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Heinlein Reinvented
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/thsnexus/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=251
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Author:  RobertWFranson [ Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

Peter Scott wrote:
... just where in Heinlein's output he transcended himself, i.e., extended his repertoire in some new direction, and how. This is really addressing where Heinlein went off in a new direction, something that wasn't predictable or an extrapolation of what had come before.
I suspect that Heinlein always was a bigger writer than his accessible market, or what he perceived as his current market. In other words, part of what we see as Heinlein's creative growth or extension could be Heinlein's refocusing toward a wider market, or a new one. Thus artistic and career breakthroughs, although not welded together, have a practical, managerial correlation.

Yet editors and publishers -- after Campbell for Astounding -- often seemed to prefer the Heinlein byline to the Heinlein content. I try to sketch this in "Heinlein's Missed Bestsellers".

Author:  BillMullins [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

BillPatterson wrote:
Also, somebody needs to look at William Gresham's Nightmare Alley, because I think that's where 100% of the carny stuff comes from.


I've never read Nightmare Alley (would like to, though, and see the movie as well). But I'd also propose Frederic Brown's work as a source. His novel Madball is set in a carnival, and filled with carney atmosphere and slang, and (from wikiepedia) "Brown's first mystery novel, The Fabulous Clipjoint, won the Edgar Award for outstanding first mystery novel . . . and is a depiction of how a young man gradually ripens into a detective under the tutelage of his uncle, an ex–private eye now working as a carnival barker." Given that Brown is a dedicatee of SIASL, it's probably worth reviewing these books as well as Nightmare Alley (and possibly the non-fiction writings of David Maurer) as possible source material.

Author:  BillPatterson [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

BillMullins wrote:
BillPatterson wrote:
Also, somebody needs to look at William Gresham's Nightmare Alley, because I think that's where 100% of the carny stuff comes from.


I've never read Nightmare Alley (would like to, though, and see the movie as well). But I'd also propose Frederic Brown's work as a source. His novel Madball is set in a carnival, and filled with carney atmosphere and slang, and (from wikiepedia) "Brown's first mystery novel, The Fabulous Clipjoint, won the Edgar Award for outstanding first mystery novel . . . and is a depiction of how a young man gradually ripens into a detective under the tutelage of his uncle, an ex–private eye now working as a carnival barker." Given that Brown is a dedicatee of SIASL, it's probably worth reviewing these books as well as Nightmare Alley (and possibly the non-fiction writings of David Maurer) as possible source material.

You're right, and I had forgotten about the carny background in Madball. I wonder what can be pegged to Brown and what to Gresham

Author:  beamjockey [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

BillPatterson wrote:
You're right, and I had forgotten about the carny background in Madball. I wonder what can be pegged to Brown and what to Gresham
Frederic Brown is one of the people to whom Stranger is dedicated, a hint that Bill M. may be on to something...

Author:  jeepojiii [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

Mumbles to self: Three in a row? Entirely too many Bills here.

Author:  sakeneko [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

Or, given the quality of the Bills on this forum, maybe not enough of them. ;)

Author:  FredReynolds [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

BillPatterson wrote:
You're right, and I had forgotten about the carny background in Madball. I wonder what can be pegged to Brown and what to Gresham

Sturgeon? The Dreaming Jewels?

Author:  jeepojiii [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

sakeneko wrote:
Or, given the quality of the Bills on this forum, maybe not enough of them. ;)


Actually, I agree, Catherine. My inner old codger broke for freedom, and that got out before I stuffed him back inside. :o

Author:  beamjockey [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

sakeneko wrote:
Or, given the quality of the Bills on this forum, maybe not enough of them. ;)
How very sweet of you to say.

Author:  BillMullins [ Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heinlein Reinvented

Just doing my part to regress "Bills" to the mean . . . ..

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