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Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever 
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
That or he's reading last year's macroeconomics books from the remainder pile. :D

Seriously, Bill, any chance McCain had went out the window when he picked Caribou Barbie for his running mate. Have you SEEN what even the very die-hard, rock-ribbed 'Pubbies are saying?

Frankly, it's a year for None of the Above. But Obama is less NOTA than McPalin.

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Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:02 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Peter Scott wrote:
Bill Patterson wrote:
I don't see any real possibility that President Hussein will get elected.


Are you basing your projections on polls in obscure New Mexican towns?

Nope, they all seem to be for Obama.

I'm basing it on a no-dog-in-this-race sense of watching the circus for 50+ years. There are just so many factors in this race that don't get talked about in the news outlets that can conceivably have major effect when the curtains close on the voting booth, that I tend to discount the apparent "groundswell" as posisbly a media creation rather than a reflection of the political realities.

The fact that the candidates are polling so close. even at this late date in the game, suggests to me that the realities are different than the appearances.


Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:18 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
James Gifford wrote:
That or he's reading last year's macroeconomics books from the remainder pile. :D

Seriously, Bill, any chance McCain had went out the window when he picked Caribou Barbie for his running mate. Have you SEEN what even the very die-hard, rock-ribbed 'Pubbies are saying?

Frankly, it's a year for None of the Above. But Obama is less NOTA than McPalin.

Don't see it. Look, on one side of this mess we've got someone who looks and talks like the AV Club geek with very limited national experience and a talent for talking vaporware, teamed up with a false front whose most major national exposure has been a scandal over plagiarism. Oh, and he's black. On the other side we've got a creaky crook (he earned my undying enmity in the Keating 7 scandal when he said -"oh, helping my constituents steal fromthe public trough is part of my job as a senator"-) hooked up to a complete unknown who is a perkie consie chick. The fact that McCain's obvious liabilities don't have him polling in the low thirties suggests to me the possibility that we're looking at a replay of the 2004 campaign (remember Kerry being handed the biggest anti-republican coalition in history and blowing it anyway?)

Even if you're voting *against* a candidate in this election (since there really isn't a major party candidate one coudl credibly be *for*), you need to hold your nose and vote against McCain as well as Obama.


Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:26 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
"No matter how cynical you try to be, you just can't keep up."
--Lily Tomlin

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Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:32 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
It became apparent after last night's debate - Palin managing to exceed the expectations that were so low that all she had to do was stay vertical - that she is following the tried and true strategy of Bush in appealing to the unwashed masses. She even pronounces nuclear as 'noo-koo-lar' like he does. With the gosh darns and the foreign-policy-is-hard noise that comes out when you pull her string, she's really just a GWB that's easier on the eyes.


Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:16 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Quote:
However, I've been very amused by the fact that the Black and the Woman got on opposite tickets in this election, so that there is a very real possibility of a Hundred (and Fifty) Year Revenge from Frederick Douglass' betrayal of his feminist constituency.


Women aren't real fond of her. Most of us don't like her failure to answer questions any better than anyone else.


Quote:
(I don't see any real possibility that President Hussein will get elected).


When you start with the "Hussein" nonsense, you put yourself into the same class as racists and idiots. C'mon Bill -- I know that white guys have territory to defend, but this is beneath you, as it is beneath the guy I go out with. Use reason rather than racism, and issues rather than mud.


Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:44 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
TinaBlack wrote:
[
Quote:
(I don't see any real possibility that President Hussein will get elected).


When you start with the "Hussein" nonsense, you put yourself into the same class as racists and idiots. C'mon Bill -- I know that white guys have territory to defend, but this is beneath you, as it is beneath the guy I go out with. Use reason rather than racism, and issues rather than mud.

Tina, I'm not making an argument or defending a position -- I'm portraying elephant-in-the-living-room attitudes that I don't think are being adequately represented or factored into the estimates here (that's the point I'm exploring here -- the cripplingly inadequate portrayal of the issues in media presentations and polling).

It's not "just" no-neck racism, though that factor is certainly there; I think the "Muslim sympathizer" was dealt with earlier in the campaign in a way that deals with the topmost layer of objections but doesn't really touch the more substantial and possibly even unconscious layers underneath -- for which reason I suspect that a lot of voters are telling pollsters one thing but when the curtain closes they will vote another thing, and it's completely impossible to quantify that effect, because it's being swept under the carpet in the public discussion.

And in this particular discussion, I'm trying to get people to open up a little to a massive discontinuity in the reported facts with their view of what's going on in the process. If Obama were really so manifestly superior in his positioning in the race, the crook and the perkie consie chick would not be polling so close together. There are factors that drive that result, and they are not inconsiderable in rationally projecting an outcome.

And here's another just to toss in another element to the mix. Almost everyone I heard talk about the "nation of whiners" comment McCain made earlier said it was a crippling gaffe. I think, to the contrary, it worked with at least part of his constituency to position McCain as as a speaker-of-uncomfortable truths, i.e., as a "realistic" and therefore presidential person. And it will work to some unknown extent that way in Obama's constituency as well. How much I can't tell, but it's there.


Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:29 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Bill Patterson wrote:
It's not "just" no-neck racism, though that factor is certainly there; I think the "Muslim sympathizer" was dealt with earlier in the campaign in a way that deals with the topmost layer of objections but doesn't really touch the more substantial and possibly even unconscious layers underneath -- for which reason I suspect that a lot of voters are telling pollsters one thing but when the curtain closes they will vote another thing, and it's completely impossible to quantify that effect, because it's being swept under the carpet in the public discussion.


I agree and I've been saying the same thing for some time now. If Obama is not polling a minimum of 10 points ahead of McCain the day before election day, he is likely to lose because of the "Bradley effect;" subsequently it would be known as the "Obama effect."

BTW, the same thing almost happened here in the 1989 Virginia governor's race. Doug Wilder was leading his white Republican opponent by 15 points in the polls up to election day, and ended up winning by less than one percent.

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Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:27 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
While we're discussing *ahem* interesting candidates this season:

http://iowahouse.org/2008/10/03/candida ... /#more-748

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Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:56 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Bill Patterson wrote:
TinaBlack wrote:
[
Quote:
(I don't see any real possibility that President Hussein will get elected).


When you start with the "Hussein" nonsense, you put yourself into the same class as racists and idiots.

Tina, I'm not making an argument or defending a position -- I'm portraying elephant-in-the-living-room attitudes that I don't think are being adequately represented or factored into the estimates here ....

It's not "just" no-neck racism, though that factor is certainly there; I think the "Muslim sympathizer" was dealt with earlier in the campaign in a way that deals with the topmost layer of objections but doesn't really touch the more substantial and possibly even unconscious layers underneath -- for which reason I suspect that a lot of voters are telling pollsters one thing but when the curtain closes they will vote another thing, and it's completely impossible to quantify that effect.

I'm afraid your right on this one. Judging from the emails my redneck racist fundamentalist relatives are cirulating, no one in their circle is even slightly ashamed of the 'Hussein' attacks, or any of the other crap I have been archiving in my 'family' folder. Add the ones who pretend to be too ashamed to vote on that basis, but still really believe in the multiple 'threats' Obama represents, and the polls become meaningless.
If that base doesn't come through for the Republicans, they still have Florida and the Supremes, and -- who knows? they might have even more contingency plans than those proven winners.

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Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:57 am
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