View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:25 pm



Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Yet another Speedtalk attempt 
Author Message

Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:00 am
Posts: 6
Post Yet another Speedtalk attempt
Gidzic is another Heinlein inspired conlang that resulted from reading 'Gulf'

www.speedlanguage.weebly.com


Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:22 am
Profile WWW
Heinlein Nexus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:10 am
Posts: 2228
Location: Pacific NorthWest
Post Re: Yet another Speedtalk attempt
Wow. Ten out of ten for effort. What evidence is there of this being used by more than approximately one person?

It is appealing... but I'm not going to invest any effort in it if it's just a guy in his bedroom.


Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:24 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:00 am
Posts: 6
Post Re: Yet another Speedtalk attempt
:D Yes. any speaking community, if there is going to be one, is in its embryonic stage. I am able to tell if people look at the website, and there have been viewers. I'm in the publicizing phase right now. :)


Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:37 pm
Profile WWW
Heinlein Nexus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:10 am
Posts: 2228
Location: Pacific NorthWest
Post Re: Yet another Speedtalk attempt
Ah... my apologies for speaking intemperately. I did not realized that it was your own effort; I thought you were reporting on something you found. As I said, ten out of ten for effort. Did you develop it all yourself? How did you come up with the syntax? Who else is in on the game?


Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:33 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:00 am
Posts: 6
Post Re: Yet another Speedtalk attempt
No slight taken. I forget how old I was when I read the short story where Speedtalk appears. I believe I was 16. (I am now 56.) The idea floored me. Of course many of Heinlein's ideas do. ;) I began work immediately and ran into trouble right away. I just kept plugging away and, eventually found out that what I was doing had a name and is considered a hobby. Its called Conlanging and, I discovered a group on the internet. Things got much easier, as these people are often very well versed in linguistics. I learned and, when I encountered anything that would bring me closer to my goal, I added it to the language. I have just, two months ago, reached a point where often, a word can be represented by a single phoneme (sound)

I've learned that If a speaking community ever develops for my language, the speakers, will not come from among the conlangers. They're all too interested in their own languages. I've been working on the thing for so long it would be nice if someone would show their appreciation by speaking it. That's what a language is for after all. But wow that's a BIG hope and I realize somewhat unrealistic. It does happen though. And so there the thing is if someone wants it. I do have enough satisfaction in achieving something that most people said couldn't be done and that's nice. :D


Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:30 pm
Profile WWW
Heinlein Nexus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:10 am
Posts: 2228
Location: Pacific NorthWest
Post Re: Yet another Speedtalk attempt
I take my hat off to you. I read the same story at about the same age and had the same thought. I even wrote down the same goal: develop my own version of Speedtalk. But where I achieved nothing beyond once talking to a linguist friend to understand phonemes better, you have actually done it. That's a superlative achievement, one to be proud of. If the Centennial had not yet take place I would be inviting you to deliver a session. I do hope that some more people take it up. How's your pronunciation?


Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:17 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:24 am
Posts: 265
Location: Northwest Georgia
Post Re: Yet another Speedtalk attempt
dukekeenan wrote:
No slight taken. I forget how old I was when I read the short story where Speedtalk appears. I believe I was 16. (I am now 56.) The idea floored me. Of course many of Heinlein's ideas do. ;) I began work immediately and ran into trouble right away. I just kept plugging away and, eventually found out that what I was doing had a name and is considered a hobby. Its called Conlanging and, I discovered a group on the internet. Things got much easier, as these people are often very well versed in linguistics. I learned and, when I encountered anything that would bring me closer to my goal, I added it to the language. I have just, two months ago, reached a point where often, a word can be represented by a single phoneme (sound)
:D

Most languages have only 20-30 or so 'phonemes'. That would limit your language to the same number of words.

What Heinlein envisaged with speedtalkwas a language using the much higher number of what are normally considered allophonic variations of the various phonemes*, using variations in duration, pitch etc., which I consider to be a highly improbable system for reasons I have explained elsewhere.

* The distinction being that a 'phoneme' is the smallest unit which can distinguish between meanings whereas 'allophonic variations' can not signify a change in meaning, but only a variation is the perceived dialectical variation between users who use or do not use a particular variation. A well known example being the difference between how Albert Doolittle pronounced 'bottle' versus standard English.


Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:06 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 537
Post Re: Yet another Speedtalk attempt
Why no long I sound (mighty)?

Why no voiced th (they)?

Why no short I (pin)?

Why no sh (short)?

I pronounce the a in "apple" differently from the a in "father". Do you distinguish them?

Those are just phonemes from standard English that I see missing. Never mind phonemes from other languages that English lacks (umlaut o and ch from German, for example).

Seems like you are limiting yourself, somewhat.


Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:53 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:00 am
Posts: 6
Post Re: Yet another Speedtalk attempt
Jeez! I wrote a long reply yesterday and then it disappeared into the void. I hate when that happens.

This reply is aimed at all three of you. :)

The Language has 33 phonemes. It includes voiced th which I show as 'dh' and it has the
'sh' sound. It doesn't have the short 'i' sound of pin nor the sound found in 'apple'. I did deliberately limit the sounds that could go into the language. I wanted to use only the letters that are found on the standard keyboard. I thought that would make it easier for anybody who takes up the language and, would make the language have a more realistic appearance.

There are more than 33 root words in the language at this point. Gidzic has a base language where the Speed Language words come from. This base language is composed of root words. Each root word is composed of a consonant and a vowel or, consonants and vowels. Like any language this base language has nouns, verbs, adjectives and pronouns etc etc etc.

Sentences are formed using the base language. Then either the vowel(s) or consonant(s) is/are dropped out of each root word. Basically vowels cannot appear next to vowels and, consonants cannot appear next to consonants in the base sentence.

The word order of Gidzic and the structure of the various parts of speech, make it inevitable that vowels will appear next to vowels and consonants will appear next to other consonants. I planned it that way on purpose.

After you have removed these letters from your sentence, you have your Speed language word.

I was at one time using the entire International Phonetic Alphabet in an effort to get the number of phonemes I thought I needed. Pretty much every sound that occurs in any language on Earth is in the I.P.A. Some if not many of these sounds are quite strange. The I.P.A. cannot be written with the standard American keyboard. I did not like the direction this was taking my language. I wanted something that looked realistic and would be easy to type and pronounce.

I thought that each sentence would produce a unique word. Words would not reoccur because you would be expressing different ideas and, Therefore the words would needs be have a different appearance. Why then worry about how many phonemes you have? That was when I decided to limit my phonemic inventory to the 33 I now have.

I tested my theory and, found out I was wrong. Here's an example right out of Gidzic: The word 'Juesti' means 'I have to get gas.' However this exact same word could also mean I have to get underwear, corn, an idea, a roof, a window a key or an Island.

And so there has to be a standard meaning for a Speed Language word. Duh! 'Juesti means 'I have to get gas' and that's all it means. Now how to express all those other things it could have meant?

I came up with several different methods for devising the final Gidzic word. Each method, while using the same phonemes, produces words that look different.

And so there it is. i hope this answered some questions. Thanks for the interest!!


Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:12 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 9 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF