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RAH on Citizenship 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:29 am
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Post RAH on Citizenship
Now that the YAHOO (political party) Conventions have finished I would like to discuss the great man's writings. I am speaking of course of his second most IMPORTANT book "STARSHIP TROOPERS". This penultimate discertation on citizenship covers alot a territory. First to be a CITIZEN you had to serve in some function including military forces. I wonder if thats where the state of Israel got the idea. Not being a citizen you had limited rights including right to VOTE!!!!. I guess it means more if you gotta work for it, it means a hell of alot more.Not being a citizen did not guarentee poverty. Check out Rico's parents. They were well to do and not citizens. High School had the compulsory course in civics that exposed the kids to the REAL WORLD. Taught by a combat veteran citizen. When Rico joins the TROOPERS to follow his girl friend was when his real education started.
I was going to mention the movie---- but it was the worse adaptation EVER MADE, and I almost gave up going to the movies. That's for another time.
NOTE: democracy from the Greek demos people, crocy rule = mob rule? :mrgreen:


Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:44 am
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Post Re: RAH on Citizenship
The thing to tread cautiously on here is that ST says almost nothing about the actual government - there's much about how to qualify to be a citizen/voter, but almost nothing - literally - about the actual structure, form, policies, principles etc. of the resulting government. It's easy to read your own beliefs and prejudices into the description and take your thinking off a cliff.

And that's without getting into whether "Federal Service" = "military service" or not. :D


Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:45 pm
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Post Re: RAH on Citizenship
CharlesO wrote:
First to be a CITIZEN you had to serve in some function including military forces. I wonder if thats where the state of Israel got the idea.


The State of Israel (and its defense force, which has always depended on both male and female 18-year-old conscripts) predates Starship Troopers by more than 10 years.

With respect to the specific details of the ST government, they aren't really important because, after all, the whole society is based on a "scientifically verifiable theory of morals" (chapter 8) that presumably all right-thinking people can agree upon. How nice that such a theory was developed; now no one need disagree once they've been shown the right path.

This reminds me of the swibbles in P. K. Dick's 1955 short story "Service Call" that served the same purpose: The earliest swibbles identified people who weren't politically aligned with everyone else on our side versus the enemy; later swibbles simply differentiated people who didn't want to be differentiated by swibbles, and the most current ones adjust your attitude automatically to ensure your loyalty: "You know the sense of security and satisfaction in being certain that your ideology is exactly congruent with that of everybody else in the world."

Of course the people in Dick's story are horrified by this prospect (swibbles not having been invented yet; the swibble repairman ended up in the past by mistake). Would the citizens in Starship Troopers have welcomed it instead?


Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:00 pm
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Post Re: RAH on Citizenship
CharlesO wrote:
NOTE: democracy from the Greek demos people, crocy rule = mob rule?

"Mob" in Greek is oklos; mob rule is ochlocracy, which has been cross-defined as democracy spoiled by demagoguery.


Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:45 pm
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