opinion.

AGplusone: Big Bear is two hours …

AGplusone: maybe two and a half

AGplusone: Big Bear is about 6,500 feet up in the San Bernardino mountains

DenvToday: Still close enough to see an event or two during a day trip.

rjjutah: Hope to see some of the Russian figure skaters here, next week. They, and the French skaters have been practicing up here. As well as several of the hockey teams.

KultsiKN: Ours?

rjjutah: Close enough, if one is into self abuse via vehicle and traffic.

SAcademy: Watch that Ilya Kulik. He’s terriffic.

DenvToday: rofl rj True

rjjutah: I think it is the Swiss and Russian teams that are practising here.

AGplusone: I now have reinforced coffee.

SAcademy: The figure skaters?

DenvToday: David, thank goodness for caffeine.

DenvToday: And the other lovely stuff that goes well with coffee.

rjjutah: The person who is teaching my Russian refresher class is doing interpreting for the Russian figure skaters, and she is going to try and set up a meeting with them next week, after they have finished their events.

AGplusone: and also burnt wine

DenvToday: Nature invented Brandy for coffee. Just a personal theory of mine.

SAcademy: Ilya Kulik should speak English, He lives in Mass.

rjjutah: But doesn’t Brandy complain if hot coffee gets spilled on her?

AGplusone: Besides Denis, brandy, and most of their cheeses, what else was France good for?

DenvToday: My housekeeper is Russian/Georgian. She was an English literature teacher in Tbilisi. Her husband was a national figure in swimming and coaching.

AGplusone: [Rodin excepted]

DenvToday: Now he works in an office.

rjjutah: Keeping the Germans busy?

Paradis402: Nothing. I’m FrencoCanadian. I’m Biased.

DenvToday: rj, Bandy has never complained to me about it. And I’ve spilled plenty.

rjjutah: The Space Dynamics Laboratory, which is located here at USU does a lot of joint work with the Russian space program, so we have quite a few visitors here from mother Russia.

AGplusone: Crais is a cajun name, isn’t it, Denis?

SAcademy: How is your Russian these days, Denis. Mine is rusty

rjjutah: Would that be coffee you were spilling, or something else? And maybe we should let it just die there…..

Paradis402: I don’t know. It sound like it.

DenvToday: rj, you’re wise. Less said the better.

AGplusone: He’s from Louisiana

Paradis402: Ginny, I could never compete with your Russian.

DenvToday: I’ve gotten as far as Zdraveetyeh and Spasiba. That’s about it.

SAcademy: You’ve written me letters partly in Russian!

Paradis402: Thanks to you.

AGplusone: Does anyone know who “Otherp1ans” in the thursday chat was?

rjjutah: It’s hard to keep fluent in a language if you don’t keep using it. It was a lot easier to keep up in Spanish when I was living in Las Cruces. Now, it’s time to get current in Russian again.

DenvToday: You could always move to Los Angeles and speak English. It’s a foreign language there.

AGplusone: t’anks, Ron

DenvToday: yvw lol

KultsiKN: Isn’t it in the all of U.S. of A?

rjjutah: That’s one of the interesting things about Utah. It’s the most multi-lingual state in the union.

DenvToday: Kult, more and more it is.

Paradis402: I don’t want to be fluent in Russian. I’d rather be fluent in Chinese.

AGplusone: besseme xxxx

AGplusone: er, mucho

DenvToday: I’m fluent in Kung pao chicken and Happy Family.

rjjutah: I’ve learned a smattering of Japanese words, because of martial arts, but most of my language study has been with romance, slavic and germanic languages.

DenvToday: In my misspent youth, I sang in most of the romance languages. It’s a great way to pick them up.

AGplusone: Watching UHF television in L.A. is another way.

Paradis402: I may sound ungrateful, since Ginny gave me most of here Russian stuff. But I believe she specialized in Russian for the visits.

SAcademy: Afh has recently had a thread on a world language. But there is one, and it is English.

AGplusone: even when they hate us

Paradis402: I agree with Ginny. Always.

SAcademy: No matter where you go, they all try out their English on you.

AGplusone: maybe that’s really why everyone hates the French, a residual of its prior status

AGplusone: as international language

rjjutah: When I was at West Point, one of my roommates spoke Hungarian, because his parents left Hungary when the Soviets invited themselves in. Another one was from Georgia. Nothing like hearing Russian with a Georgia accent.

rjjutah: Spacibo, you’all!

DenvToday: Mrs. Heinlein, that’s very true. I’m a sysop and a backgammon host for a Microsoft gaming website. It’s humbling the way so many “furriners” are fluent in English–especially the Turks.

Paradis402: The French have a complex complex. They should get over it. I’m not holding out high hopes.

jilyd has entered the room.

rjjutah: What can you expect from people who elevate a garden pest to a delicacy?

Paradis402: That’s not their worst fault. Actually snails are good.

AGplusone: I was watching the Nightline program on the kidnapping of the reporter from the WSJ and amazed how fluent some of those e mails were

DenvToday: rj, in my experience, the French have much in commone with garden slugs.

AGplusone: Hi, Jil

SAcademy: We left a ship at Istanbul–on the Asian side. Guide books said all Turks spoke French. So I tried it. No one recognized a word. So we had to use sign language to get through customs.

Paradis402: Exactly. Denv.

rjjutah: What happens when you put salt on one of them? What an experiment!

jilyd: Hi, David, it’s Dee2. (In case you forgot who jilyd is)

AGplusone: snails? they burn up don’t they

Paradis402: They taste better?

DenvToday: Perhaps it’s just a self-selective group, but most of the Turks have two passions–backgammon and the English language.

AGplusone: I did.

AGplusone: Hi, Dee!

Paradis402: Hi Dee.

DenvToday: Hello Dee ๐Ÿ™‚

SAcademy: Hello, Dee.

KultsiKN: Hello, Dee!

DenvToday: Hmmmm…I’m not sure if the French taste better. I’d like to find out.

AGplusone: You missed Russian with a Georgian accent.

jilyd: Well, I haven’t chatted in awhile, I know. Coming in late to this discussion, but snails are delicious with garlic butter. Of course, most things are delicious with garlic butter.:-)

rjjutah: Not snails, the French! I’ve had to deal with some French military people in my time. I’d rather deal with the enemy.

AGplusone: even if you’re from next door

rjjutah: Even a 2×4 tastes good with garlic butter!

DenvToday: lol so very true

AGplusone: True

Paradis402: Put garlic butter on anything and stuff it in a shell and it tastes the same.

AGplusone: oysters, snails and mushrooms

rjjutah: Ahhh, the MYSTERIES of life…..

AGplusone: great sponges of taste

jilyd: rjjutah–reminds me of my father’s recipe for cooking carp.

AGplusone: ga

Paradis402: Goldfish?

jilyd: SAcad.–Is that Ginny?

rjjutah: Hot oil and hush puppies?

SAcademy: Yes.

AGplusone: have anything to do with drenching them in batter, spices, and frying

DenvToday: rj, now you’re talkin’! Good eatin’!

rjjutah has left the room.

DenvToday: If you can’t catch it and fry it in hog grease, it ain’t really food.

rjjutah has entered the room.

rjjutah: I didn’t grow up in the rural areas of Missouri for nothing…

DenvToday: wb rj

jilyd: Rjj–It’s a long complicated deal about nailing the fish to a board, amirnating, seasoning, grilling oh so carefully. Then you throw away the fish and eat the board.

DenvToday: lol

SAcademy: Should warn everyone. Don’t touch esc.

AGplusone: Had a recipe for deep fried avocados in thursday’s paper ….

AGplusone: as they do it in Texas ….

AGplusone: Chicken Fried Avocado!

Paradis402: Hot oil and shoes is typically French. Get out the Guillotine.

AGplusone: stuffed with chicken

SAcademy: Cook avocados? Sacrilege.

DavidWrightSr: Hi Folks. I’m baaaack. Sorry I had to be away.

jilyd: Never could understand the appeal of avacados–they taste like soap to me. (and sound too much like “lawyers.”)

rjjutah: Hi, David

DenvToday: You can always tell a believer in personal liberty by his choice of foods. Generally, they eat what they like, to to hell with the current fad of what’s “healthful.”

AGplusone: I agreed. We laughed and laughed.

AGplusone: ’tis true … but I think of it as eating good lawyers.

SAcademy: Complaint. Can’;t read those light colors.

rjjutah: The highest aspiration of an avocado to be part of Guacamole, in my opinion.

Paradis402: They are very hard to read Ginny.

DenvToday: rj, that’s profound. And true.

AGplusone: Or wedges of avocado and grapefruit salad.

SAcademy: Not hard–impossible.

KultsiKN: Dee, try another font…

jilyd: Ginny, did you get a note from me yesterday?

rjjutah: Dee, you might want to Bold your font – it will make it easier to read.

AGplusone: [with shrimp]

SAcademy: No, I think I didn’t recognize your screen name and deleted it because of the viruses that aare aaround.

SAcademy: I apologize.

Paradis402: Torture, David. You are torturing us with food.

jilyd: Kultsi, how do I change the font in AIM? I only see how to bold, etc.

KultsiKN: at 2:00 am

Paradis402: Try some of Ginny’s Lobster?

DenvToday: I’m still recovering from mass quantities of Cheetohs and Ding Dongs from the Superbowl.

rjjutah: Spam, spam, spam, spam – nobody expects the Spanish ice inquisition

DenvToday: lol rj

KultsiKN: View/Edit chat prefs

AGplusone: Is there a little bar to the left of the B I U buttons?

jilyd: Ginny, I’ll send again. It had teh e-mail address for “Dr. JAWS” included, if you remember discussing JAWS.

rjjutah: That’s one of the things I like about Florida – the ready access to good seafood. And most of the fish I could see, were food!

KultsiKN: Then IM Chat

DavidWrightSr: With respect to viruses. McAfee sucks, Norton does a good job.

AGplusone: on Mac you have a font bar just to the left of it

Paradis402: Ginny knows exactly what to do with Lobster. Ask Snowy.

AGplusone: allowing this

AGplusone: Or this

AGplusone: or this

rjjutah: Well, cats expect to be treated well by their servants….

Paradis402: Ginny understands this perfectly, RJ.

AGplusone: but this is the best

DavidWrightSr: Whose sig is that says ‘dogs have masters, cats have staff’?

Paradis402: Stop showing off David!

DenvToday: lol David. That’s great!

AGplusone: there are trade-offs when you can’t blast terribly big holes through cyberspace

Paradis402: ๐Ÿ˜€

DenvToday: ๐Ÿ˜‰

SAcademy: I can’t recognize you Denis.

AGplusone: I think it’s Dogs have Masters, Cats have Slaves.

jilyd: Thanks, Kultsi! Is this better?

Paradis402: I don’t blame you Ginny. I’m bad tonight.

DenvToday: “Staff” is a better line.

KultsiKN: Yes, Dee!

AGplusone: I’ll ask Bob to change his preferred mode of address to me.

SAcademy: I vote for “Staff”

AGplusone: Maybe he’ll go for it.

AGplusone: If I give him lots of food off my dinner plate tonight

SAcademy: Huh! Bob is as spoiled as Snowy.

AGplusone: I woke up this morning. He was standing on my chest staring at me.

AGplusone: Said: feed me!

KultsiKN: My font is 10 point Comic Sans at 100%

jilyd: It’s supposed to be Arial 14pt. bold, but it just looks like Times Roman on my own screen.

AGplusone: I said: “yessir!”

rjjutah: No, Bob and Snowy aren’t spoiled, they are just exercising their “Divine Rights,” as they see them.

Paradis402: Exactly RJ. Snowy is royal.

KultsiKN: I find mine very readable; what do you think?

SAcademy: I use the same on Kultsi, But in 12 point I think.

DenvToday: Kult, it would be better in bold. And the light blue of your name is difficult to read.

jilyd: K.–It’s very readable, and I like seeing distinctive type for different leople. It’s like having a “voice.” Denv, your name ios coming over in yellow!

Paradis402: Our name colours are controlled by AOL. Can’t we do anything about that?

SAcademy: Trouble is no one gets to choose those colors–AOl decides that.

DenvToday: Really? I didn’t know that.

KultsiKN: Ron, your yellow is about the same…

AGplusone: my preferences are set so you all type in 10 or 12 point Comic Sans …. and all your names are bright blue.

DenvToday: Mine is yellow?? I’m seeing it as dark red.

AGplusone: And all of you are black

KultsiKN: I see mine as bright red

Paradis402: We are all red to ourselves, I think.

AGplusone: I see mine as bright red too.

DenvToday: Wow. Very strange.

DavidWrightSr: Everyone sees their own as red, I believe

KultsiKN: Most likely.

DenvToday: That would explain it.

rjjutah: Yes, the colors are set by theAOL software. And I guess we are all embarassed, since the default for your own color is red.

AGplusone: what does this show as?

KultsiKN: dark red

Paradis402: Brown.

DenvToday: Red to me

SAcademy: If you leave the chat., you can get a different color when you return.

AGplusone: back to black now?

Paradis402: Right. Ginny.

KultsiKN: yup

DenvToday: With my luck I’ll come back as pink.

rjjutah: It will show different to different people, depending upon the order with which you are added to your own software.

SAcademy: You’re lavendar on my screen.

Paradis402: Don’t tell me what color I am today. I might get depressed.

KultsiKN: you look it.

AGplusone: On Macs you can keep them all Blue. No options for names since the last upgrade.

SAcademy: How do you do that, David?

Paradis402: Thanks Kultsi!

AGplusone: General preferences.

Paradis402: David is showing off with his MAC.

DenvToday: If I have a preference, I’ll be an Admiral.

Paradis402: :-[

rjjutah: that’s very admiral of you …

DenvToday: arrrghhh rofl rj

DavidWrightSr: Their are some preferences for PCs that you can set. I’ll explore them and send out a note explaining what I find.

AGplusone: รฅ รฑ รฎ รฉ

jilyd: Ginny–I re-sent the note. Subject: JAWS software. It does not contain software, it is some info.

Paradis402: Go sientese in the corner, David.

DenvToday: My niece just told me a joke. Prepare to groan: What did the mommy Buffalo say to her boy Buffalo as he went off to school? “Bye son!”

rjjutah: Better than being General Protection Fault of the Microsoft zombie army ….

rjjutah:, creak, wheeze….

SAcademy: Thank you, Dee.

AGplusone: kin I look over my shoulder at the keyboard, D?

SAcademy: BRB

Paradis402: Maman! Sauve qui peut.

rjjutah: I don’t know, David, how flexible are you?

AGplusone: pretty good for an old man

rjjutah: Must be if you are typing behind your back!

AGplusone: I’m sitting in the corner already. ‘puter is in the corner of the room

Paradis402: Hah! ๐Ÿ™‚

jilyd: AG–if that was for me about the keyboard, you lost me.

SAcademy: Back

KultsiKN: AG, can you turn off the bold, pls

AGplusone: okay

AGplusone: no, I was talking to Denis

KultsiKN: Better, thx.

jilyd: Okay. With two Davids, a Dee, and a Denis, I wasn’t sure.

Paradis402: I think Dee meant your comment about reading her keyboard to Ginny. David.

AGplusone: Okay, isn’t it odd that mirrors are common to the two mysteries?

jilyd: Ginny, it’s great you’re encouraging Nuke, but do you have to keep him to busy to post? ๐Ÿ˜‰

AGplusone: Has he sent you anything to review …?

DavidWrightSr: Test

KultsiKN: Uhh..

AGplusone: you’re back to black Dave

Paradis402: Wow!

DenvToday: Very readable!

SAcademy: He just took off on his own, Dee. All I did was suggest.

jilyd: Well, you are getting lots of credit/blame. ๐Ÿ™‚

DavidWrightSr: Sorry, was just experimenting. I am going to work all of this out and send out an e-mail and maybe put it on my website

rjjutah: What is Jim working on?

SAcademy: A novel.

AGplusone: my next question

rjjutah: How novel of a novel is it?

AGplusone: tell you what it’s about?

KultsiKN: Good Grief!

SAcademy: I don’t have any answers. That’s all I know.

AGplusone: ‘kay


Paradise–yes that was the remark I meant. David, if you meant you would like the JAWS info, I can send you a copy of what I told Ginny.

AGplusone: Well, brandied coffee is all gone.

DenvToday: I’m reading my very first Ken Macleod novel. The Stone Canal. Interesting writer.

rjjutah: Good grief is the best kind, Kultsi. No one wants bad grief.

AGplusone: Paperback?

Paradis402: Thanks for the clarification Dee.

DenvToday: Yes.

AGplusone: I’ll have to look. just finished DeMille’s sequel to The General’s Daughter

DenvToday: I’d like to read it. DeMille is one of the most readable author’s out there. Excellent story teller.

jilyd: ‘Fraid I better go cook some supper. Glad to talk to you all. G’nite.

Paradis402: Bye Dee

KultsiKN: Nite, Dee!

DenvToday: Night Dee

AGplusone: And have Leonard’s newest on tap. Bye Dee

SAcademy: Thanks for coming, Dee. Nite.

jilyd has left the room.

AGplusone: Anyone hear from Sean?

rjjutah: I have to admit I am not much of a mystery reader, other than the Holmes stories, and the Black Widower and Wendell Urth stories of Asimov. In this regard, I am but an egg.

AGplusone: what is the Black Widower?

DenvToday: I admit to being a Rex Stout addict.

DenvToday: Mrs. Heinlein, was RAH acquainted with Rex Stout?

AGplusone: Glad you are. I went looking for a Stout, couldn’t find anything except that early one about the girl.

AGplusone: No Nero Wolfe at all.

SAcademy: Not really. Those were mine. He liked J. D. MacDonald.

rjjutah: They are a series of stories by Isaac Asimov about a group of individuals who meet regularly to discuss mysteries. The waiter is usually the one who solves the mystery. Really quite good.

KultsiKN: Just got my first Rex Stout in English.

DavidWrightSr: I’m a Dorothy Sayers fan. In fact, that and Asimov’s mysteries are about the only ones I read. Do watch Poirot on tv

SAcademy: Kultsi those are really old!

DenvToday: Kult, you’ll like them. Prepare to become hungry while reading them.

AGplusone: Pure mysteries are less popular than the hard-boiled detectives any more.

AGplusone: And they’ve really mixed genres a lot

SAcademy: Food and orchids, good combo.

AGplusone: action adventures, spy and police stories intersect ….

rjjutah: If I recall correctly, there were four collections of the stories: Tales of the Black Widowers, More Tales of the Black Widowers, Casebook of the Black Widowers and Banquets of the Black Widowers.

AGplusone: Does anyone know what the first book Rex Stout wrote was?

DenvToday: Speaking of MacDonald, the Travis Magee series is one of the best action/mystery series.

DenvToday: Fer de Lance

AGplusone: He was 17, and it’s classified as a sci-fi by Locus.

DenvToday: It was the first. 1934 I believe.

AGplusone: Nope. this was 1914 or 13

AGplusone: A lost race of Incas ….

DenvToday: Stout was in his late 40’s when he wrote his first Nero Wolfe novel.

AGplusone: Downloadable from gutenberg

AGplusone: The only one listed. It’s a giggle!

DenvToday: He wrote–very well–into his late 80’s.

AGplusone: Reads like a cross between Penrod and Sam and Rider Haggard

AGplusone: I was going to compare it with RAH’

AGplusone: s first effort to write a mystery but decided that was really unfair

DennEditor has entered the room.

DenvToday: Stout and RAH had this in common–much of their best work was in their later years.

DennEditor: sorry Im late

KultsiKN: Hi, Bill!

AGplusone: Chandler was in his mid-forties when he started

DenvToday: Hello!

DennEditor: Howdy folks

AGplusone: Ah, Mr.

Dennis! Hi!

DennEditor: What have I missed? Has Sue Grafton’s name come up yet?

rjjutah: Just did

SAcademy: I’ve been trying to remember the name of two college professors who wrote mysteries in the thirties.

DenvToday: “N” is for No

Paradis402: Who is Sue Grafton?

AGplusone: I’ve never read a Nero Wolfe-Archie Goodwin. Are they ‘cozy’ mysteries, requiring maps and stuff to solve?

DenvToday: Popular mystery writer

rjjutah: A is for Alphabetical oriented Author

DennEditor: Writer of “A is for Alabi,” ect.

DennEditor: The KInsey Milhone mysteries

Paradis402: Thanks.

DennEditor: Kinsey reminds me of a Heinlein heroine … very tough and sassy

KultsiKN: Bill, care to bold your font?

DenvToday: No David. No maps. They’re very accessible. Admittedly, their works of a gentler and more sophisticated era.

DenvToday: they’re works, that is

DennEditor: How is that?

KultsiKN: thx

AGplusone: very formal diction? Like the one he wrote I described as a Penrod and Sam?

DenvToday: Yes, Wolfe’s character is a lesson in the precise use of the English language.

DenvToday: Archie Goodwin, Wolfe’s “Watson” speaks a New York-ese everyman English.

SAcademy: Talking to me, David? Yes, vry formal stuff –things like Chiese porcelains etc.

AGplusone: that should be a relief

DennEditor: Virtually all of Heinlein’s characters seem to speak in Midwestern American English …

AGplusone: The one I downloaded and the one involving the lady detective he wrote before the Wolfe-Goodwins were unrelived high formal diction from all parties.

SAcademy: That’s no surprise–he was from there, after all.

rjjutah: Because that’s how God meant people to speak. He is an Author, you know.

DennEditor: actually, come to think of it, that may not be totally accurate …

DennEditor: Maybe Moses was the Author …

DenvToday: It’s a reflection of a time when the educated class actually spoke with formality and precision.

DavidWrightSr: Probably not, generalizations usually aren’t O:-)

DennEditor: and God owes his existence to Moses.

AGplusone: But it’s also the style approved by editors in the -20s and so

rjjutah: Not that I’m biased, or anything, since I was born in Missouri. But if you don’t agree, all you have to do is “show me”

AGplusone: What Twain did was really unique for his time

KultsiKN: And Moses has something like four editors.

rjjutah: He had a real gift for dialog.

DennEditor: Four? Than few?

DennEditor: that few

KultsiKN: Could be more

rjjutah: Yes, which explains all the confusion.

Paradis402: What Moses we talking about here?

DennEditor: … and a Hell of a lot of critics to be sent to the Lounge….

rjjutah: I think Twain was the first “authentic voice” of America.

DennEditor: Moses … author of the Books of Moses int he Bible …

DenvToday: Jewish fella, as I recall.

rjjutah: The red sea Moses, water superintendent supreme

Paradis402: Oh Him. OK.

DennEditor: Oh, I dunno. James Fenimore Cooper cant be discounted.

AGplusone has left the room.

DennEditor: also … Hawthorne, Washington Irving ….

DenvToday: I saw “Gettysburg” this past week on cable. What struck me was the magnificent use of English used by ordinary men.

KultsiKN: Twain in the original is fantastic read.

Paradis402: I agree with Kultsi about Twain.

DennEditor: I went to public school ,,, they wouldn’t let teachers assign Twain …

DenvToday: It’s lost, probably never to return. At least, not in the U.S.

AGplusone has entered the room.

DenvToday: wb David

rjjutah: I agree, to the extent that those authors were great at writing in the voice of their experience, in their times. Somehow, Twain managed to speak in many voices, all authentic.

AGplusone: I love that alert. Loud whistle. Hope you have all the log Dave. I lost the entire thing.

DavidWrightSr: I’ve got it all.

DennEditor: I was surprised that Twain could write Huck Finn and Conneticutt Yankee

rjjutah: I’ve been saving periodically, David, so I have a copy too.

AGplusone: Nice thing about OS X tho … don’t have to reboot

AGplusone: just restart AIM

DennEditor: eek

rjjutah: That’s what I mean,

Dennis. He could speak in many voices.

DennEditor: nice thing about WinXp too.

DenvToday: I use Win 98. You have to reboot for everything. lol

AGplusone: Well, working towards Linux slowly

DennEditor: One of the reasons I would like to see Heinlein appear as character in Riverworld series would be a meeting between RAH and Twain.

rjjutah: Don’t be computer parochial – have one of each!

DavidWrightSr: Right!

AGplusone: Dickens and Kipling also tried for the real voice

AGplusone: But it’s hard to write dialect

AGplusone: No agreement on what a scots voice or an irish voice for example says

KultsiKN: Especially the British ones

Paradis402: RAH did it very well. I think.

AGplusone: exactly

DavidWrightSr: Yeah. Someone, who shall remain nameless, criticised RAH for using natural language.

rjjutah: To write authentic dialect, I think you have to “live” it. Or at the very least, be deeply immersed in it.

rjjutah: At a minimum, have “an ear” for it.

SAcademy: Robert always said that writting dialog was simply a matter of the pacing.

AGplusone: I once sat down with all my Fraser novels and tried to make a dictionary of accents. Didn’t work.

AGplusone: All manner of inconsistencies

DennEditor: I try to use dialect when I quote people …. copy editors usually take it out.

AGplusone: I tried it with Twain too … also some inconsistencies

rjjutah: That’s because copy editors hate originality and authenticity. It’s genetic I think, like microcephaly.

DenvToday: I’ve always pictured Dr. Johnson as Mark Twain.

AGplusone: And Brian as Teddy Roosevelt …

DennEditor: exactly!

DenvToday: Yes, same here!

DennEditor: I didn’t like Brian very much

DavidWrightSr: Oh, Ira Johnson. You had me confused there for a minute

DenvToday: Yes, Woody’s grandfather. Not Samuel Johnson.

DennEditor: I don’t think Lazarus liked Brian very much eithers …

SAcademy: Does anyone remember that mystery story that was such a big hit some years back. Robert Travers wrote it. Can’t remember the title.

rjjutah: It’s a mystery to me.

DenvToday: Brian was a fine man–until late in life. Then he turned out to be less than loyal.

AGplusone: Travers … I remember something I enjoyed by him.

SAcademy: Anatomy of a Murder.

DennEditor: Teddy was a background character in Caleb Carr’s “The Alienist.”

AGplusone: The one about upper Michigan, yes.

DavidWrightSr: I got the impression that LL did like him. Even more when he got to know him better. Atleast during the period of TEFL.

AGplusone: Yes I remember it. Jimmie Stewart movie too

AGplusone: Good book.

DavidWrightSr: I liked him up until he dumped Maureen. That was a no-no

DennEditor: I lost respect for Brian fairly early on … by participating in “blockbusting.”

AGplusone: It’s just the mid-life crisis Brian had at age 100 or so.

AGplusone: Brian always had his eye on the main chance.

DennEditor: It was earlier than his 100s, i believe

rjjutah: That’s the problem with many of the long-lifers – no staying power.

DenvToday: Brian paid for it by not being a member of the Tertius family.

AGplusone: probably was … I was exaggerating a bit

DenvToday: He would have been rescued and brought to Tertius–had he proved loyal.

AGplusone: OTOH maybe he’s one of the scene changers.

AGplusone: or Black Hats

DennEditor: Notice that post TEFL, we alomost never hear of surviving Howards decended from Woody’s many siblings?

AGplusone: That’s because Laz is really Homo Novis ….

DennEditor: None of his sibs picked up the mutation?

AGplusone: very possibly not

rjjutah: Why would they? Mutations aren’t catching

DennEditor: Well, duh …

KultsiKN: The chances are against it

DennEditor: but they still should have had decendants …

DennEditor: decendents ….

DennEditor: >

DennEditor: ?

AGplusone: true, but just as the rest of the Howards they died out

AGplusone: too

DavidWrightSr: They were all long-lived themselves as shown at the wedding, IIRC

DennEditor: How many did he have through Maureen alone? 17 or so?

AGplusone: 2200 years is a lot longer than the 100 or so they got

AGplusone: That was Brian

DennEditor: I am not saying the sibs should have survived.

KultsiKN: LL was the Alpha Male of his group

DennEditor: But some of the Howards living during time of TEFL should be decendents of his sibs.

AGplusone: but in 100 + generations, he’s going to surpass them, cross breeding into their lines.

AGplusone: Probably are, but who are they going to remember, Pat, or Laz

DennEditor: true …

AGplusone: I’m descended from Pat, the one who died on Iwo Jima, or I’m descended from Laz

DenvToday: Or Laz’s son–Colin Campbell. But…did he survive?

DennEditor: If you are decended from George Washington AND his brother, who are you going to mention at family gatherings?

AGplusone: Yes. He’s in To Sail

DenvToday: Ah…but in which branch? lol

rjjutah: Lazarus was ahead of his time, with respect to the other long-lifers and had more time to make sure his genes were spread to the four winds. Very Darwinian.

DennEditor: We have some of G.W

DennEditor: G.W.

AGplusone: from his adopted sons or Custis’s sons?

DennEditor: G.W.’s decendents in Peoria … all claim to be decended through slave mistress…

AGplusone: Oh … okay

AGplusone: Didn’t know he had one, but why not.

AGplusone: Certainly not as well known as Henning

DennEditor: They are in same boat T. Jefferson’s black decendents were 20 years ago… losts of family oral history, but no proof.

DennEditor: lots of family oral history, I mean

AGplusone: yes, spelling godess help us!

DavidWrightSr: ZAP. call me ‘Goddess’

AGplusone: He had newphews, sons of Lawrence, etc.

AGplusone: ne[]phews

AGplusone: Or maybe not Lawrence … but one other.

DennEditor: “Spelling Goddess” ? Would that be Tori?

AGplusone: bleh …


AGplusone: did she have surgery. Looks prettier lately.

AGplusone: Not like Aaron as much any more

rjjutah: It’s amazing what more dollars than sense will do for a person.

DennEditor: I know! How about casting Tory Spelling as Star?


DennEditor: Luke Perry as Oscar Gordon!

DenvToday: Great. Then we can cast Woody Allen as Oscar.

AGplusone: Naw, Danny DeVito as Dak Broadbent!

DennEditor: Glory Road 90210

rjjutah: Now these, truly are mysterious choices….

AGplusone: make a true parody

DennEditor: errr… what was the topic again ?

DenvToday: Actually, Danny DeVito would be great as Rufo.

AGplusone: It’s a mystery to me.

SAcademy: nite all.

SAcademy has left the room.

AGplusone: G’nite ginny

DavidWrightSr: Topic. We don’t need no steenkin topic

DenvToday: Wooohoo!

DennEditor: I hope we didn’t drive you away with this foolishness ,,

rjjutah: Looks like dished out too much pun-ishment to Ginny

DennEditor: Nite

AGplusone: It’s 8 PM … time to go ….

DenvToday: Yep.

DennEditor: only 7 here …. but it is time to go

DenvToday: Good night to one and all. Terrific discussion, as always.

AGplusone: 5 here, but I keep ET

KultsiKN: still early — 3 am

AGplusone: Thank you all ….

DennEditor: I will have to read the REAL discussion once it is posted.

DenvToday: Take care everybody! See you next time ๐Ÿ™‚

AGplusone: Have a drink Kultsi and watch the sun rise!

DennEditor: bye

DenvToday: Bye!

DennEditor has left the room.

rjjutah: Have fun, all. Interesting discussion.

AGplusone: I think you’ll enjoy it Bill

DenvToday has left the room.

AGplusone: Okay … I’ll see you …. still have log Dave?

rjjutah: I’ll email him a copy, if he wants.

AGplusone: Randy’s still got the log, Dave

DavidWrightSr: I got it all except for the part where I got dropped.

KultsiKN: I just saved — I’ve got all exept the very beginning

rjjutah: DW, do you need me to email you my back up copy, or do you think you have everything?

DavidWrightSr: Log officially closed at 8:03 P.M. EST.

AGplusone: Okay ….

DavidWrightSr: Got it all and saved.

AGplusone: see you all, Denis, Kultsi, Dave and Randy

Paradis402: Nite all, you Heinlein champions.

Paradis402 has left the room.

AGplusone: LOL

KultsiKN: Nite!

rjjutah: One thing that I’ve noticed is that AIM automatically relogs one back in. If one is knocked off unaware, you can not notice that part of the conversation is missing.

DavidWrightSr: Nite Chet

AGplusone has left the room.

KultsiKN has left the room.

DavidWrightSr: Oh it’s missing, but you’re right. Except for the ‘You joined etc…’ you would’nt know that you had missed anything

rjjutah: Ok. Have a good evening.

DavidWrightSr: See ya later.
Final End Of Discussion Log

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