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Heinlein as Libertarian 
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Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:18 pm
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
PeterScott wrote:
I think it was the institutionalism more than the religion that Bill was talking about


Yeah, and so was Heinlein. :) The man recognized a kind soul when he saw it, and didn't really care about the label superficially attached to the lapel. . . in the context of recognizing the heart that beat beneath the lapel, anyway.

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Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:41 pm
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
georule wrote:
And even MORE props to Audrey for apparently having had enough influence on Jim to cause him to say something sorta-nice implied on the subject. Ahh, the love of a good woman! Been there, done that, have the T-shirt. (He's gonna ream me for that --I'm chuckling already).

No reaming. I don't think Audrey is either to credit or blame for the sentiment, either. I respect sincere spirituality (a touchstone for which is someone who follows their own tenets, both spoken and implied, even when it is counter to their own preferences, wishes and desires) even though I don't much touch the stuff myself.

My spirituality tends to be of the cynical side. I know the universe doesn't care, so all "spirit" is unique, individual and totally interior.

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In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:45 pm
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
Note to self: Telling someone how excellent their spouse is, turns out to be horrible failure as friendly trolling device. ;)

CNN asks to joing the "spirituality but not religious" discussion here: http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/personal ... tml?hpt=C1

My first reaction is to bitchslap the jesuit priest who can make such a statement with a straight face without demanding the Vatican sell its art collection and historical documents/artifacts collection (hey, take hi-res images first, by all means) on the open market at the same time.

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"Rub her feet." --Woodrow Wilson Smith

"Hey, if I'm going to pass on the timeless wisdom of the ages in a Sig, that pretty well qualifies, in my experience." --Geo Rule


Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:20 pm
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
georule wrote:
Note to self: Telling someone how excellent their spouse is, turns out to be horrible failure as friendly trolling device. ;)

She is excellent, no question, and I didn't mean anything one way or the other in my reply. But my notions about spirituality were formed long ago and they are merely (generally, apparently) compatible with Audrey's. It's one area where I don't think we've made any respective changes.

Quote:
My first reaction is to bitchslap the jesuit priest who can make such a statement with a straight face without demanding the Vatican sell its art collection and historical documents/artifacts collection (hey, take hi-res images first, by all means) on the open market at the same time.

My reaction to the Vatican collection is that they have SO much of it that it's like wandering the Smithsonian's basement. A jumble sale from the Quattrocento. Rooms of sculpture packed like that of Charles Foster Kane. Not displayed to any advantage or point beyond "look at our heaps of wealth" - pirate booty style.

ACC casually predicted many things. The burning of the Vatican in the early 21st is one I can see coming true.

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"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
so did heinlein suport this project www.new-utopia.com ?since the founder to the name laazarus loong and talk abut a libertain island
or is the wolhoe thing just sued for fraud ?by some investoer or charter citizens ?(could not find any infomation on the internet for class action but some infor from 2005 say sombody would eh take action...and now when usa goverment got all those bank acunntes lisit from foermer tax shleter empolyers in bermuda and antigua..

it did before not just based on the ideas to ayn rand objecvists but also karl popper pilospher any simmlaer ideas ?

sorry i am from north europe i am not so mcuh into libertansim or the way amricans think abut goverment and the difrences between let say ross pero and sarah palin...

sorry enghlis are not my first lanuges


Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:54 am
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
frank you're doing great ! welcome to the forum :)


Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:50 pm
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
To be absolutely clear about it, I think RAH considered libertarianism to be impossible when combined with a large, complex society and/or democracy. He liked to think about frontier societies, which ideally could be fairly libertarian. He liked to think about picking up and leaving once a society required ID cards. But he was quite capable of advocating policies that led to more liberty in a society that was not, at its base, libertarian.

The Loonies in MOON are an excellent example and I wish I hadn't posted my thinking about them in another thread. To be brief, when they had no choice, because a libertarian society was forced on them by authority (what an irony) They made a go of a very loose society, made it so attractive that many libertarians think of it as their ideal. When they had won their independence, they began a struggle to see whose vision of statism should prevail and left Hazel Stone complaining about their loss of liberty after they won their revolution.

Heinlein would have liked to be a libertarian. For practical reasons, he was simply another lover of liberty.


Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:34 pm
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
THANKS :) so he was some kind of survavlist ? what abut time enhug for love more metaphysic version of freedom then pracitcl ?
did try to read stranger in stranger land was a bit to long and a bit strange mix of magic realism and sf so did go back to johan morgan and paul machury :)


Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:11 am
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Heinlein Biographer

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
frankchamler wrote:
THANKS :) so he was some kind of survavlist ? what abut time enhug for love more metaphysic version of freedom then pracitcl ?
did try to read stranger in stranger land was a bit to long and a bit strange mix of magic realism and sf so did go back to johan morgan and paul machury :)

Not a survivalist -- he was simply the last great romancer of the American Frontier.


Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:27 am
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Post Re: Heinlein as Libertarian
frankchamler wrote:
THANKS :) so he was some kind of survavlist ?


Certainly not in his declining years -- he was too dependent on medical technology.

But some of Farnham's Freehold is held in high regard by survivalists, because of the discussion of setting up the necessaries for after society fails.


Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:25 am
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