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Real life Heinlein characters 
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PITA Bred
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Post Re: Real life Heinlein characters
sakeneko wrote:
I always wonder why anybody let the words "progressive" and "liberal" be turned into insults.

Nutshell? Because those who got their support in indirect ways think it's a waste of money to support those who need support in more identifiable ways.

But there's no one (okay, make that no significant fraction, much much less than 'one percent') in the US who is not on the receiving end of a massive flow of subsidies, supports, stabilization funds etc. that come from the collective pocket and stem largely from "progressive" thinking. The investor who benefits from a stable, protected and low-tax environment has no business sneering at someone who simply gets a check from time to time.


Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:28 am
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Post Re: Real life Heinlein characters
Does anyone remember a Heinlein story that used mind control gas? This post came up on the Heinlein Society Facebook site. I don't remember anything like this. How about any story that used mind control gas? I imagine there could be several.

i read one of his books long ago... am trying to remember the name of it.... all i remember is people were being controlled by a mind gas and those in charge had little filters in their nose... can anyone help me out here?


Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:36 pm
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Heinlein Nexus
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Post Re: Real life Heinlein characters
No mind control gas, but perhaps you are thinking of Sixth Column.


Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:30 pm
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Post Re: Real life Heinlein characters
I've come across another "therblig" besides the Notebooks entry: early in Methuselah's Children (1958 version) in the initial conversation between Lazarus and A. J. Libby, just after their discussion suddenly becomes technical.


Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Real life Heinlein characters
regarding the previous question about mind control. i may have unearthed the material that Thinker was referencing- in Revolt in 2100, the short story "If This Goes On" relates the story of a cabal meeting where hypnotic "conditioning" is broached as an aid to overthrow the Prophet. An cabal elder protests "free men aren't conditioned" "to be saddled and rode". this speaks to the mind control Thinker had mentioned

anyone recall another story which is relevant to Thinker's query?

as for real life RAH characters, an old gentleman i knew as a child falls into this category- mr. bye was elderly, slight, maybe 80 or so, and lived alone with his old dog- a very kind and gentle man-a couple local hoods figured he'd be an easy mark to rob- they barged into his home with evil intent and exited with mr bye beating them about the head and shoulders with his cane- he was not about to suffer the indignity of being robbed or roughly handled by a couple punks- think RAH would've uttered "Bravo!" for mr bye standing his ground despite the odds


Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:25 pm
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PITA Bred
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Post Re: Real life Heinlein characters
NickDoten wrote:
regarding the previous question about mind control. i may have unearthed the material that Thinker was referencing- in Revolt in 2100, the short story "If This Goes On" relates the story of a cabal meeting where hypnotic "conditioning" is broached as an aid to overthrow the Prophet. An cabal elder protests "free men aren't conditioned" "to be saddled and rode". this speaks to the mind control Thinker had mentioned

Something of a sidelight, but comparative reading of the two versions of ITGO can be illuminative. In the first version, the cabal accepts the notion of re-conditioning. In the rewrite, the Mark Twain/Jahweh-like elder thunders against it, then drops dead to emphasize his point.

There's a dissertation in there somewhere.


Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:41 am
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Post Re: Real life Heinlein characters
JJGarsch wrote:
I've come across another "therblig" besides the Notebooks entry: early in Methuselah's Children (1958 version) in the initial conversation between Lazarus and A. J. Libby, just after their discussion suddenly becomes technical.

That's it. Damn, as I read that the whole scene popped into my head. I used to have absolutely encyclopedic recall of the canon - frankly, it's how I wrote RAHARC, only checking things after I'd written them - and the finer shades and frailer pages have been fading away for years. Ah, time...


Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:42 am
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Post Re: Real life Heinlein characters
sakeneko wrote:
I always wonder why anybody let the words "progressive" and "liberal" be turned into insults. Ditto "do gooders". Progress, liberty, and doing good aren't qualities that I think we as a country or as part of the human race would want to discourage, although I find some ideas of what constitutes those things or will promote them to be a bit dodgy.


Bill Patterson's recent essay is relevant: http://www.cato-unbound.org/2012/07/05/william-h-patterson-jr/three-at-risk-children-of-the-enlightenment/

"Liberal" was originally about liberty, but eventually people who called themselves "liberal" became the founders of the Nanny State. "Progressives" always saw progress as being guided by a big central government. So in America, people who were "liberty liberals" called them on what the terms really meant, and they won the intellectual argument. American "conservatives" today are generally just right-liberals. Bill notes, "the old world is visibly, palpably passing away" so I suspect we'll have a whole new set of labels to discuss in a generation or so.

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Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:18 am
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