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Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever 
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Post Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Discuss: http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/6222.html


Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:59 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Not intended as a personal slight, but...

I think I'm going to be sick.

Both Ginny and Leslyn were highly intelligent, accomplished women who achieved much in a pre-feminist world. Heinlein did indeed base many of his female characters on these women. By most accounts, Leslyn was extremely liberal and Ginny was a mainstream conservative.

But neither of these women were frauds.

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Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:34 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
:o :evil: :x


Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:42 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
I usually encourage civility here - and Bill M., no personal offense, but...

:D :o :shock: :o :D

It's possible Palin could grow into a Heinleinian woman and leader... she just needs a little experience.

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In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Jack Kelly wrote:
By most accounts, Leslyn was extremely liberal

This is the standard line, and I wonder to what extent it is true. Ancestry.com has made voter registration records from California available on their website, and Leslyn was a registered Republican before she married Robert.


Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:42 pm
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Bill Mullins wrote:
This is the standard line, and I wonder to what extent it is true. Ancestry.com has made voter registration records from California available on their website, and Leslyn was a registered Republican before she married Robert.


That's interesting. All you left-coasters on this board know more about this than I do, but there is a long-dead history of liberal or progressive Republicanism in California that was still active when Leslyn came of age in the 20s and 30s. California was important in the Progressive Era. Progressive Bull Moose candidate Teddy Roosevelt carried California in the 1912 general election and the Progressive Hiram Johnson was Governor of California from 1911 until 1917 and Senator from 1917 until his death in 1945. Johnson was Teddy Roosevelt’s running mate in 1912. Liberals in the party continued to wield great influence until Goldwater's conservative takeover in 1964. Of course, we know that Robert ran as a Democrat in the 1938 primary for the state legislature.

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Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:26 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Jack has the gist of it there; if Bill P. stops by he can expound at greater length.

The flaw here, Bill (M.), is that the political parties and terms have evolved over time. Leslyn being a Republican (probably because her parents were) does not mean the same thing in 1938 that it does now. Neither does her becoming a Democrat (almost certainly because RAH was). The stances and platforms of both parties have changed greatly in seventy years, and the very terms liberal and conservative barely share a nodding acquaintance between their versions of the prewar and present eras.

Perhaps you intended something different - and feel free to hop up on the box and expound - but the only shred of validity your original claim has is based on some very narrow interpretations of the terms involved.

Which, sad to say, is pretty much what passes political discourse these days - one set of fossilized slogans and shibboleths thrown at another.

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In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:51 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
Bill Mullins wrote:
This is the standard line...

We don't do standard lines here. The newsgroups can languidly bat irrelevancies and red herrings back and forth all day (and, in fact, do).

If you have any question at all that LH was EXTREMELY liberal in the broad social and political sense, you haven't read any of the biographical info that's been published in the last few years.

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"Hier stehe ich. Ich kann nicht anders." - Luther
In the end, I found Heinlein is finite. Thus, finite analysis is needed.


Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:54 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
James Gifford wrote:
If you have any question at all that LH was EXTREMELY liberal in the broad social and political sense, you haven't read any of the biographical info that's been published in the last few years.

I'll bite: give me a list of the biographical info that's been published in the last few years and I'll buy what I don't already have. I am profoundly interested in not just Heinlein but the women he was close to, who influenced whom and in what fashion, etc.

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Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:31 am
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Post Re: Sarah Palin: Most "Heinleinian" VP Candidate Ever
The primary piece is Robert James' biographical sketch of Leslyn that was published in the Heinlein Journal a couple of years ago. If you're not one of the few whose library might be able to get a copy through ILL, then you can get a reprint from Bill P.

Issue #9, July 2001. There were some followup short articles and letters in subsequent issues.


Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:55 pm
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