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SPLIT THREAD: Political Parties 
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm
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Post SPLIT THREAD: Political Parties
Do people change parties because their new party got better, and more appealing? Or because their old party got worse, and less appealing?

If you think that there's no change that the Republican Party could make to itself that would make you want to join it, you may be assuming change in the wrong party. Could the Dems get so bad that you'd want to leave them, and land into the GOP by default?


Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:48 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
If you look at the history of political parties, you'll see that new parties arose when the predominant party of the era grew moribund and went off track with respect to what the majority of people wanted.

I think the Republicans have gone so far off the rails that we'll see the end of the party within a decade. Without getting into ideological battles, they discovered that the trick in riding the tiger is learning to dismount...

I would bet on a new party forming somewhere in the center-right spectrum, absorbing most of the recent traditions of the GOP but dissociated from the religious right and screeching harping on "family values."

I am fairly dismayed at the Dems but I don't think they've blown their political base and capital as badly as the Reppies. It all matters little as I'm a lifelong Nonpartisan voter. :)

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Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:33 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
James Gifford wrote:
If you look at the history of political parties, you'll see that new parties arose when the predominant party of the era grew moribund and went off track with respect to what the majority of people wanted.

I think the Republicans have gone so far off the rails that we'll see the end of the party within a decade. Without getting into ideological battles, they discovered that the trick in riding the tiger is learning to dismount...

I would bet on a new party forming somewhere in the center-right spectrum, absorbing most of the recent traditions of the GOP but dissociated from the religious right and screeching harping on "family values."

I am fairly dismayed at the Dems but I don't think they've blown their political base and capital as badly as the Reppies. It all matters little as I'm a lifelong Nonpartisan voter. :)


I think there'll still be a party named "Republican" for a long time. The two-party system as we have it is too entrenched for a third party to arise.

The group that is called "Republican" twenty years from now, will most likely have some ideological differences from the one that exists today, though.

And this is important even to those of us who are unaffiliated (like Jim and I) because even if we aren't members of a party, the candidates always are. And the parties aren't about to let that change.


Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:10 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Bill Mullins wrote:
I think there'll still be a party named "Republican" for a long time. The two-party system as we have it is too entrenched for a third party to arise.

Not necessarily a sequitur there. The US has nearly always been a two-party political nation (brief anomalies like the Bull Moose Party notwithstanding) and I don't see that changing, except possibly in extreme fracturing into nondominant splinter parties.

I'm also being bold in saying that while the (republican party) might continue, it will be under a different name and banner rather than as another, all new and completely different, iteration of the GOP as we know it. The very name has been polluted by the last twenty years and may need to be abandoned to acquire the voter base they desire. It would not be a third party, except that some small shell of the current GOP might survive for a time as a splinter group.


Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:34 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
James Gifford wrote:
Bill Mullins wrote:
I think there'll still be a party named "Republican" for a long time. The two-party system as we have it is too entrenched for a third party to arise.

Not necessarily a sequitur there. The US has nearly always been a two-party political nation (brief anomalies like the Bull Moose Party notwithstanding) and I don't see that changing, except possibly in extreme fracturing into nondominant splinter parties.

I'm also being bold in saying that while the (republican party) might continue, it will be under a different name and banner rather than as another, all new and completely different, iteration of the GOP as we know it. The very name has been polluted by the last twenty years and may need to be abandoned to acquire the voter base they desire. It would not be a third party, except that some small shell of the current GOP might survive for a time as a splinter group.


Since it has been about 160 years since a major American political party just up and disappeared - to be replaced by the GOP - the chance of a reoccurrence would seem to be unlikely. Nevertheless, if the Republicans don't get their act together it is possible. Of course, we all thought the same thing after Watergate, and the party was essentially "saved" by it's right wing. I'm not sure who would save it this time, since the right wing has driven everyone else out or underground. I give them a 99% chance of survival and ultimate resurgence, because of inertia more than any other reason. Moreover, the Democrats will eventually get complacent.

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Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:37 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Bill Mullins wrote:
I think there'll still be a party named "Republican" for a long time. The two-party system as we have it is too entrenched for a third party to arise.

The group that is called "Republican" twenty years from now, will most likely have some ideological differences from the one that exists today, though.

And this is important even to those of us who are unaffiliated (like Jim and I) because even if we aren't members of a party, the candidates always are. And the parties aren't about to let that change.

Possible -- but not necessarily the way to bet. How long did the Whigs survive after the Republican Party was founded in the 1850's IIRC they didn't even run a candidate in 1864.


Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:48 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Point of order - may I suggest Jim split this off into a new topic a few pages back, since it isn't anything to do with Ms. Palin's Heinleinliness any more.


Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:17 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Peter Scott wrote:
Point of order - may I suggest Jim split this off into a new topic a few pages back, since it isn't anything to do with Ms. Palin's Heinleinliness any more.

I was just thinking that myself. Fortunately I've become familiar with phpBB's thread manager - I almost killed the other thread I split before I mastered its intricacies.

General notice: Threads/topics are your friend. And everyone else's. If you have a completely new topic, even if it derives from something in an existing thread, start a new topic to hold it. Having threads mutate over time is confusing and can get boring.

Thanks!

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In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:43 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
James Gifford wrote:
Peter Scott wrote:
Point of order - may I suggest Jim split this off into a new topic a few pages back, since it isn't anything to do with Ms. Palin's Heinleinliness any more.

I was just thinking that myself. Fortunately I've become familiar with phpBB's thread manager - I almost killed the other thread I split before I mastered its intricacies.

General notice: Threads/topics are your friend. And everyone else's. If you have a completely new topic, even if it derives from something in an existing thread, start a new topic to hold it. Having threads mutate over time is confusing and can get boring.

Thanks!


While you are exactly correct, the starting of new threads can be a disease in itself. Be careful what you wish for. Moderation may be for monks but it's a virtue.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:47 am
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Post Re: SPLIT THREAD: Political Parties
It's really up to the users and how they choose to use the playpen. Generally, some topic drift, sprinkling of irrelevancies and eventual winding down of a thread/topic are to be expected. However, right-angle turns and completely new topics chained onto a thread make for the online equivalent of flatbread - dense, hard to manage and not all that tasty.

There is the class of user who likes everything in one thread so what is supposed to be a "topic" becomes a mini-forum in itself. Warm, comforting, easy, but... not the best way to carry on a public conversation.

I have not had to pinch anyone for excessive topic drift. This is the first time I've stepped in and separated out what should have been posted as a new thread. I hope to do neither very often.

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In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:54 pm
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