View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:03 am



Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like? 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:24 am
Posts: 265
Location: Northwest Georgia
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
PeterScott wrote:
Your reasoning makes sense (although I could argue that the surgeon should drop in order to provide battlefield medical support), but the story is self-inconsistent - at one point he says "everyone drops but the surgeon" and another he says "everyone drops but the sick," after making a big deal about the chaplain dropping.

The sick MI don't drop because they are sick. The surgeon doesn't drop because he is not MI just like the pilots and the rest of the Naval personnel don't drop because they are not MI. The chaplain, if they have one is MI.
In the environment of an MI drop, where the troopers are spread out over several square miles, there is no place for a WWII or Korean type 'medic' to run around and try to fix up the wounded on the spot. The best that can be done on the spot is to do pick up, and get them back aboard the ship where the surgeon can work on them, if they live. "Flores died on the way up".


Thu May 30, 2013 1:43 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 10:54 am
Posts: 48
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
Like Mr. Gifford, I am fascinated by what isn't in the novel. While the plot is a straightforward story of enlistment, training, and fighting, it isn't only the Bug War that is left unfinished at the end. Rico's journey to citizenship is also left off in its middle. Heinlein is clear that he is presenting a different kind of society, where government service is voluntary but all voting citizens are veterans. He spends some time arguing for the benefit of a post-service citizenry, but I don't know if we actually meet any citizen other than Dubois in the story.

It's a curious omission, and I find myself speculating more on what happens to Rico after the War. How does he continue his growing up into citizenship? Is public office in his future? Exactly how does the transition from retirement to citizenship work? I wouldn't go so far as to say that The Citizen is the story element that is missing, and I don't want to see Dubois return physically in the story (either as John Wayne or Mazer Rackham).

I don't think that the movie should explicitly be about the greater society and the questions of citizenship; I just want it to leave those questions for the viewer to think about later. The big story is of a healthy society facing a threat, told as one individual's relationship to the society and the threat. The threat is military, so the story is about the military resolution, but I wouldn't say that it is "pro-war," whatever that might mean. I think an interesting movie treatment might highlight the threat (which is almost in the background in the book) and Rico's place in society in deciding to, training for, and ultimately fighting against that threat. Sort of like High Noon, I guess. (Though that puts the senior Rico in the Grace Kelly role, which is something to think about.)

_________________
-LilLeaguer


Fri May 31, 2013 12:27 pm
Profile
NitroForum Oldster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:57 am
Posts: 669
Location: DC Metro
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
I always thought of Starship Troopers as a classic Heinlein juvenile, not unlike Rocketship Galileo, Red Planet, or Tunnel in the Sky. Coming-of-age tale starring typical (though more curious than most) 1950s-era American teenage boys. Take away the red scare subtext and that's what you're left with. Heinlein himself (as Jim has thoroughly and convincingly argued in his essay many years ago) couldn't remember the details of the plot or the essential political point of the story. So, it's just a juvenile, no more or less entertaining than the others, through legendary because of the political controversy.

_________________
"Being right too soon is socially unacceptable." - Heinlein, Expanded Universe


Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:59 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:42 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Northern VA
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
I agree with you Jack. Absent the initial stages of what the VN war eventually became, ST would have been seen as just another one of RAH's coming of age excursions.

I had started a reply to LilLeager to mention that, but then got tied up in pointing out that RAH did not "do" biographies, or, save in his later work, multi-generational stories [TEfL, etc.], and abandoned that reply as a lost cause. Sigh.

_________________
OJ III


Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:19 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:24 am
Posts: 265
Location: Northwest Georgia
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
LilLeaguer wrote:
He spends some time arguing for the benefit of a post-service citizenry, but I don't know if we actually meet any citizen other than Dubois in the story.


When Johnny, Pat Leivy and Kitten Smith had leave and went to Vancouver, they encountered a citizen in the form of a policeman with 'ribbons on his chest' who encouraged them to go to the Social Center. Instead, they went to Seattle and had an unfriendly encounter with some young fellows about their age. After the encounter was over, they met two more citizens, also policemen, who sent them "farther up town".


Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:37 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 540
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
DavidWrightSr wrote:
When Johnny, Pat Leivy and Kitten Smith had leave and went to Vancouver, they encountered a citizen in the form of a policeman with 'ribbons on his chest' who encouraged them to go to the Social Center. Instead, they went to Seattle and had an unfriendly encounter with some young fellows about their age. After the encounter was over, they met two more citizens, also policemen, who sent them "farther up town".


The first policeman, with ribbons, impresses Johnny -- I can see why it might be safe to infer that he is a veteran/citizen. But I don't see anything about the other two that would imply that they are citizens (unless citizenship is required to be a policeman? If so, I missed that)


Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:12 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 540
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
Well, it turns out that police are veterans. From Chap 11, towards the end, Ace says "Someday I'll make sergeant . . . and presently I'll have my twenty years in and retire and get one of the reserved jobs — cop, maybe — and marry a nice fat wife."


Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:38 pm
Profile
PITA Bred
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 2401
Location: The Quiet Earth
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
I don't think I've looked closed at ST since the last revision to my Federal Service paper. I wonder if it would be possible to map the sociopolitical arrangement of ST's world? The FS paper would be a good start, as it quotes every sentence referring to government and service. There might be a few more comments, like the one Bill M just cited, that fill in the gaps.

The map would be mostly holes, but that would be illustrative in itself.

_________________
"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:00 am
Profile

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:52 pm
Posts: 136
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
JamesGifford wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to map the sociopolitical arrangement of ST's world?


It seems to me that such a map would require a large area of terra incognita in the center: "Scientifically Verifiable Theory of Morals." Perhaps if Heinlein had not written ST in a hurry, he wouldn't have needed Johnnie's teacher to simply assert (without further explanation) that their society's idea of right and wrong action, and in turn its political system, was based on such a theory. Not to say he could have constructed a SVTM himself even if he'd had years to do so. (When I first learned the term "hand-waving," this is the example that immediately came to mind.)

I wonder how the emphasis on the public use of the lash for punishment would fit in. Fear of such punishment, we are given to understand, is enough to keep most people behaving lawfully - and, of course, only veterans get to vote (for legislators, or to enact laws directly by referendum; I don't think it's made clear) and thereby determine who is subject to the lash.


Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:33 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:40 pm
Posts: 540
Post Re: What would a real Starship Troopers movie look like?
Was the lash used in society at large? Or only within the military? or only within the MI? (neither of which I would necessarily consider to be a "public use").


Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:27 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF