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A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff? 
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PITA Bred
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
JohnBlack wrote:
...you have confirmed that the story does indeed exist.

Sorry for any misunderstanding, but that is one "story" that needs firm tromping every time it arises.

All too often the vast difference between "a story exists" and "it is a fact that" gets blurred. Yes, there is such a story. There "are stories" that Heinlein was a fascist, a misogynist, a Mason and a Mormon, too. :mrgreen:

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In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:08 pm
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
Cuuute, Jack.

I try to avoid casting games, but always thought that Rufus Sewell would make (would have made, when a little younger?) an excellent VMS.

But then, I can never watch Shakespeare in Love without thinking what a fantastic Marid Audran Joseph Fiennes would make...

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"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:13 pm
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Heinlein Nexus
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
That poster is inspiring, Jack. There are so many places you could post it where it would be taken seriously, too.

I will agree that Mr. Depp is the best actor alive under fifty. I still can't see him as VMS, though. Dustin Hoffman twenty years ago, now that would be another matter. Will Smith... I can see that, actually.

While there are some striking parallels between Douglas and the current president, I'm not sure ours stays bought. Since he lacks a SAG card, though, I would in any case have to go with either a younger Wilford Brimley or a present day Randy Quaid.

LL as Gillian... argh. Try Scarlett Johansson.


Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:47 pm
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
Peter Scott wrote:
LL as Gillian... argh. Try Scarlett Johansson.


I heartily concur - she's a far superior talent. It's just that (not meant as a sexist comment) Scarlett might well balk at the required "exposure" while LL almost certainly would not. Both are endowed appropriately.

Some of the changes I would make in adapting the novel - not that I'm qualified:

1. Change Jill's profession from nurse to physician
2. Lose the concept of a wordwide government with sovereign authority and make Douglas President of the US. I don't think the concept of Terra-wide governent is plausible in the near future, although I recognize the difficulties with the protocol in the negotiations with "Mars".
3. Possibly keep Ben Caxton as a newpaper columnist but lose the archaic newpaper references and give him some talking head airtime on cable TV and the Internet.
4. Definitely keep Miss Dawn Ardent, but make her a porn star instead of a stripper - "stripper" was probably the most risque profession Heinlein could imagine (aside from prostitute I guess) in the time period it was written in.
5. Need to excise and consolidate some considerable amount of plot and characters - I would probably eliminate Patty and her snake, mostly because she comes from an already archaic world of traveling carnivals that will not survive in any recognizable form in the near future.
6. No problem with Mike honing his stage skills as a magician - there are plenty of comedy clubs where he could practice his skills on "open mike" nights, but again the carnival concept won't fly
7. Unfortunately, it's even easier to realistically depict the circus atmosphere of a Fosterite church service in today's world of predatory evangelistic television "ministries". Probably would need to make Fosterism even more outrageous to keep up with current and recent events.

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Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:26 pm
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
How about Michael Douglas as Jubal?


Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:44 pm
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
JohnBlack wrote:
How about Michael Douglas as Jubal?

Not bad - I like him at his best. He'd have to "flip" and play an oldster, though, which he hasn't done yet. He's still pretending to be 40-something and groping the 20-something costars.

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"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:16 pm
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
James Gifford wrote:
JohnBlack wrote:
...you have confirmed that the story does indeed exist.

Sorry for any misunderstanding, but that is one "story" that needs firm tromping every time it arises.

All too often the vast difference between "a story exists" and "it is a fact that" gets blurred. Yes, there is such a story. There "are stories" that Heinlein was a fascist, a misogynist, a Mason and a Mormon, too. :mrgreen:


No need for apology! We're just conversing, right?

I actually didn't know if the story was true or not - my point was about how many people react. To me, it would be irrelevant whether Manson was influenced by the book. It would be an independent topic. However, not everyone thinks as I do.

I have since been doing some googling. It appears that Manson did name his son Valentine Michael Manson. This would be a pretty big leap of faith to believe the choice of names was coincidence. On the other hand, perhaps this is a case of the chicken or the egg. Did the naming of the child occur after the appearance of the story that Manson was influenced by SIASL?

In other words, did the story become a self-fulfilling prophecy? Perhaps Manson wasn't influenced by SIASL - perhaps instead he was influenced by the story that he was influenced by SIASL.


Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:42 pm
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
James Gifford wrote:
JohnBlack wrote:
How about Michael Douglas as Jubal?

Not bad - I like him at his best. He'd have to "flip" and play an oldster, though, which he hasn't done yet. He's still pretending to be 40-something and groping the 20-something costars.


Peter O'Toole if he was a little younger?

Always been impressed by him. Even recently, I saw him in Stardust and his part was all of 5 minutes long at the beginning of the movie and he still had impact.


Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:50 pm
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
JohnBlack wrote:
Peter O'Toole if he was a little younger?.


Uh, I think Jubal needs to be an American.


Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:21 pm
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Post Re: A Heinlein film, or a Heinlein ripoff?
JohnBlack wrote:
It appears that Manson did name his son Valentine Michael Manson. This would be a pretty big leap of faith to believe the choice of names was coincidence. On the other hand, perhaps this is a case of the chicken or the egg. Did the naming of the child occur after the appearance of the story that Manson was influenced by SIASL?

Manson was in custody by the time all the stories started circulating. I once ran down all the details and as best as I can recollect without doing some digging again is that one of the girls was a Stranger buff, but that Manson himself was ignorant/disinterested and only influenced by the general gist of Stranger that permeated the counterculture at the time.

So "the story" does have some real elements to it, but in the end, Stranger was no more an influence on Manson than many minor things. He certainly did not form or model the family after the novel's ideas.

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"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:24 pm
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