View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:40 am



Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years 
Author Message
Centennial Organizer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:34 pm
Posts: 200
Post From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
I was amused the other evening to find this article listed on msnbc news:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/209164

Yes, polyamory has moved from something that SF weirdos dabbled in to a cultural phenomenon so large that it is being written about in news magazines with no condemnation, disbelief or catcalls except for that very last one. Makes me laugh.

I am quite aware that lifestyle discussions are the bane of academic Heinlein devotees. I am also quite aware that living a "Heinlein life" is pretty widespread, whether or not he's credited with massively spreading the idea.

In coming times, pooling resources might become a survival strategy, much as it is in Moon is a Harsh Mistress. It's probably good that the topic is going mainstream, all things considered.

Tried to post this in the Ongoing Centennial area, only to find it's locked.


Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:02 pm
Profile
PITA Bred
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 2401
Location: The Quiet Earth
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
TinaBlack wrote:
Yes, polyamory has moved from something that SF weirdos dabbled in to a cultural phenomenon so large that it is being written about in news magazines with no condemnation, disbelief or catcalls except for that very last one. Makes me laugh.

I seem to have seen the periodic article on the subject in mainstream press. Don't recall one ever being derisive. This article seems no more prominent than most I recall. I'd say it's just poly's turn in the barrel this week.

Quote:
I am quite aware that lifestyle discussions are the bane of academic Heinlein devotees.

Really? Huh. Who cares? If they're not grown up enough to participate politely or stay out, then it's a non-problem.

Quote:
Tried to post this in the Ongoing Centennial area, only to find it's locked.

Nothing should be locked except the few admin forums. I'll check.

_________________
"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:50 pm
Profile
Centennial Organizer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:34 pm
Posts: 200
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
Board index » The Worlds of Robert A. Heinlein » The Moveable Feast: Centennial Panels

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TinaBlack and 0 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:

Jump to:

When I went to one of these at the Centennial, the "moderator" annoyed me greatly by summarizing Heinlein's use of alternative marriages, and then asked each person what alternative they'd lived. I was not terribly happy to talk about that inasmuch as Pati had died the day before. She would have had a more entertaining time than me being personal -- I was a LOT more interested in Heinlein than in me!


Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:25 pm
Profile
PITA Bred
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 2401
Location: The Quiet Earth
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
TinaBlack wrote:
Board index » The Worlds of Robert A. Heinlein » The Moveable Feast: Centennial Panels

That forum is special purpose - you have to basically sign up as a moderator, with your panelist list, and only they are given posting permission until the panel is opened to Q&A.

_________________
"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:35 pm
Profile
Heinlein Nexus

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:05 am
Posts: 375
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
First Worldcon I ever went to, as a visiting panelist, I manned the HS table with Bill for a few hours, and ended up chatting with a young woman who began to explain about her polyamorous lifestyle. She recommended I read "The Ethical Slut" -- very strange book, which said, more or less, that that lifestyle takes a lot of effort and trust. My response was that my own monogamous life took so much effort and trust I didn't know how anybody could handle more than one.

Speaking as an academic, I have no trouble discussing the interactions between fiction and reality, and influence is a fascinating topic.

Robert


Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:36 am
Profile
PITA Bred
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 2401
Location: The Quiet Earth
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
RobertJames wrote:
...which said, more or less, that that lifestyle takes a lot of effort and trust. My response was that my own monogamous life took so much effort and trust I didn't know how anybody could handle more than one.

Yeah, well, those of us with more scars than Travis McGee tend to look askance at all relationships, demanding exceptional proofs before we lower our guard. :?

I admit having been attracted to poly more than once, at least once reading all of the available literature and spending a lot of time thinking it through.* (This was in a lightly-scarred era.) I came to a number of conclusions about it, many of which are not particularly flattering to polies, but my chief conclusion was that it's like any other chosen lifestyle: if you can make it work, and if it pleases you, you have my respect but not necessarily my admiration. Going against the grain is respectable, in the willingness to make a difficult effort for an elusive reward.

I think that a successful poly relationship is akin to deep religious belief - the level of trust and acceptance that must be held in faith is beyond anyone but those capable of that level of faith - the burn-at-the-stake level. Monogamous relationships are easier because every facet of society and government supports them; poly relationships must balance like a troupe of acrobats, on their own. Were law and custom to change so that multiple marriage was more inherently supported, there would be more poly marriages - but I suspect that few of them would survive any longer than equivalent mono marriages. Probably less, given the exponential increase in frictions and misunderstandings.


* It may be genetic. Two strands of my ancestry pass through the Oneida Colony.

_________________
"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:05 am
Profile
Centennial Organizer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:34 pm
Posts: 200
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
I tried reading The Ethical Slut once. Sorry as I am to admit it, it was a slow slog and I never finished it -- too much stuff I already knew.

I lived a poly life for almost 8 years, and it was easier than reading that book. One of my spouses referred to it as leading "a Heinlein life". It was surprisingly easy to do -- talk about your blueprints, Heinlein really provides one. MIAHM has some pretty good guidelines in it. Others in this area thought that the way we did things provided a blueprint. There are at least four thriving polys still in KaCSFFS.

All you have to do is walk around acting as if what you are doing is totally normal.


Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:10 am
Profile
PITA Bred
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 2401
Location: The Quiet Earth
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
TinaBlack wrote:
There are at least four thriving polys still in KaCSFFS.

"...I think we're ALL bozos on this bus!" :D

Sorry, no insult intended - merely pointing out that you are within, and sometimes seemingly unaware that you are within, a self-selecting group with mindsets and ideas that diverge greatly from mainstream thought. Knowing about your situation, I would be deeply surprised if there were no other poly groups within the KaCSFFS realm. But I think you presume too much about that concept being as readily grasped by the uninitiated.

As for MIAHM being a blueprint, I'd disagree. Anyone competent can take a blueprint and build the thing, which is clearly not true of the family descriptions in that novel. At best, it's a sketch, and no matter how accurate a sketch, it's not a complete plan or instruction book or social document. Now, I can take a sketch of many things and turn out a finished product - perhaps in more areas than most - but that's because I have some personal reservoir of knowledge, experience and ability that fills in the sketch. But I can easily sketch something that would utterly befuddle someone who didn't have the background knowledge to follow it.

I would fear greatly for anyone who took MIAHM as a blueprint, with no greater knowledge - preferably experience - of marriage issues and dynamics from other sources. There is a vast gulf between playing house with several partners (and excellent birth control) and truly committing one's health, wealth, well-being, future and progeny to such a situation.

One point being that nearly all the poly relationships I know of are childless. Until there are shared children in the mix, it's playing house. IMVVHO.


Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:48 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:22 am
Posts: 603
Location: Reno, NV
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
Any opinions I have about polyamory are from the POV of a complete outsider: I've not just never been in a poly relationship, but wouldn't be for religious reasons. However, I've had some friends who have been, both in SF fandom and simply by living in the San Francisco Bay area for years and not cloistering myself. My main impression has been that these relationships seem more temporary than long-term partnerships (marriage or similar) involving just two people. I don't personally know anybody who has been in one for more than a decade and still is, while I know a bunch of married people who are hitting the half century mark. I also don't personally know anybody who has raised a child in a poly home for more than a year or two.

I think the lack of social backing and long precedent for polyamorous relationships probably has a great deal to do with this. I'm not convinced that this is the only reasons that the poly relationships I've seen have been less permanent than the monogamous partnerships I've seen.

Quote:
One point being that nearly all the poly relationships I know of are childless. Until there are shared children in the mix, it's playing house. IMVVHO.


*Very* Heinleinian view. ;-) I don't entirely agree about "playing house", but having children does change marriage in fundamental ways. The only thing I've seen that similiarly opens up a marriage is having an elderly, badly incapacitated parent who lives with you and whom you are taking care of as you might a child. That's different from children, but the changes it makes are just as great, I think.

_________________
Catherine Jefferson <ctiydspmrz@ergosphere.net>
Home Page: http://www.ergosphere.net


Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:26 pm
Profile WWW
Centennial Organizer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:34 pm
Posts: 200
Post Re: From Weirdo to Leading Edge in Just 28 Years
Oh I am *well* aware of how lucky we were -- and how unusual.

Only one of these has been childless. Surprise. But then, the methods used here are pretty workable, and the kids are no different from those of historical extended families where aunts, uncles and grandparents lived in a residence with children and siblings, and families were anything but "nuclear". That particular pattern came out of the 1950's USA where men were being moved around the country to train for executive jobs, or to climb the corporate ladder.

The kids seem to thrive in these odd households because they get a lot more adult attention. Someday off the board I'll tell you about our particular offspring.


Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:19 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 56 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF