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How Heinlein Helped Make a "Traditionalist" 
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Post How Heinlein Helped Make a "Traditionalist"
Interesting:

Orthospherian Conversions
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I was raised a Marxist. My family was focused on the Social Gospel, and – when the chances of implementing a socialist utopia through the church faded – to radical progressive politics and the human potential movement. We also however loved the Narnia books from an early age, and some of the things I read in those books puzzled me. I dismissed them. But they were planted deep in the soil of my mind.

Eventually, however, a series of events turned me into a traditionalist over the course of only a few years.

First, I read Robert Heinlein as a boy, and while I found his politics appalling, nevertheless the arguments he marshalled were new to me, and I could not gainsay them. They didn’t convince me, but because I respected Heinlein as a spinner of coherent tales and a competent writer, I found I could not altogether discount them as ravings of a mad or evil or stupid man. On the contrary, Heinlein was obviously brilliant, highly educated, and insightful. So I filed his arguments away for later, reserving final judgement.
(...)
Fourth, I learned about economics and biology, cybernetics and cognitive science. That sealed the deal. Here was a systematic way of thinking about living things in terms of information that supported distributed computational systems, and suggested that centralized command and control were terrifically unstable and vulnerable.

Lewis and Heinlein were the seeds; learning on the road from the salt of the earth fertilized the soil; the divorce harrowed the weeds; systems theory was the sunlight. At 17 I was a Marxist. At 20 I was convinced that if people were only left to their own devices a humane traditional society, as being best fitted to the nature of man, would soon cook up naturally and organically from their free interactions.


Here's another piece from the same author, much of which I find very Heinleinian: The Duty of the Adult to the Child

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Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:13 am
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Post Re: How Heinlein Helped Make a "Traditionalist"
RobertPearson wrote:
Interesting:

Here's another piece from the same author, much of which I find very Heinleinian: The Duty of the Adult to the Child


I'm not sure I see the connection to Heinlein. While Heinlein in 1963 might have called homosexuality a perversion, I don't think he would have after 1973. And in neither year would he have thought that the framework for raising children would be so exclusively Christian.

I guess you see that Kristor encourages adults to protect their children from horrors; so do almost all adults. I'm not sure Heinlein would have agreed on the definition of the horrors or the nature of the protection.

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Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:47 pm
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Post Re: How Heinlein Helped Make a "Traditionalist"
LilLeaguer wrote:
RobertPearson wrote:
Interesting:

Here's another piece from the same author, much of which I find very Heinleinian: The Duty of the Adult to the Child


I'm not sure I see the connection to Heinlein. While Heinlein in 1963 might have called homosexuality a perversion, I don't think he would have after 1973. And in neither year would he have thought that the framework for raising children would be so exclusively Christian.

I guess you see that Kristor encourages adults to protect their children from horrors; so do almost all adults. I'm not sure Heinlein would have agreed on the definition of the horrors or the nature of the protection.


I'm not interested in the homosexuality per se, but this part:

Quote:
It doesn’t work this way only with homosexuality, of course. Spousal abuse, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse, gambling – all the vices are easier to take on board if you saw your parents or relatives doing them, or members of the parish, or teachers, or priests, et al. And the same thing goes for the virtues. Children watch adults and learn from them how adults normally behave – how it would be normal for them to behave when they grow up.

From how adults treat them, children especially learn how it is normal for adults to treat children.

The bounden duty then of any adult who might regularly be observed by young children – which is to say, any adult at all, except hermits and cloistered religious – is so to live as to demonstrate to the young in his ambit how adults ought properly to live. We ought to live properly – we ought, at a minimum, to try our best to look as though we do, anyway – because youngsters are looking at us as models for themselves. How much heavier, then, is this duty laid upon famous, celebrated or prominent adults, who may be seen and imitated by thousands or even millions of youngsters? The public vice of a single movie star or athlete could ruin thousands of young lives (I do not of course deny that the moral and vital collapse of an authoritative adult under the weight of vice can serve as an object lesson to the young – but such collapses are usually hushed up, to keep the money flowing).

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"There comes a time in the life of every human when he or she must decide to risk 'his life, his fortune, and his sacred honor' on an outcome dubious. Those who fail the challenge are merely overgrown children, can never be anything else."


Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:23 pm
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Post Re: How Heinlein Helped Make a "Traditionalist"
That, certainly, is a Heinleinian tenet. As we have seen over and over, though, those can coexist in the same person with beliefs that directly contradict Heinlein.


Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:19 pm
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Post Re: How Heinlein Helped Make a "Traditionalist"
Thanks for the clarification.

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Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:56 pm
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