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JFK: Killed by the Japanese 
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Heinlein Nexus
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
I'm afraid Jim is right. See Gerald Posner's book "Case Closed."

I want as much as anyone for JFK to have been done in by the CIA, Mafia, or Castro. We demand of our great men and women that they meet great ends, that they be defeated by a worthy foe, or at least a powerful one. To fall afoul of a piker, or worse, happenstance, just does not jibe with our sense of fairness. Life should follow the same rules as good stories, and in any epic, the hero does not get done in by slipping on a banana skin.

Reality, unfortunately, often disagrees. Isadora Duncan met her end when her scarf got wrapped around the car's wheel. Houdini died from a ruptured appendix due to a punch from a fan. (I love the movie, but they just couldn't face the truth.) Princess Diana died in a car crash from an inebriated chauffeur trying to outrun the paparazzi.

At least one acid test of conspiracy BS is when there are multiple competing theories that can't be reduced. If any of them were feasible it would be the only one under discussion. Yet in an Olympian feat of cognitive dissonance, JFK conspiracists manage to believe simultaneously that he was assassinated by the CIA, the mob, and the Russians. There couldn't have been any innocent witnesses to the shooting because there wouldn't have been room in Dealey Plaza for anyone not toting some firearm used in the attack.

I prefer to honor JFK's memory by hewing to what I know to be true rather than what I want to be true. He deserves nothing less.


Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:34 pm
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
I'm with Jim and Peter on this, especially Peter. The buzz of multiple contradictory competing conspiracy theories none of which is provable or even particularly plausible is the key here. We don't like to accept that small people can do great harm, so when one does, we go looking for a villain as big as the crime. :/

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Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:26 pm
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PITA Bred
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
PeterScott wrote:
I'm afraid Jim is right. See Gerald Posner's book "Case Closed."

Actually, see Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History" or the subset volume that was later published. The casual reader can stop (or try to) with the 44-page introduction, which neatly summarizes the book's invincible - to me - case.

Bugliosi doesn't have much kind to say about Posner even though they don't fundamentally disagree - Posner is very sloppy in spots which permits the dedicated conspirista to slip in "Yes, buts" all over the place.

Anyone who wants to persist in JFK conspiracy theorizing is going to have to through Bugliosi's almost absurdly detailed mythbuster. There are many places where he goes over the same 15 minutes in three, five, ten different passes to make sure he has every known fact laid out.

But like the master prosecuting attorney he is, his 44-page 'opening argument' says everything that really needs saying, including a completely devastating set of questions he asked a convocation of his peers.

Quote:
I prefer to honor JFK's memory by hewing to what I know to be true rather than what I want to be true. He deserves nothing less.


This is, by the way, Bugliosi's entire thesis: that the nation and the world deserve to see this pivotal event in its clearest light instead of being perpetually fogbound in nonsense that clouds perception of other events.


Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:19 am
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
Coincidentally, I just finished Reclaiming History last week. I read Case Closed some years ago, but Reclaiming History is where to go if you want to finish the question once and for all. Just a tremendous read. For an express verision, just go through the first two main sections, "Four Days in Dallas" and the Oswald biography. The sections making fun of all of the various conspiracies are not quite as vital, nor as tight.

Happy reading! It took me almost a month of every moment I could carve out to finish it.

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Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:30 am
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PITA Bred
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
Actually, I think there's an entire 'second edition' that omits the conspiracy debunking half. At least, it seems to be the same book but half the size...

He may have gotten details wrong and new data can always come to light, but as I said... anyone who wants to challenge the matter has to go THROUGH Bugliosi. There's no getting around it.


Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:46 am
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
holmesiv wrote:
TexasScot1952 wrote:
And I drove past the cemetery Oswald was buried in for years without ever realizing his remains were there. Didn't ever bother looking for his grave after I learned that fact, as it's supposed to be unmarked.


Actually the grave is marked, but his mother, who is buried beside him is unmarked.

My parents lived near Mrs Oswald and a teenaged Lee during the late 40s,
and I probably met Mrs Oswald when she worked at the candy counter at a
department store in west Ft Worth in the 50s.


Yoiks! Which department store? South and later west FW is where I came up![/quote]
According to the Bugliosi book, ie more than you want to know, Mrs Oswald worked at The Fair department store on Camp Bowie,


Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:27 am
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PITA Bred
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
TexasScot1952 wrote:
According to the Bugliosi book, ie more than you want to know...

Ain't no setch animal, especially for a topic where the Knoll Knuts can spin any faint omission, misunderstanding or misrepresentation into proof of a global conspiracy.


Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:09 am
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
TexasScot1952 wrote:
holmesiv wrote:
TexasScot1952 wrote:
And I drove past the cemetery Oswald was buried in for years without ever realizing his remains were there. Didn't ever bother looking for his grave after I learned that fact, as it's supposed to be unmarked.


Actually the grave is marked, but his mother, who is buried beside him is unmarked.

My parents lived near Mrs Oswald and a teenaged Lee during the late 40s,
and I probably met Mrs Oswald when she worked at the candy counter at a
department store in west Ft Worth in the 50s.


Yoiks! Which department store? South and later west FW is where I came up!

According to the Bugliosi book, ie more than you want to know, Mrs Oswald worked at The Fair department store on Camp Bowie,[/quote]

I said "West," but my brain must have been bubble gum that day. I came up on the South and East sides.
However, The Fair sounds like it could have been a store on Camp Bowie in the 60s, then, as now, kinda upper middle class.


Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:29 pm
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PITA Bred
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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
As far as LHO's grave markers go...

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... r&GRid=781


Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:10 pm
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NitroForum Oldster

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Post Re: JFK: Killed by the Japanese
JamesGifford wrote:
TexasScot1952 wrote:
According to the Bugliosi book, ie more than you want to know...

Ain't no setch animal, especially for a topic where the Knoll Knuts can spin any faint omission, misunderstanding or misrepresentation into proof of a global conspiracy.


Actually, Jim I agree with you. I was being flip about the length of the book.
I actually own a copy and have used it in discussions with "Knoll Knuts."
Great trerm I'm going to steal it. ;)

Aside to holmesiv, The Fair was definently middle class and had several stores
in various parts of town. It went out of business around 69 or 70. :cry:


Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:44 am
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