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"The Heritage of Heinlein" Book
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/thsnexus/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1555
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Author:  RobertPearson [ Mon May 19, 2014 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

I had never seen this one before a chance Amazon discovery--http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078647498X/

Did a search for "Clareson" on this Forum but got no hits, so no one has brought him up, apparently.

The Amazon page shows a publication date of Jan. 2014, but apparently Prof. Clareson was working on it when he died over 20 years ago, and Sanders has taken the original draft and produced this book.

The preface notes "Tom tracked down the identity of Heinlein's first wife" which is interesting; how many people knew about that before 1993?

Other than that, has anyone here seen or read the book? It's pretty expensive, but I might buy it if there was some high-quality original material.

Author:  PeterScott [ Mon May 19, 2014 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

Well well well... good catch. Never heard of these guys. I've ordered it.

Author:  beamjockey [ Tue May 20, 2014 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

"Look Inside" allows one to read the entire Foreword by Frederik Pohl, which is meatier than I was expecting. It's Fred's view of Heinlein's career, and it's terrific. Sure, there are a few factual errors, but Fred is beyond correction now.

Author:  RobertPearson [ Thu May 22, 2014 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

I see that Thomas Clareson appears in v. 2 of the biography- p. 369, invites Heinlein to a meeting of the MLA in 1975.

Author:  DavidWrightSr [ Tue May 27, 2014 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

I am reading it now. I have noticed a number of things that I might have concerns about, but will have to wait until I have a chance to re-read and study it.

One thing, I definitely disagree with is his comment that Starship Troopers "vehemently treats its readers as children". [p.131]

What is your opinion about that?

Author:  RobertPearson [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

DavidWrightSr wrote:
I am reading it now. I have noticed a number of things that I might have concerns about, but will have to wait until I have a chance to re-read and study it.

One thing, I definitely disagree with is his comment that Starship Troopers "vehemently treats its readers as children". [p.131]

What is your opinion about that?


That's interesting, in that I've understood from various sources that ST was, theoretically a "juvenile." I am eager to read the full material in v. II of the biography (out next week!) and see what Heinlein (and Patterson) have to say.

I never felt that Heinlein treated his readers (or me) as children, even when writing for the "juvenile" audience.

Author:  RLetson [ Wed May 28, 2014 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

It's not news that ST was written for the Scribner's "juvenile" line, or that Heinlein had felt increasingly confined by the house's (particularly editor Alice Dalgliesh's) notion of what was suitable for the target audience as they conceived it. (And that audience was not only actual kids but also kids-as-imagined-by-librarians and the journal reviewers who influenced library purchasing.) It's pretty clear that in these books Heinlein was addressing young people, though he certainly did not think of them as children in the "think of the childrun" sense, nor did he intend to talk down to them. According to Bill P, after Scribner's rejected it, the decision was to was to issue the novel "by the Putnam's Children's Department, but design and promote it on their adult list." Putnam's did not demand changes, but in the editing process Heinlein expanded the original text by more than 30,000 words.

I've just finished a long review of Volume 2 of the biography (look for it in the July Locus) and could probably cite more chapter and verse, but fatigue, a finally-receding headcold, and a snootfull of oak pollen are making me lazy.

That said, I can see where some readers might (and did) get impatient with the (literal) lecturing in ST. I was within the target demographic when I first read it around 1961, and I thought that the finger-wagging was closer to my nose than I cared for. (And I was a big fan of G.B. Shaw as well as RAH, so it's not like I'd never been on the receiving end of one of those convention-inverting recitals.) Nor did I agree with the socio-political ideas in the book, though I did not take them to be Heinlein's own personal, absolute, real-world policy notions. Sometimes my nose was being tweaked instead of finger-wagged-at by the Old Man.

I've only seen the intro sections of The Heritage of Heinlein, but I've known Joe Sanders for going on forty years and respect his common sense and good will. Last thing I saw of his was a sympathetic monograph on Doc Smith. (I knew Tom Clareson, too, but not as well--he was a senior figure when I was still in grad school and just starting to write about SF. In fact, he published my first academic piece, on Phil Farmer.)

Author:  BillMullins [ Thu May 29, 2014 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

RLetson wrote:
in the editing process Heinlein expanded the original text [of Starship Troopers] by more than 30,000 words.


The the original text must have been awfully short to start with -- it's not a long novel at all.

Author:  PeterScott [ Thu May 29, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

84,769 according to http://absolutewrite.com/forums/archive ... 94172.html .

Author:  RLetson [ Fri May 30, 2014 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "The Heritage of Heinlein" Book

If I recall correctly, Bill P's account has the original MS at 60K, expanded to 90K for the version published by Putnam. (Again, I'm too lazy to look up the relevant text in my index-less ARC.) Then, of course, it was abridged for the F&SF serialization, which is the version that set off the first round of discussion inside the field.

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