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Heinlein Reader's Discussion Group

Thursday 08-17-2000 9:00PM EDT

The Heinlein Society

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Here begin the AFH Postings


RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

Subject: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: bpral22169@aol.com (BPRAL22169)

Date: Thu, Aug 10, 2000 7:38 PM

Message-id: <20000810223853.11536.00000427@ng-bg1.aol.com>

This upcoming meeting of the Heinlein Readers' Group, we'll be talking about the Heinlein Society, which is now being formed. Ini fact, by that time we may be able to announce the incorporation. We'd like to get some discussion going among all interested parties about the exact shape of the Society.

The motto of the Society is "Pay It Forward." Since we can never pay him back, we can do what he asked of those he helped: pay it forward.

So: let's talk. What can we do -- what should we be doing to pay it forward.

Here are a few of the suggestions that have been made so far, to get the discussion going:

1. Library outreach program -- make sure that Heinleins books -- particularly the juveniles -- are kept in libraries and available for circulation.

2. Related to #1 -- encourage kids to read the books, early and often!

3. Blood Drives sponsored in his name. This was a favorite charity of his during his lifetime, and we will want to continue the tradition.

4. Appreciation -- The kind of thing we've been doing on the Readers' Group and in afh -- or something more?

5. Academic -- get Heinlein accepted in American Lit studies instead of only pop culture/genre studies.

6. Website. The Society's website (an "under construction" page is up at www.heinleinsociety.com) needs contents and plan. A Website Section is now being formed, headed by Kevin O'Brien. Anyone who wants to participate in the planning of the site, please contact him through fldax@aol.com.

And others -- let's get some preliminary discussion going. What obvious things

are we missing on this list -- what not-so-obvious ones? How should we go about getting kids to read the juveniles, for example. Let's start the discussion on the message boards so we'll be well prepared to discuss the subject on the 17th and 19th.

Bill

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Nuclear Waste" babybear@2z.net

Date: Thu, Aug 10, 2000 8:15 PM

Message-id: <39936fe3@news.2z.net>

"BPRAL22169" wrote in message news:20000810223853.11536.00000427@ng-bg1.aol.com...

Snip

What obvious things

> are we missing on this list ?

Snip

Doing everything we can to further space travel and exploration. If it seems to the group that I am naive in this, so be it. However, letters to the editor, your congresscritters etc. are just one way of doing this that spring readily to mind. Start small, then we can go for the grandiose schemes. Bury me on Mars.

NW

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: Trefor Thomas treefort@nexicom.net

Date: Thu, Aug 10, 2000 11:09 PM

Message-id: <06216577AC0C51AF.14215DEB727E618F.D0BD460EC97AF108@lp.airnews.net>

On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:15:35 -0500, "Nuclear Waste" wrote:

>Doing everything we can to further space travel and exploration. If it

>seems to the group that I am naive in this, so be it. However, letters to

>the editor, your congresscritters etc. are just one way of doing this that

>spring readily to mind. Start small, then we can go for the grandiose

>schemes. Bury me on Mars.

I agree with the sentiment, but you're still not thinking too small, Jim. I _refuse_ to die until I can be buried on an earth-type planet circling any star except Sol. Alpha Centauri, Epsilon Eridani, I don't care, but not Sol.

Trefor Thomas

To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem. To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely the domesticated.

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: Gaeltach gaeltach@fan.net.au

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 6:00 AM

Message-id: <3993F906.76B10CD4@fan.net.au>

Trefor Thomas wrote:

>On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 22:15:35 -0500, "Nuclear Waste"

>wrote:

>

>

>

>>Doing everything we can to further space travel and exploration. If it

>>seems to the group that I am naive in this, so be it. However, letters to

>>the editor, your congresscritters etc. are just one way of doing this that

>>spring readily to mind. Start small, then we can go for the grandiose

>>schemes. Bury me on Mars.

>

> I agree with the sentiment, but you're still not thinking too

>small, Jim. I _refuse_ to die until I can be buried on an earth-type

>planet circling any star except Sol. Alpha Centauri, Epsilon Eridani,

>I don't care, but not Sol.

Aw, I dunno. I kinda like our insignificant little star. I'm sure the others would be nice places to visit, but I wouldn't want to *die* there.

Sean

gaeltach@fan.net.au

***************

.... and now for something completely different:

Daedalus: nine, Peninsula: dead.

***************

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: prnzofthvs1@aol.comspamkill (Steve)

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 11:49 PM

Message-id: <20000812024905.24830.00000157@ng-fg1.aol.com>

>Aw, I dunno. I kinda like our insignificant little star. I'm sure the others

>would be nice places to visit, but I wouldn't want to *die* there.

>

>Sean

I plan to visit all of them, once I slip this mortal coil. Care to join me on a journey to the core of a red giant?

Steve

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Nuclear Waste" babybear@2z.net

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 11:53 PM

Message-id: <3994f492@news.2z.net>

"Steve" wrote in message news:20000812024905.24830.00000157@ng-fg1.aol.com...

>>Aw, I dunno. I kinda like our insignificant little star. I'm sure the others

>>would be nice places to visit, but I wouldn't want to *die* there.

>>

>>Sean

>

> I plan to visit all of them, once I slip this mortal coil. Care to join me on a

> journey to the core of a red giant?

>

> Steve

Sounds like a great idea, but on the gripping hand...

NW

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: William Dennis williamdennis@flink.com

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 11:57 PM

Message-id: <3994F562.98D0629A@flink.com>

Nuclear Waste wrote:

>

> "Steve" wrote in message

> news:20000812024905.24830.00000157@ng-fg1.aol.com...

>>>Aw, I dunno. I kinda like our insignificant little star. I'm sure the

> others

>>>would be nice places to visit, but I wouldn't want to *die* there.

>>>

>>>Sean

>>

>> I plan to visit all of them, once I slip this mortal coil. Care to join me

> on a

>> journey to the core of a red giant?

>>

>> Steve

>

> Sounds like a great idea, but on the gripping hand...

>

> NW

I plan to spend MY afterlife floating unseen in the dressing room of the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders.

--

William Dennis II

Are you a Republican? Democrat? You sure?

Take the World's Smallest Political Quiz to find out:

http://www.self-gov.org/lp-quiz.shtml

For information about the Libertarian Party, go to: http://www.lp.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------

"I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

--- Professor Bernardo de la Paz

Robert A. Heinlein's The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress

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[Next several OT posts snipped]

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: bpral22169@aol.com (BPRAL22169)

Date: Sat, Aug 12, 2000 11:45 AM

Message-id: <20000812144533.01876.00000106@ng-fd1.aol.com>

Gentles, can we get back to the subject -- which is, what the Heinlein Society in this life should be doing?

Thanks.

Bill

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Jani" jani@ossar.freeuk.com

Date: Sat, Aug 12, 2000 1:24 PM

Message-id: <6til5.13180$671.1550266@nnrp4.clara.net>

BPRAL22169 wrote in message news:20000812144533.01876.00000106@ng-fd1.aol.com...

> Gentles, can we get back to the subject -- which is, what the Heinlein Society

> in this life should be doing?

From an educational POV - I've used extracts from Heinlein in PSE classes (that's Personal and Social Education, in the UK; I'm sure there must be a similar course taught in US high schools). How about a teachers' resource pack, with extracts, discussion plans and suggested further reading based around themes such as personal responsibility, group ethics, citizenship, etc? I'd include religious tolerance as well, but I don't know what the legal position is regarding the teaching of religious matters in the US.

Jani

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: bpral22169@aol.com (BPRAL22169)

Date: Sun, Aug 13, 2000 11:16 AM

Message-id: <20000813141615.01538.00000125@ng-fs1.aol.com>

Educational issues pack --that's a darned good idea, Jani. How would you feel about recruiting a committee among members to discuss and eventualy do that?

I see something like this feeding into a number of the other projects.

Bill

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Jani" jani@ossar.freeuk.com

Date: Mon, Aug 14, 2000 2:08 PM

Message-id: <_iZl5.4806$7v2.680348@nnrp3.clara.net>

BPRAL22169 wrote in message news:20000813141615.01538.00000125@ng-fs1.aol.com...

There would obviously be a copyright issue, and therefore any ideas along those lines would have to go to Virginia first - if she is happy with the concept, I think there would be a lot of people here who would like to contribute. I'd certainly like to see how it would fit in with what is "allowed" in schools, both in the UK and the US.

I'm not good at recruiting, Bill - how do you suggest I should go about it? :)

Jani

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: bpral22169@aol.com (BPRAL22169)

Date: Mon, Aug 14, 2000 7:12 PM

Message-id: <20000814221253.20555.00000211@ng-fq1.aol.com>

>I'm not good at recruiting, Bill - how do you suggest I should go about it?

A couple of things -- talk to people in the n.g.s; people will come out of the woodwork. Also, do a short explanatory writeup of your intentions and we'll post it on the website so that new members can see what's going on and judge what projects they want to be partof.

That's a start, I think.

Bill

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Jani" jani@ossar.freeuk.com

Date: Tue, Aug 15, 2000 12:31 PM

Message-id:

BPRAL22169 wrote in message news:20000814221253.20555.00000211@ng-fq1.aol.com...

I need to know what is acceptable in schools on both sides of the pond - no point setting up a pack relating to religion if there are laws in the US which prohibit discussion, for instance. Should I just work out what, to me, would be a good PSE format for, say, 10th grade, and throwing that open for debate?

Jani

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: bpral22169@aol.com (BPRAL22169)

Date: Tue, Aug 15, 2000 7:34 PM

Message-id: <20000815223400.14278.00000110@ng-fd1.aol.com>

I think that would be a good way of proceeding. We can plane off the rough edges in conference, as it were

Just as an informational point, I don't believe there are laws in any jurisdiction of the U.S. limiting discussion of x, y, z issues -- it all works by parent pressure on local school boards.

Bill

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[next several OT posts snipped]

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: Ogden Johnson III ojiii@home.com

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 2:37 PM

Message-id:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 16:24:28 GMT, Ward Griffiths wrote:

>BPRAL22169 wrote:

>> "Bury me on Mars . . . bury me on any other star's planets." Boys, you're both

>> thinking too small -- don't need to bury me! Live. Dum vivimus vivamus.

>Damned straight. My preferred obituary has always been "missing and

>presumed".

OK, are you guys trying to smoke CryoRandy out of his lurk?

OJ III

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: prnzofthvs1@aol.comspamkill (Steve)

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 11:52 PM

Message-id: <20000812025216.24830.00000158@ng-fg1.aol.com>

>Damned straight. My preferred obituary has always been "missing and

>presumed".

>--

>Ward Griffiths

My good friend Monsieur Lestat and I heartily agree!

Steve

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Nuclear Waste" babybear@2z.net

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 9:50 AM

Message-id: <39942ed6@news.2z.net>

"BPRAL22169" wrote in message news:20000811102630.17555.00000633@ng-fd1.aol.com...

> "Bury me on Mars . . . bury me on any other star's planets." Boys, you're both

> thinking too small -- don't need to bury me! Live. Dum vivimus vivamus.

>

>

> Bill

I shall stick to my guns. Heinlein Crater if you please, after a sinful live of excess and then a chance to grow up and prove myself by laying my life down for the group. (Followed, of course, by waking up in a Tamara cuddle, after having been rescued and found to be the last guest needed for the end of _NotB_. )

NW

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: keris remNOreSPAM@keris.demon.co.uk.invalid

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 2:52 AM

Message-id: <2db675a6.1b6e7ec7@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com>

bpral22169@aol.com (BPRAL22169) wrote:

>So: let's talk. What can we do -- what should we be doing to

>pay it forward. Here are a few of the suggestions that have

>been made so far, to get the discussion going:

>

>1. Library outreach program -- make sure that Heinleins books

>-- particularly the juveniles -- are kept in libraries and

>available for circulation.

And in general that 'good' SF is kept in stock (for whatever value of 'good', but there is so much trash (Stirgeon's Law applies) that keeping the 'classics' available is something he would have found worthwhile).

>2. Related to #1 -- encourage kids to read the books, early

>and often!

Suggestions as to how? Most of the kids I know are from stfnal families anyway, so they will get the chance (in fact they'll have to be pretty determined to get away from SF). Giving them their own copies of the books at appropraite ages would be good, though. More of a problem are the ones who don't have stfnal (or even reading) families. What ways would be appropriate? Which are known to have worked?

>4. Appreciation -- The kind of thing we've been doing on the

>Readers' Group and in afh -- or something more?

Web sites? Literary articles and reviews?

>5. Academic -- get Heinlein accepted in American Lit studies

>instead of only pop culture/genre studies.

Again, in general encourage study of SF as part of literature not as a ghetto. Even more general, helping literacy programs (both juvenile and adult).

>6. Website. The Society's website (an "under construction"

>page is up at www.heinleinsociety.com) needs contents and plan.

>A Website Section is now being formed, headed by Kevin O'Brien.

>Anyone who wants to participate in the planning of the site,

>please contact him through fldax@aol.com.

What sort of things do you want? Some guide to the sort of direction would be an idea.

>And others -- let's get some preliminary discussion going.

>What obvious things are we missing on this list -- what

>not-so-obvious ones?

Well, from my point of view one area (which can reach kids as well as adults) is music. There are some songs based on his works (ones I think of specifically are "The Green Hills of Earth" and Valerie Housden's "Requiem"), and I've heard that his 'extra' verse to the "Navy Hymn" ("Eternal Father, Strong to Save") has found its way into some hymnbooks. Publicising those and others would help.

While on the subject of space, supporting the space programme (in whatever form one's country has it) would meet with his approval I think.

Chris C

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: keris remNOreSPAM@keris.demon.co.uk.invalid

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 7:03 AM

Message-id: <0c776f7c.5cd35d14@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com>

keris wrote:

>And in general that 'good' SF is kept in stock (for whatever

>value of 'good', but there is so much trash (Stirgeon's Law

ERROR: Eyeball (Mk 1 pl 15) failure!

OK, so 'i' is next to 'u'[1], but that was a particularly glaring one. I do know the correct spelling of Theodore Sturgeon's name...

[1] Correct English would have it as "I /am/ next to you"...

>their own copies of the books at appropraite ages would be

Helleshin! What was I on, and can I get some more of it?

Apologies...

Chris C

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: Ward Griffiths wdg3rd@home.com

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 6:38 AM

Message-id: <3993C942.C11695BE@home.com>

BPRAL22169 wrote:

>

> This upcoming meeting of the Heinlein Readers' Group, we'll be talking about

> the Heinlein Society, which is now being formed. Ini fact, by that time we may

> be able to announce the incorporation. We'd like to get some discussion going

> among all interested parties about the exact shape of the Society.

>

> The motto of the Society is "Pay It Forward." Since we can never pay him back,

> we can do what he asked of those he helped: pay it forward.

>

> So: let's talk. What can we do -- what should we be doing to pay it forward.

> Here are a few of the suggestions that have been made so far, to get the

> discussion going:

>

> 1. Library outreach program -- make sure that Heinleins books -- particularly

> the juveniles -- are kept in libraries and available for circulation.

>

> 2. Related to #1 -- encourage kids to read the books, early and often!

Key item -- getting those books back into the kids' section of the libraries, not the case in any library I've checked out for at least ten years. (I guess somebody realized that the books were corrupting young people into thinking outside the approved lines).

I'll try to attend this time, even though it means I have to use my wife's computer with its unpleasant operating system. But I haven't found a functional AIM client for Linux (not that I've spent a lot of time looking, to be honest).

--

Ward Griffiths wdg3rd@home.com http://members.home.net/wdg3rd/

My only demonstrable talents were for fucking off and having fun -- it was time I started playing to my strengths.

Jake Stonebender, _Callahan's Key_ by Spider Robinson

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: Gaeltach gaeltach@fan.net.au

Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2000 7:04 AM

Message-id: <399407D0.9E861708@fan.net.au>

BPRAL22169 wrote:

> And others -- let's get some preliminary discussion going. What obvious things

> are we missing on this list -- what not-so-obvious ones? How should we go

> about getting kids to read the juveniles, for example. Let's start the

> discussion on the message boards so we'll be well prepared to discuss the

> subject on the 17th and 19th.

>

> Bill

Maybe something can be done for cats? I guess there are already lots of "cat societies", but RAH certainly had a strong affection for the felines.

In the same vein (and perhaps more importantly) would it be worthwhile considering orphans and/or orphanages to be benefactors in some way? I'm thinking of RAH's compassion for Thorby here, as displayed by the character Baslim. Also, "Orphans of the Sky" has a nice sound to it for some kind of program to help these young kids read books and give them the freedom to imagine, and think for themselves.

Encouraging more writers through Heinlein's rules for writing?

I don't know if it has been suggested before (probably has), but I like the idea of a statue. Heinlein seemed to approve of plaques and commemorations of noble and worthwile deeds. I'm thinking of the picture on the cover of "Grumbles" as a good starting point. But is this within the scope of the Heinlein Society?

Sean

gaeltach@fan.net.au

***************

.... and now for something completely different:

Hard RAH.

***************

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "magichands" magichands@magichands1.fsnet.co.uk

Date: Sun, Aug 13, 2000 8:58 AM

Message-id: <8n6gda$c4n$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>

my cat Petronius agrees with a definite blurt, even his vet didn't realise where his name came from until I lent him a copy of the door into summer. so Pete when he got his nose out of his ginger ale also asked when and where is the meeting us or UK as this cat don't like flying in 747's for no'one,.

magichands

p.s. new to the newsgroup but this is fun

Gaeltach wrote in message news:399407D0.9E861708@fan.net.au...

>

>

> BPRAL22169 wrote:

>

>

>

>> And others -- let's get some preliminary discussion going. What obvious things

>> are we missing on this list -- what not-so-obvious ones? How should we go

>> about getting kids to read the juveniles, for example. Let's start the

>> discussion on the message boards so we'll be well prepared to discuss the

>> subject on the 17th and 19th.

>>

>> Bill

>

> Maybe something can be done for cats? I guess there are already lots of "cat

> societies", but RAH certainly had a strong affection for the felines.

>

> In the same vein (and perhaps more importantly) would it be worthwhile considering

> orphans and/or orphanages to be benefactors in some way? I'm thinking of RAH's

> compassion for Thorby here, as displayed by the character Baslim. Also, "Orphans of

> the Sky" has a nice sound to it for some kind of program to help these young kids

> read books and give them the freedom to imagine, and think for themselves.

>

> Encouraging more writers through Heinlein's rules for writing?

>

> I don't know if it has been suggested before (probably has), but I like the idea of

> a statue. Heinlein seemed to approve of plaques and commemorations of noble and

> worthwile deeds. I'm thinking of the picture on the cover of "Grumbles" as a good

> starting point. But is this within the scope of the Heinlein Society?

>

> Sean

> gaeltach@fan.net.au

> ***************

> .... and now for something completely different:

>

> Hard RAH.

> ***************

>

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Jani" jani@ossar.freeuk.com

Date: Sun, Aug 13, 2000 10:57 AM

Message-id: <oBl5.4239$7v2.579180@nnrp3.clara.net>

magichands <magichands@magichands1.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message news:8n6gda$c4n$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

p.s. new to the newsgroup but this is fun

Welcome! Grab a seat at the bar, name your poison, and keep a wary eye out for the more, er, assertive members of the group. You picked a good time to de-lurk, by the way - the troll count appears to be zero at present :)

Jani

PS which part of the UK are you in?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[troll count OT posts snipped]

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "magichands" magichands@magichands1.fsnet.co.uk

Date: Sun, Aug 13, 2000 5:03 PM

Message-id: <8n7cqo$h2c$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

Jani wrote in message news:%oBl5.4239$7v2.579180@nnrp3.clara.net...

>

> magichands wrote in message

> news:8n6gda$c4n$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

>>

>> p.s. new to the newsgroup but this is fun

>

> Welcome! Grab a seat at the bar, name your poison, and keep a wary eye out

> for the more, er, assertive members of the group. You picked a good time to

> de-lurk, by the way - the troll count appears to be zero at present :)

>

> Jani

> PS which part of the UK are you in?

>

>

thanxs for the welcome and petronius would like to say "Waarrrh" cause I've just disturbed him (petronius = Pete, my cat who also like's to look for the door into summer), we reside in north Wales Llandudno to be precise but neither of us is welsh so we are immigrants here but don't tell the black hat's.

where abouts do you come from I see the freeuk handle on your address another fan from the uk I hope.

how big's your collection cause I'm missing a couple the ex trashed some when she left HORROR.

what do you mean assertive members of the group what am I getting into (he panics)

magichands

p.s. Pete says he'll handle any black hats you care to throw his way !!!!!! and he'll win claws n'all

p.p.s. do you icq? my numbers 85065119

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: keris remNOreSPAM@keris.demon.co.uk.invalid

Date: Mon, Aug 14, 2000 1:11 AM

Message-id: <059ac1bc.ca5578fc@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com>

"magichands" wrote:

>thanxs for the welcome and petronius would like to say

>"Waarrrh" cause I've just disturbed him (petronius = Pete, my

>cat who also like's to look for the door into summer), we

>reside in north Wales Llandudno to be precise but neither of us

>is welsh so we are immigrants here but don't tell the black

>hat's.

Croeso! ('Welcome!' since you're a Saes - or have you picked up enough Cymraeg?) You're on my route to my mother's place, just up from Portmadog.

I'm way over in Buckinghamshire, myself...

>where abouts do you come from I see the freeuk handle

>on your address another fan from the uk I hope. how big's your

>collection cause I'm missing a couple the ex trashed some when

>she left HORROR. what do you mean assertive members of the

>group what am I getting into (he panics)

Read the group and see <g>. There are some of us who talk more than others, and some who don't know when to stop (I couldn't be talking about myself, of course (ducks heavy objects from Jane and Jani) <g>). The bark's worse than the bite though in most cases...

>p.s. Pete says he'll handle any black hats you care to throw

>his way !!!!!! and he'll win claws n'all p.p.s. do you icq? my

>numbers 85065119

It seems that the preferred method here is via AOL's (spit!) Instant Messager thing. Is ICQ anoter of theirs? I've only just got IRC working on Linux...

Chris C

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Jani" jani@ossar.freeuk.com

Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2000 1:43 AM

Message-id:

keris wrote in message news:059ac1bc.ca5578fc@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com...

You're on my route to my mother's place, just

> up from Portmadog.

Do you go to your mum's often, Chris? Shropshire is not that far from Wales (BIG HINT :)

Jani

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: prnzofthvs1@aol.comspamkill (Steve)

Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2000 1:55 AM

Message-id: <20000816045554.05977.00000161@ng-bd1.aol.com>

Jani said:

>Do you go to your mum's often, Chris? Shropshire is not that far from Wales

>(BIG HINT :)

Damn! Now I have to be envious of Chris!

Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "Jani" jani@ossar.freeuk.com

Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2000 1:48 AM

Message-id:

magichands wrote in message news:8n7cqo$h2c$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...

> where abouts do you come from I see the freeuk handle on your address North Shropshire, at the moment.

> how big's your collection cause I'm missing a couple the ex trashed some

> when she left HORROR.

Exes have a habit of doing that, don't they? My local 2H bookstore has an excellent Heinlein section - what do you need?

> p.p.s. do you icq? my numbers 85065119

I'm on AIM (and I talk enough there; if I had ICQ as well I'd never get away from the computer! <g>)

Jani

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: ddavitt ddavitt@netcom.ca

Date: Sun, Aug 13, 2000 2:41 PM

Message-id: <3997160F.30F3CCCD@netcom.ca>

magichands wrote:

> my cat Petronius agrees with a definite blurt, even his vet didn't realise

> where his name came from until I lent him a copy of the door into summer. so

> Pete when he got his nose out of his ginger ale also asked when and where is

> the meeting us or UK as this cat don't like flying in 747's for no'one,.

>

> magichands

>

>

Welcome to the group. The meeting is ....nowhere as such. It's on the AOL Instant Messenger chats; AIM for short. First one ( which probably won't suit you if you're in the UK) is Thursday, starts 9.00 pm EST; 2.00 am Friday for you. The next is on Saturday at 5.00 pm EST; 10.00 pm for you which is a little better time wise.

If you want to join the chats you need to download AIM if you don't have it already and either set up a shortcut to the room or give David Silver ( AGplusone@aol.com) your AIM name so he can invite you in. I suggest you follow this link which explains it all in detail;

http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html

Jane

PS; if it's no trouble, please could you post under rather than over the snipped quoted stuff? Makes it much easier to read :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: "magichands" magichands@magichands1.fsnet.co.uk

Date: Sun, Aug 13, 2000 5:09 PM

Message-id: <8n7d5a$p65$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>

ddavitt wrote in message news:3997160F.30F3CCCD@netcom.ca...

> magichands wrote:

>

>> my cat Petronius agrees with a definite blurt, even his vet didn't realise

>> where his name came from until I lent him a copy of the door into summer. so

>> Pete when he got his nose out of his ginger ale also asked when and where is

>> the meeting us or UK as this cat don't like flying in 747's for no'one,.

>>

>> magichands

>>

>>

>

> Welcome to the group. The meeting is ....nowhere as such. It's on the AOL

> Instant Messenger chats; AIM for short. First one ( which probably won't suit

> you if you're in the UK) is Thursday, starts 9.00 pm EST; 2.00 am Friday for

> you. The next is on Saturday at 5.00 pm EST; 10.00 pm for you which is a little

> better time wise.

>

> If you want to join the chats you need to download AIM if you don't have it

> already and either set up a shortcut to the room or give David Silver (

> AGplusone@aol.com) your AIM name so he can invite you in. I suggest you follow

> this link which explains it all in detail;

> http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html

>

>

> Jane

> PS; if it's no trouble, please could you post under rather than over the snipped

> quoted stuff? Makes it much easier to read :-)

>

okay Jane and I'll try to be there nowt else happening Friday so plenty of coffee and I hope I'll be there. go easy on me though or I'll set Pete on you .

thanks for the reply to my msg !!

magichands

(just to confuse things my name's Pete and my cat petronius is also Pete for short only cause the vets receptionist can't /won't spell petronius)

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Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: merfilly8@aol.com (Stephanie Vickers)

Date: Sun, Aug 13, 2000 9:19 AM

Message-id: <20000813121905.25678.00000183@ng-fl1.aol.com>

>5. Academic -- get Heinlein accepted in American Lit studies instead of only

>pop culture/genre studies.

>

Get permission from Mrs. Heinlein to do studies/study plans of some of the books. If you're going to want them to teach this, you're going to have to show it is worth teaching. Granted, just looking at American lit with its moldy "classics", I was offended that the major writing periods of "pulp fiction" had been completely ignored. Not just sci-fi pulps and serials, but the mystery genre too.

>1. Library outreach program -- make sure that Heinleins books --

>particularly

>the juveniles -- are kept in libraries and available for circulation.

This one is most difficult in small, underfunded libraries. I donated a lot of sci fi to my local library before I went army. Came back to find most of the titles gone, due to a new organization of the system.

>2. Related to #1 -- encourage kids to read the books, early and often!

This one starts in the home. Children need to be shown reading is great.

Filly

http://hometown.aol.com/merfilly8/myhomepage

"Make it a rule of life never to regret and never look back.

We all live in suspense, from day to day, from hour to hour;

in other words, we are the hero of our own story."

--Mary McCarthy

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: RAM-AIM Meeting Notice 8/17, 19 - Heinlein Society

From: bpral22169@aol.com (BPRAL22169)

Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2000 10:13 PM

Message-id: <20000817011337.23178.00000689@ng-me1.aol.com>

AIM Heinlein Readers Group Meeting

August 17 and 19, 2000

Topic: The Heinlein Society: Let's talk about the goals and activities the Society should be engaged in.

This is a more-or-less free-form discussion of what the Heinlein Society (in formation) should be doing. As we are in the process of setting up the organization, you are cordially invited to put in your 3500 cents (adjusted for inflation) and discuss what we can do to pay Heinlein's legacy forward.

There has been an active thread of suggestions and discussion on alt.fan.heinlein, and you are invited to look at those as basic idea-generating material. Typically, the messages are echoed to the transcript of the first chatlog, so you will have a second shot at them.

(Our Fearless Leader, AGPlusOne, is having difficulty with his ISP, so I will be there to get things rolling at 6:30 p.m. PDT on Thursday and 2:00 p.m. PDT on Saturday. AGPlusOne will show up when and as he is able to make it.)

Look forward to seeing you there!

Bill

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Heinlein society, request for help, bit long

Subject: Heinlein society, request for help, bit long

From: "Jani" jani@ossar.freeuk.com

Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2000 2:50 PM

Message-id:

This is going to be a bit long, please bear with me.

What I'm trying to do, devolving from BillP's posts and conversations with labert, is put together a teachers' resource pack based on Heinlein material. The concept comes from Personal and Social Education, which is a non-exam course in Brit schools, loosely similar to the H&MP classes in ST.

You don't have to pass it, but it's one of the few classes where they give you a topic and everyone runs with it. How well it's managed depends very much on the teacher and the resource material. labert says you have nothing comparable in the US, and therefore this would be slotted into one of the Literature courses.

Now, we all know that RAH is full of quotes <g> rather like Shakespeare is full of quotes. What I want is "suitable* quotes, not just from the Notebooks, which would act as starting-ponts for discussion, and if possible further references (whether in the same novel/story or other RAH works).

There are lots of reasons why I think this is important. One, RAH said a lot about humans which is, very often, cross-cultural. He was an excellent observer and commentator. Two, that kind of commentary, that kind of basic common-sense is missing, IMO, in the education system. Three, he was (I am assured) a damn good rocket-scientist. If I had been pointed towards RAH in my youth, I might not be the science and maths dumbo I am today.

I'm after start-off quotes and further reading on these themes, and suggestions for classroom debate and/or written essays. Or, indeed, anything else anyone would like to suggest.

Personal responsibility (I'm looking at ST H&MP, the Wiccan rede, US Libertarianism)

Marriage (TeFL et al, Christian v Pagan concepts of fidelity, LDS, Islam)

Patriotism and jingoism (most of the current threads!)

The justice system (Mostly NotB, the WM3, current arguments about Eire, the validity of DNA testing, does "balancing" equate to "eye for an eye", are all lawyers liars, etc)

Why are we here? (Is Job *right*?)

Other Ways Than Ours. Which, I think, will probably be the title of the package, since it sums up most of the above :)

This is NOT an invitation for newbies to flame Jani - please pick another thread for that. I want help, input, and constructive criticism. Dammit, you all know my opinion of the education system! Give me a chance to improve the lot of kids? I'm there!

Jani

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Heinlein society, request for help, bit long

From: "FREEMAN" adamcfreeman@hotmail.com

Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2000 6:01 PM

Message-id:

Jani -

My personal favorite, and its damn near a mantra is from TMIAHM. "I am free because I realize that I alone am responsible for everything I do." Warning: this may be paraphrased due to the fact that I don't have a copy in front of me. Good Luck!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Heinlein society, request for help, bit long

From: Art Russell artrussell@mindspring.com

Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2000 6:31 AM

Message-id:

Jani,

Here's my not too complete list of quotations. Don't ask why I choose these particular quotations. They reflect the books that I read to decompress as I complete my doctorate... Hope they help get your project started, although I've not sorted them to meet your specific needs. Simply a data dump on my part.

Cheers,

Art

"Debts are paid. Debts are always paid." - Captain Krausa; Citizen of the Galaxy

"The way to find justice is to deal fairly with other people and not worry about how they deal with you" - Thorby; Citizen of the Galaxy

"A wise man could not be insulted, since truth could not insult and untruth was not worthy of notice." - Balsim the Cripple; Citizen of the Galaxy

"Anythinq free costs twice as much in lonq run or turns out worthless" - Mannie; TMIAHM

"A managed democracy is a wonderful thing, ... for the managers... and its greatest strength is a 'free press' when 'free' is defined as 'responsible' and the managers define what is 'irresponsible.'" - Professor Bernardo de la Paz; TMIAHM

"When faced with a problem you do not understand, do any part you do understand, then look at it again." - Professor Bernardo de la Paz; TMIAHM

"The power to tax, once conceded, has no limits; it contains until it destroys." - Professor Bernardo de la Paz; TMIAHM

"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" - TMIAHM

"Most things are right or wrong only in their backgrounds; few things are good or evil in themselves. But things that are right or wrong according to their culture, really are so." - Citizen of the Galaxy

"if you don't understand it and the laws under which it will be executed, then don't sign it! - no matter how much profit may appear to be in store. Too lazy and too eager can ruin a trader." - Grandmother; Citizen of the Galaxy

"It made a difference which side of the Plaza you saw a thing from...and if you didn't have status, you weren't listened to." Thorby; Citizen of the Galaxy

"All research pays off. Your stockholders won't loose." Wing Marshall "Smith"; Citizen of the Galaxy

"Grandmother used to say never to buy too many eggs for your basket" Thorby; Citizen of the Galaxy

"A man can't run out on responsibility." Thorby; Citizen of the Galaxy

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Heinlein society, request for help, bit long

From: "Michael Davis" mdavis2@cox.rr.com

Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2000 6:39 PM

Message-id:

How about a topic similar to "dealing with the real world"

I'd like to propose including:

1. TANSTAAFL - RAH but source unknown

2. Or the one that hangs on my office wall: "Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet you can't win." - Lazarus Long from TEFL

Mike Davis

--------------- Here Endeth The Pre-Discussion Postings-----------------

Return to Beginning>

-------------------- The Discussion Begins -----------------------------

You have just entered room "Heinlein Readers Group chat."

Skansiewic has entered the room.

Skansiewic: hello

AGplusone has entered the room.

AGplusone: Test

ddavitt has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hi everyone

AGplusone: Hi, Jane ...

AGplusone: On an IM to a couple others ...

ddavitt: okay

AGplusone: Had a miserable week. A bunch of power outages resulted in my software going south ... reinstalled everything last night.

AGplusone: And lost my buddy list, of course. Do you see anyone on?

ddavitt: hang on

ddavitt: Reilloc, GHMyst, Asty

SAcademy has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hi SA

SAcademy: Good evening.

ddavitt: Same thing happened to me remember...but I don't know why. Got it back using the logs

ddavitt: Who is Skansiewic?

SAcademy: No idea

ddavitt: Well, hello if you're here...

geeairmoe2 has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hi Will

AGplusone: I have no clue either ... IMs say he's signed off. Hi, Will, welcome

geeairmoe2: Hi Jane, David, everyone.

SAcademy: Good evening

ddavitt: Got my Heinlein journal today

SAcademy: Mine came Tuesday.

ddavitt: looking forward to reading it but not had time since Eleanor went to bed.

AGplusone: Bill should be here in about 20 minutes or so ... I'm missing my buddy list so I'm using IMs to haul people into the room.

ddavitt: impossible to concentrate whilst she's up and about :-)

ddavitt: They should be able to get in with the desktop icon shouldn't they?

SAcademy: How old is she?

AGplusone: I got mine day before yesterday ... like the chat group review of Troopers the movie, Jane?

ddavitt: That's how I do it now...seems to work fine

geeairmoe2: Received mine yesterday, along with all the back issues.

ddavitt: Yes but as I say, only had time to flick through...too many interruptions

geeairmoe2: I'm kind of on info overload at the moment.

ddavitt: I want to do another article before the baby arrives; just emailed Bill about it

SAcademy: Me, too. Always

ddavitt: Hoping to compare the two versions of Red Planet; amazing how many differences there are

ddavitt: Has anyone done that already?

Merfilly8 has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hi Filly

Merfilly8: hello all

SAcademy: What two versions of Red Planet?

AGplusone: Hi, Stephenie

ddavitt: The original and the revised one that came out a few years back

ddavitt: Like Puppet masters, the revisions put a whole new slant on some things

Merfilly8: Boy did I get excited seeing a movie called "Red Planet"...til I found out it was not Mr. Heinlein's

AGplusone: The nice part about having a copy of Grumbles is the comparison is right there in major part

SAcademy: Oh, it just took out the guns and some other things.

ddavitt: fadcinating to read side by side

geeairmoe2: Hello, Filly. I'm still chuckling over that email about the writing assignment.

ddavitt: The characters of the boys change a lot too

AGplusone: Everyone notice Jani's post ... the recent one?

Merfilly8: that one had me rolling on the floor, Will

ddavitt: No; grumbles is tip of the iceberg believe me

ddavitt: Yes; looks interesting David

Merfilly8: I'm behind on newsgroup posts..been working hard

AGplusone: I like the fact she's enlisted labert to help her with that project ...

ddavitt: Yes, I was in a group chat with them yesterday and we were discussing the project

Patricia A M 555 has entered the room.

AGplusone: Hi, Trish ... you know everyone?

Patricia A M 555: nope

ddavitt: Hi Trish, I'm Jane

Merfilly8: Nice to meet you, I'm Filly

Merfilly8: or Steph if needed

Patricia A M 555: Hullo!

geeairmoe2: Hello, trish. I'm Will, or Gee, when we have more than one Will in the room.

AGplusone: And "SA" is our resident sceptic ...

Patricia A M 555: ::grin:: every group needs one!

SAcademy: Hello, Trish. I have a niece of that name

ddavitt: And maikosh the ghost in the machine....

Merfilly8: Maikosh is our resident ghost scripter :)

ddavitt: Snap!

Merfilly8: lol

Patricia A M 555: ::chuckle::

Patricia A M 555: I forgot, what's the topic of the day?

AGplusone: We're chatting generally about anything while waiting for the room to fill up ... but the meeting tonight's about forming The Heinlein Society, and we're waiting for Bill (BPRAL) to show up but I can perhaps start stuff a little ...

ddavitt: GA

AGplusone: I understand that they're in process of incorporating it as a non-profit educational charity ....

Patricia A M 555: oh, really? interesting

AGplusone: and that incorporation will be accomplished in a short time ...

SAcademy: Art told me he'd do it this week.

GHMyst has entered the room.

GHMyst: Greetings, all

ddavitt: Hi there

AGplusone: Being a non-profit educational charity allows it to do a large number of things ... but formalities have to be observed ...

SAcademy: Laurie is away this week,

Dehede011 has entered the room.

AGplusone: Hi, Ron, welcome ...

SAcademy: So she can't be here. Unless her cousin has a computer--unlike ly

Dehede011: Evenin' folks.

ddavitt: Hi!

AGplusone: Lucky Laurie, on a cruise to Alaska ...

SAcademy: Hello, Ron

Patricia A M 555: ohhhh, I've wanted to do that for years!

Dehede011: Hi, SA..., Hi AG

SAcademy: No, she went to Port Townsend to visit a cousin. Cruise is soon.

AGplusone: Hi, Ed. So, anyway, the idea as I understand it is to set up a bunch of committees and focus each one in an area of interest ... planning, suggesting things to do ... or that could be done.

DenvToday has entered the room.

ddavitt: Net based or rl?

DenvToday: Evening everybody.

ddavitt: Hi!

GHMyst: hello

AGplusone: And what Bill and the board will be asking is various areas of interest ... for example, the area of children's education Jani's post today is exploring.

AGplusone: Hi,

Denv ... talking about the setting up of The Heinlein Society as a 501(c)(3)

DenvToday: Is that a non-profit group?

AGplusone: and setting up idea-focused committees under the Board to explore various ideas. Yes.

AGplusone: No-profit eleeomonsynary

AGplusone: educational

Lucylou98 has entered the room.

DenvToday: What are the advantages of setting it up as a non-profit?

DenvToday: Hello Lucy.

Lucylou98: am i here?

Dehede011: Hi, LL

ddavitt: Hi Lucy

Lucylou98: hi filks

geeairmoe2: What newsgroup has these discussions?

AGplusone: If I could remember where the "e's" go I'd be dangerous ...

DenvToday: lol Dave

AGplusone: AFH, Will ...

Lucylou98: brb

GHMyst: in that group there always appears to be

AGplusone: The Board asked me to post something detailed on SFF couple days ago, but I've been off-line, so I'll get it up tomorrow

SAcademy: We're going to try to reach a lot of newsgroups, but Tawn has been very busy

GHMyst: a lot of chaf and very little wheat

geeairmoe2: Thanks. I don't get to them as much as I'd like to.

Skansiewic has left the room.

AGplusone: There is, but some grain is starting to appear, Ed ...

ddavitt: It can be very good....

ddavitt: Just drifts sometimes

AGplusone: and some interesting suggestions ...

ddavitt: too many personalities

AGplusone: for what "The Heinlein Society" might do ...

AGplusone: So the idea tonight is to kick around just that notion: "What The Heinlein Society" might do ... "

SAcademy: The motto is "Pay it Forward."

DenvToday: How about starting the Howard Families Foundation? lol

Merfilly8: to breed for brains rather than age

Merfilly8: lol

Lucylou98: Great motto, BTW

AGplusone: There are 'societies' or 'guilds' or call them whatever they call themselves that do exist for authors such as Wells, Twain, Shaw, others ... that do more than simply make up a nice literary page ....

DenvToday: Brains?? Count me out.

AGplusone: For example, there's a Shaw group that produces his plays in a festival each year ...

Merfilly8: I just ran into one foundation...Hubbard's

ddavitt: Heinlein readings maybe?

Merfilly8: I qualified to apply for a scholarship thru them

AGplusone: A group might do that, and use the funds it raised to provide scholarships for children ...

DenvToday: I've often wondered why there aren't any computer games bases on RAH's work....

AGplusone: or you guess what an educational charity might produce ...

Lucylou98: Is this font better?

GHMyst: scholarships of some form stil sounds

SAcademy: There was a ST game.

GHMyst: like agod idea

ddavitt: Looks the same Lucy

DenvToday: Really? How old is the game, SA?

SAcademy: Some years ago. And there have been others, too

DenvToday: I never knew that. Thanks.

SAcademy: Welcome.

Dehede011: I have the ST game

AGplusone: so long as no individual 'benefits' for something that he doesn't work for ... i.e., a person can provide legitimate services to a charity ... or receive an indirect benefit ... that's okay ... the charity can do whatever it wills, except it cannot be a shell for a profit making enterprise.

AGplusone: The literary part would of course be a large part of a Heinlein Society, but there are many other things that could be done ...

ddavitt: have to cut the cloth to suit the budget though; some of the suggestions would be expensive

DenvToday: Dave, perhaps the guild or foundation (or whatever we call it) could promote RAH's work in schools and other organizations, such as the Boy Scouts. As you know all know, RAH wrote for Boy's Life.

SAcademy: Yes, but contributions would be allowed?

Dehede011: Would the Heinlein Society take over this chat?

Merfilly8: I'm interested in helping get the books into educational forums

ddavitt: plus the problem of where they would be applied; US is big, even if scholarships and such were limited to that country

AGplusone: Again ... readings .... or creation of the "H&MP" sort of outlines for students Jani suggests in her recent post ...

GHMyst: something to keep the appreciation of Heinlein's works from gradually fading away

AGplusone: No, this is separate ... some of us might belong to it, and of course it would be a feeder into the Society ...

Dehede011: That for me AG

ddavitt: I suppose the big thing is to keep the books both in print and on library shelves

AGplusone: But you start small and somewhere, Jane ... even a few hundred dollars is something to a student.

ddavitt: Without the books being readily available, all else falters

SAcademy: Right, Jane.

GHMyst: agreed

DenvToday: David, Baen and Tor currently carry the RAH catalogue, correct?

Lucylou98: Amen, AG

SAcademy: And to continue his blood drives.

ddavitt: I bought a hardcover To Sail in a library sale last week....part of me was sad to see it there....

Dehede011: If the books are to be available does that not suggest that we are watchful for piracy?

DenvToday: I can understand that, dd.

BPRAL22169 has entered the room.

Lucylou98: Would be nice if you gave blood, you got a Heinlein novel.

DenvToday: Hi Bpral.

GHMyst: hey bill

BPRAL22169: Hello, all.

Dehede011: hi Bill

Lucylou98: Hi, BPRAL

BPRAL22169: Hey - Ed, has the Journal arrived yet?

ddavitt: The Heinlein book swap is a good starting point; that could be expanded

GHMyst: not yet. when did you mail?

AGplusone: Someone suggested a while's back that a compendium or lexicon of RAH's works would be useful .... actually, what Jani is proposing is a lexicon of thought to provide an outline for teachers to use as a sort of "H&MP" class ....

ddavitt: Hi bill

BPRAL22169: Saturday last. Jane, has yours arrived yet? The locals have gotten theirs already.

Dehede011: You said my label was on top of the pile. Mine came in.

AGplusone: And we could work on something like that ... a volume at a time ...

ddavitt: A lot of the quotations could spark some good clasroom discussion

AGplusone: Or a volume a person ...

BPRAL22169: So it's spreading its way across the country.

ddavitt: Yes, today thanks

BPRAL22169: I liked Jani's idea very much.

AGplusone: It ties in with something that's been proposed before ... an outline for 'home-study' classes ....

Dehede011: I especially liked Dave's article.

BPRAL22169: Dve, you have a fan.

ddavitt: She is/was a teacher which gives her valuable insight into what's going on in the classrooms

AGplusone: Pfftttt! Notice Bill put that article in BIG type to hide how short it was ....

DenvToday: David, that's an idea. There are over one million home-schooled children in the U.S. alone.

ddavitt: Modesty becomes you david :-)

AGplusone: I loved LeGere's and Ed's articles ...

Dehede011: and I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me

ddavitt: Not so common in the UK

AGplusone: "Internet 101 for Dummies"

Lucylou98: What would the outline for home schooling be like?

Dehede011: Denv. good idea. RAH's philosophy and home schooling sort of tie together.

Lucylou98: Just a suggested reading and discussion list?

DenvToday: Very true.

BPRAL22169: That topic kind of falls into Phillip Owenby's area, doesn't it?

AGplusone: That's the point, Lucy ... we don't exactly know ... perhaps we'd create it as a group, or a subgroup of the society ...

ddavitt: What age does h/s go up to? Is there a cut off poiint?

Patricia A M 555: The only problem I see with that, is that the majority of home schooled children are pulled out to include religious education. RAH's acceptance of... lifestyles, shall we say, isn't likely to go over well.

AGplusone: And you could have A-level, B-level, C-level outline versions ....

Lucylou98: Great idea

ddavitt: The juveniles alone maybe?

AGplusone: So you use just the 'juveniles' alone ...

Dehede011: If you think about it we are all home schooled. It is a case of how early it starts.

DenvToday: Pat, perhaps. But that wouldn't apply to the juveniles. Anything before SIASL wouldn't be a problem.

Merfilly8: home school thru eight if by a non-teacher, all the way up if by a teacher

Patricia A M 555: That's a possibility, of course, if the parents haven't read the adult books.

BPRAL22169: Headed by the quote about how Prof kept barely adhead of Manny. For the parents.

AGplusone: And C-level references into the hairy adult stuff for those who wish it ....

Lucylou98: Ethcs is certainly a course that could be taught with his books.

ddavitt: True....

BPRAL22169: I think a lot of people could use a primer on how to educate yourself.

ddavitt: So after 8 they have to go to school?

BPRAL22169: themselves.

AGplusone: Owensby's dissertation talks a lot about adult education of the sort that existed preWW2 ...

Dehede011: brb

Merfilly8: unless the parent/educater gets certified, Jane

DenvToday: One idea: Reconciling today's actual technology with the technology RAH envisioned.

Merfilly8: I've checked, I wish to home school our girls

ddavitt: Isn't 7 too yoiung for Heinlein?

DenvToday: For instance, Starman Jones. A two-dollar calculator would have negated the entire novel.

ddavitt: Apart from those with certified parents?

Merfilly8: eighth grade, or year in school

AGplusone: The sliderule, analogue stuff is like reading Jules Verne about submarines ... kids figure out it's fiction and substitute digital computers in their minds I think ....

ddavitt: Oh...eight GRADE, sorry....

Merfilly8: my fault

AGplusone: the 'dated' stuff is easy to teach around ...

ddavitt: The novel has way more to it than the tech IMO

Dehede011: back

AGplusone: Anyway, Bill ... I started the ball rolling with my vague understandings of where you're going ... so why don't you take over with your agenda ...

Dehede011: Right Jane

DenvToday: Absolutely, dd. It's just background. His characters, ideas, sense of values make the novels.

AGplusone: "agenda" .... ....

BPRAL22169: I don't really have an "agenda" for this meeting -- I'm interested in hearing what other people have to say. But I've got a few balls to roll if we run out of steam.

ddavitt: Besides, it's an alternate ficton; who's to say calculators had to get invented?

DenvToday: Good point!

BPRAL22169: How about we talk to Owenby about Jani's project -- recruit a cell or section for Education.

Merfilly8: One thing I'd like to see, not just in American literature, is recognition of Sci-Fi as a whole

AGplusone: Again, just a mention ... the Shaw non-profit produces fund raising plays and creates a scholarship fund .... which a 501(c)(3) can do ... Heinlein readings or perhaps the TV scripts is something way down the line that we might look at ....

SAcademy: You will run into a hitch--every state has different requirements!

BPRAL22169: That's a tall order, Mer -- and SF is kind of accepted as a "poop culture" study.

ddavitt: That might be a serendipitous side effect of this

DenvToday: I agree, Mer.

Lucylou98: I would love to see that happen Mer.

Merfilly8: I only studied The Invisible Man as part of Lit, and no other, though Verne made the list of alternates, as did Tolkien for Fantasy

AGplusone: It's like LeGere's article suggests ... Twain was considered a 'humorist' unlikely to survive beyond "The Jumping Frog" 100 years ago ....

ddavitt: history will judge...

BPRAL22169: Surprised they didn't give you anyof Poe's or hawthorne's sf.

Lucylou98: Never could figure out why it's sort of looked down on. Never even touched upon in Lit. classes.

Merfilly8: Poe= bad poetry

ddavitt: Lot of snobbery about most sub genres; romance novels for instance

Lucylou98: Twain wrote some wonderful SF.

AGplusone: I always thought Swift's Guliver was sci-fi

Merfilly8: Hawthorne=witches

Lucylou98: Me too AG

BPRAL22169: Genre writing in general is not respected academically.

ddavitt: Sometimes deserved....

GHMyst: How may teachers of Lit will admit to reading SF?

Merfilly8: We learned Gulliver as political commentary

AGplusone: More 'n more today, I think ...

BPRAL22169: "Rappacini's Daughter" isn't abotu witches.

ddavitt: i remember my Eng Lit teacher groaning when he saw me with LOTR at 13

AGplusone: I learned Stranger as a political commentary ...

Lucylou98: None of mine admitted to reading it.

ddavitt: But don't universities offer degrees in SF nowadays? things have improved

Lucylou98: Some do dd

AGplusone: Yes, DocJames is a Ph.D. in English and his speciality is Sci-fi

ddavitt: So there is hope.

Dehede011: brb

AGplusone: From UCLA no less. When I went there for class of '70 you wouldn't dare mention the genre ...

SAcademy: And Phillip Owenby got his Ph, D., on RAH.

Merfilly8: As I posted, there seems to be a large conspiracy of silence on so-called pulp writers

AGplusone: 30 years makes a big difference ...

ddavitt: There should be a universal standard against which any book can be judged

BPRAL22169: It sounds to me like there is a general consensus that Education is a topic that should be pursued.

Merfilly8: at least as far as recognition goes in the Pub Ed center

GHMyst: so it seems

ddavitt: It's one constant theme in H's books; his worry over falling standards

AGplusone: But some, like Raymond Chandler do surpass the onus ...

AGplusone: For sure, Bill ... education must be a part.

BPRAL22169: As people formally join the Society, we need to be able to offer them a choice of study or action groups -- perhaps on the website each section can have its own page.

ddavitt: Can we afford to diversify too much in the early stages?

Merfilly8: Is there anyway to improve societal manners through our group?

GHMyst: i think that' s a bit abitious

BPRAL22169: I think 8 to 10 ought to be enough to start with.

ddavitt: can't manage it on afh.....

Merfilly8: Some people may wish to help in more than one area

Lucylou98: lol

AGplusone: I think that's an ethics issue ... part of education ...

Merfilly8: I was kidding by the way

BPRAL22169: Yes -- orparticipate in more than one section. I don't see a problem with that.

ddavitt: Would be a nice idea....

ddavitt: How about cats, blood and education?

AGplusone: There's a lot of energy in the group ... 'twould be nice to see some of it directed ....

BPRAL22169: I've got a kind of "meta" question -- how about just general appreciation

AGplusone: Because after a while "been there, done that" becomes a problem for many ...

ddavitt: In what way Bill?

Merfilly8: Cats bllod and education, is this some kind of pagan diversification?

ddavitt: :-)

Merfilly8: Appreciation in the way of encouraging others to enjoy?

BPRAL22169: I mean, a place in the society for people who just want to talk about "wasn't that a neat book" or share reactions or stuff.

Lucylou98: I naturally push RAH novels on youngsters in SF section of bookstores.

ddavitt: Isn't that covered by these chats and the four ng's?

BPRAL22169: Maybe a couple of different levels of readers groups sponsored by the Society.

AGplusone: My Bill says "Cats," "human blood," and "education" is fine ... and he'll provide the human blood if I don't clarify this quickly ... he's about eighteen inches behind my head observing ....

Merfilly8: lol

ddavitt: Give him a stroke from me David

BPRAL22169: What I'm thinking is, not everybody necessarily wants to "do" something, but they like the idea of the Society.

ddavitt: If it doesn't involve losing a finger that is....

AGplusone: scratched the top of his head ...

Merfilly8: I'm not a rare blood type, but I encouraged my buddies who were strenuously to give often

ddavitt: true...not everyone has spare time either

Merfilly8: and I give every chance anyway

GHMyst: spare time -never heard of it

Merfilly8: My spare time is in odd niches, and may grow if things go worse for the company

AGplusone: But some of us do have the time ... for example, a good number of us could go though a volume and pull up the teaching points or 'talking points' Jani's looking for in one of the juveniles ....

BPRAL22169: And on the other end of "frantic" we can look down the road a bit (quite a bit) and see doing a convention or international meeting of THS one day.

ddavitt: I'm not allowed; pregnant and British but I will look into volunteering to help

SAcademy: Rare blood types should be listed in case of need of that type. Should not give too frequently!

Merfilly8: ahh

ddavitt: A Heinlein Con would be fun...

Merfilly8: Most of my buddies were only giving to get out of a day's PT

ddavitt: I am willing to help search for good quotes

Lucylou98: That would be an awesome idea, dd

SAcademy: With the exception of O negative--they need that all the time--it's universal donor.

ddavitt: Though where it would be held i don't know...we are all very scattered

BPRAL22169: It would be fairly easy to organize such an annual meeting in conjunction with the Worldcon -- that way it would automatically rotate around the world

Merfilly8: giving me more reason to vote for charlotte in 2004

BPRAL22169: Or around the US most of the time, anyway, Every 3 years it would be in somebody's area.

AGplusone: And that is where you might schedule a 'fund-raiser' or sorts ....

ddavitt: I could make Toronto...

AGplusone: of sorts

Lucylou98: I'm going to WC next year come heck or high water.

ddavitt: Never been to one...

BPRAL22169: Reminds me to ask -- who is going to ChiCon this year?

GHMyst: or speak at local cons

AGplusone: For example, a production of "The Long Watch" if there were a screenplay which we could obtain permission to use ...

Lucylou98: I was trying to attend, bill...seems I will be stuck in classes:(

Merfilly8: I can handle Heores Con in Charlotte, annually...I'm usually on staff

BPRAL22169: That's another thing -- how about a speaker's bureau for especially high school classes around the country?

GHMyst: good one

AGplusone: Ron Black ... the one who went to San Diego con with you, Bill, might know of something along those lines ....

ddavitt: Libraries might host such talks too

AGplusone: and Brin and others have been pushing that sort of thing I understand ...

AGplusone: "Caine1956" ...

BPRAL22169: Saw Ron Black online last week but couldn't stop to chat.

ddavitt: How about merchandise? Or is that too open to abuse?

AGplusone: Not if it's carefully done, Jane.

GHMyst: what kind??

AGplusone: Charities do it all the time.

AGplusone: The way the honest ones do it is quite legitimate

Merfilly8:

geeairmoe2: What about presenting awards: Heinleinesqe fiction, scholarly RAH .

ddavitt: Jim Gifford's T shirt sort of thing; book marks, mugs, mouse pads etc...

AGplusone: Not a BIG idea, Filly

Merfilly8: j/k

Patricia A M 555: scholarships based on papers written about heinlein and/or his work?

AGplusone: BAD, not BIG (no, I'm serious ... it's a good idea)

ddavitt: Don't want to open a Happy Meal and Lummox fall out mind you :-)

geeairmoe2: Awards to articles writeen about RAH's work.

AGplusone: Like the Patriotism papers that the Masons in California sponsor at the grammar school level.

BPRAL22169: Warning: Rule #1 for the Society is, if you've got a project that costs $$$ you have to figure out how to raise the $$$

ddavitt: Like the cabell prize you mean?

Patricia A M 555: ::grin:: details, details!

BPRAL22169: We can always give them publication in the Journal, too.

AGplusone: they give $50 bonds for each grade's best paper .... 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th ... etc.

ddavitt: That goes back to what I was saying about cutting our cloth...

GHMyst: Publish a collection of works such as appear in (but not restricted to) the Journal

ddavitt: Publish the Journal as a book.....

AGplusone: We could do that at the junior high level ...

Merfilly8: bonds sound even better than scholarships to me

BPRAL22169: I'm going to have velo-bound sets of 1-6 at Chicon.

Lucylou98: Can people who participate here compete for the scholorship money? Would that be against regulations?

BPRAL22169: If the point is to get outsiders active, having members compete for the scholarship would be counterproductive.

ddavitt: Slogan writing contest like HSS...with a small entry fee....

Lucylou98: Yeah

BPRAL22169: (I'm glad I don't have to write all this down, taking notes by hand)

AGplusone: That would be something that would have to be looked at ... for example, the Scottish Rite (a branch of the Masons) give scholarships to Georgetown ... and kids who compete may include members of Masonic youth groups ... but also must include others ... Bill Clinton went to Georgetown on one, btw.

ddavitt: Read Man Who sold for ideas....

BPRAL22169: That's not what I would call a great recmmendation . . .

AGplusone: I beg your pardon?

ddavitt: How to gouge dimes from children

ddavitt: He won't be president much longer; leave him alone! :-)

AGplusone: A poor kid who became President of the U.S.?

AGplusone: The point is: there are patterns for what a charity can do ... all we have to do is look around to see what others have done ... start small, but realize that we can do some of these things ...

Merfilly8: just because we start small doesn't mean we won't reach loftier goals

ddavitt: Is there anyone from one of those charities who could give general advice/ red cross for the blood for instance?

AGplusone: exactly

geeairmoe2: A thing to check is your own junk mail. I get all kinds of solicitations from various groups.

ddavitt: makes sense to work with existing organisations

ddavitt: Not to duplicate effort

AGplusone: Or 'file off the serial numbers' cover with a coat of paint and label it your very own ...

BPRAL22169: Our immediate need is to have something for members to do as they join - ask them if there are any projects they would be particularly interested in joining.

ddavitt: I'd be interested in expanding the book swap and maybe scouring used shops for cheap copies that could then be donated to local schools

BPRAL22169: I suspect we are going toneed a print newsletter as well as a website, too.

GHMyst: yes

ddavitt: Will that be expensive though?

Merfilly8: I have newsletter experience...

AGplusone: e text ... and/or paper ... ?

Merfilly8: it's not that rough on the pocket, especially with home PC help

BPRAL22169: It needn't be terribly expensive. Good, Mer, you will undoubtedly be tapped.

Lucylou98: Maybe some Honor societies at universities would help. They do book drives and such anyway.

AGplusone: Paper and mailing ...

Merfilly8: get bulk rate for it

AGplusone: And a non-profit gets a special mail rate ...

GHMyst: here's something no one has mentioned - dues

geeairmoe2: Non-profits get a special postage rate.

Merfilly8: and with a non-profit organization, there's extra saving in postage

Merfilly8: lol

BPRAL22169: The bulk mail permit is surprisingly difficult to get -- hinges on the 501 c 3 status.

geeairmoe2: great minds ....

ddavitt: Could we get advertisers in there to cut costs? Or does that complicate matters too much?

Merfilly8: it complicates

AGplusone: But if the 501 c 3 is set up properly ...

ddavitt: Fair enough....

BPRAL22169: I meant the USPS often won't issue a bulk mail permit until the 501c3 approval has comethrough -- which can be a time consuming process.

Merfilly8: true

GHMyst: how are contributions to a501 C 3 considered??

Merfilly8: but it is savings down the road

BPRAL22169: They are tax-deductible.

AGplusone: fully tax deductible

GHMyst: very good

ddavitt: We need to spread the word....I don't know how many lurkers there are on the ng but would some of the SF magazines print a paragraph or two?

GHMyst: that might be problem

Dehede011: GHM??

GHMyst: I mean, why would they. It would have to be presented the right way for them to consider it

AGplusone: Don't see why SF mags or e zines wouldn't print notices if they were asked ... what do we risk, they say "no"?

AGplusone: I think we can write something they'd like ...

Merfilly8: most mags have classifieds and announcements in the back now, I thought

BPRAL22169: Gardner Dozois does an annual "what happened in SF" (the Journal didn't make it on the 1999 list)

Dehede011: Does Analog still have a column of fan news?

AGplusone: And we might be able to get them to make a news article of it ...

GHMyst: no, just con listings

AGplusone: if we really put something together than looked worthwhile ...

Lucylou98: Locus does doesn't it?

ddavitt has left the room.

Dehede011: That doesn't seem much of a stretch.

GHMyst: well, we will just have to be extremely creative

Merfilly8: I don't know if this group can be....uncreative :)

GHMyst: point

AGplusone: We have the establishment and dedication of the Heinlein Chair at Annapolis this year coming up ... might be that we could piggy back interest atop that real news.

Lucylou98: Most creative folks on the net right here.:)

Merfilly8: good point David

GHMyst: I didn't hear about that

AGplusone: Or write a letter to the editor of Locus, saying essentially that Heinlein fans inspired by that lovely guesture have established an educational charity to grant scholarships, etc. ....

AGplusone: and see whether the letter gets published ....

Lucylou98: That's what I was thinkng, AG. they are receptive to fan mail it seems.

Dehede011: AG the same goes for Analog and Asimov

Dehede011: the magazines.

AGplusone: 'publicity' is something that charities work all the time .... again, the Masons have a little kit they send out to the officers of every lodge ...

AGplusone: and we can use the simple minded techniques as well

SAcademy: Locus might do a story on it.

BPRAL22169: That sounds to me like a Board-level position

AGplusone: as well as our fevid imaginations ....

Merfilly8: fevid?

AGplusone: it has to be grass roots too, Bill ... otherwise in a volunteer organization, nothing gets done ...

BPRAL22169: That's "Vivid" and "Fevered,"I think.

AGplusone: who can spell

ddavitt has entered the room.

AGplusone: close ...

Merfilly8: wb jane

ddavitt: Sorry about that...froze up on me again...still got my buddy list though

Merfilly8: you missed an Elvis sighting..no that was yesterday

ddavitt: :-)

AGplusone: Trish, you're a teacher ...

AGplusone: have you seen the Jani post?

Patricia A M 555: I'm not sure

Merfilly8:

Patricia A M 555: ::grin::

Patricia A M 555: I think I "heard" people talking about it here, though... trying to encourage getting heinlein used in education?

BPRAL22169: It's slightly more nuanced than that -- she's talking about putting together an "issue pack" for use by teachers, etc.

ddavitt: Some people have started to respond with quotations already

ddavitt: On afh that is

Merfilly8: a teaching plan, so to speak?

Patricia A M 555: ::nod:: could be interesting. some would use it, some wouldn't, of course, same as with anything.

Lucylou98: ok...someone just IMed me and asked, "What's a Hinlein?"

Merfilly8: as in "Introduction to, objective, the meat of the story, etc"

Lucylou98: Heinlein

ddavitt: that's funny....

ddavitt: or sad...

Lucylou98: How does one begin to respond to a question like that?

ddavitt: Who is it? Someone you know/

Merfilly8: A debt held on the offspring of a horse and donkey?

ddavitt: that might affect how you reply

GHMyst: ouch

Lucylou98: Person is unknown to me

Dehede011: We have about twelve here tonight. Would not one of our very early steps be to write letters to Locus, Analog and Asimove announcing that we are forming and informing as to our chat?

GHMyst: tell them to join in

BPRAL22169: That's a mule -- a hind is a rumiant.

AGplusone: Tell 'em to do a hotbot.com search ... he'll get 8,000 replies

BPRAL22169: A deer, I think.

Merfilly8: hinny is the one I was referring to

ddavitt: Amazes me how many on the ng consistently spell it wrong. same of the Asimov group actually...

BPRAL22169: Never heard that one -- a Jenny for a female mule.

Lucylou98: I told him/ her that Heinlein is "The Dean" of science fiction

Merfilly8: An outdated term when they specified if the mare was the donkey or the horse, I believe

AGplusone: I think that's a good idea, Ron.

BPRAL22169: Lern something new every day.

ddavitt: Do you advertise the Journal in any of them Bill?

AGplusone: I'm also trying to help Tawn out by compiling a list of various mail lists, etc., to mail or post the same announcement ...

BPRAL22169: Nope -- it gets reviewed in a few of them, though.

Merfilly8: I received an email from Tawn the other day in response to my query to Laurie, I believe

BPRAL22169: Sorry it's taken so long.

GHMyst: How can one get hold of the Jani Post

Merfilly8: not a prob...I'm patient

BPRAL22169: It's in alt.fan.heinlein

ddavitt: Not to tread on toes but could the society sponsor the journal in any way, or would it be best to keep it separate/

BPRAL22169: under the AIM Meeting thread forthis date.

AGplusone: So any address or website that has a Heinlein or a sci-fi address would be useful. I'll e mail you one right now, Ed.

GHMyst: thanks

Merfilly8: a posting at Geocities main area for Area 51?

Merfilly8: as that's the sci-fi section

BPRAL22169: It seems to be standing on its own at the moment --it's even broken even for the first time this issue.

Merfilly8: congrats Bill

ddavitt: Good news.

BPRAL22169: huzzah

AGplusone: Sure, anything you got, Filly. we're compiling lists

GHMyst: congrats

Merfilly8: I'll see what I can dig up...

ddavitt: That's all the plugs on afh; you've been way too modest about it Bill :-)

BPRAL22169: I did think of offering the Journal as part of the membership benefits, but it would eat up half the cost.

AGplusone: You mean you can spend the check I'm sending you as pure profit, Bill?

BPRAL22169: Well -- It means I can sendout another two or three comp copies . . .

Dehede011: Dave that brings him up to $15 profit.

Dehede011: Unless he is doing Democrat financing.

AGplusone: LOL ... we'll have to have breakfast again ... he reaches for checks really, really well ...

Dehede011: Darn and I turned him down for lunch.

BPRAL22169: I've got to stop this hanging around with people on fixed incomes . . .!

Dehede011: No, don't stop. We like it.

AGplusone: Laurie (FldAx@aol.com) might find a copy of anything you send me useful too, Filly (or anyone else).

AGplusone: What say we take five minutes ... anyone else need a copy of Jani's post while we break?

BPRAL22169: Fine by me.

AGplusone: Please return from watering you cat at 40 past the hour ...

Merfilly8: good

AGplusone: your cat ...

Dehede011: yes,

geeairmoe2: Have to be going now. I'll try to keep up on this topic on afh.

AGplusone: Please do, Will and maybe post a comment?

BPRAL22169: Will -- has your copy of the Journal arrived yet?

AGplusone: Was that a copy you wanted Ron?

geeairmoe2: I'll try on the posts --- yes on the Journal arriving. You'll soon receive gushing praise and subscription renewal.

ddavitt: Did the Canadian cheque work OK Bill?

BPRAL22169: Oh, goody -- I can pay for the expensive promotion I did early this year. it only netted me one library -- but that was a doozy: the Bodelian.

ddavitt: I'm still dining out on that one Bill....

BPRAL22169: BofA hasn't spit it up yet, Jane, so I think it's going to be okay.

geeairmoe2 has left the room.

AGplusone: <Bob, Master of All He Surveys, has expressed a desire to look out the door, brb>

BPRAL22169: Cool, isn't it?

ddavitt: Certainly is....

ddavitt: Though I've had a few blank looks from some people....

Merfilly8: I get blank looks all day long

Merfilly8: often from the mirror

BPRAL22169: That is an expression of their soul, Jane: pass on, dear friend, pass on.

ddavitt: LOL

BPRAL22169: And lightly rest in Duke Humphrey's arms.

ddavitt: well, if they don't know about the Bodley, what good are their opinions anyway? :-)

ddavitt: Intellectual snob? moi?

AGplusone: <btw, Jani asked me to tell everyone she'll be at the Saturday meeting and would definitely like to discuss her post and any replies to it>

ddavitt: Still regret that I never went in it on my visits to Oxford though...

ddavitt: Good!

AGplusone: And keep an eye out for 'labert' will you, everyone ...

BPRAL22169: I have this romantic vision of Lady Peter researching Sheridan leFanu and coming across the Journal.

ddavitt: good old harriet

ddavitt: Just re read those actaully

Merfilly8: I'll be out of Staurdays...work til six, and don't make it home til seven-ish

AGplusone: The "Adult Education" aspect of what she's posted is fascinating too ... and Phillip Owensby might definitely be interested ...

BPRAL22169: I haven't re-read Gaudy Night and Busman's Honeymoon this year -- too busy with the reearch.

ddavitt: Plus just read the laurie King;s about Sherlock; Mrs Holmes is always working there

BPRAL22169: brb

ddavitt: Sorry, Miss Russell I should say...

AGplusone: time for my teapot to whistle ... brb

Merfilly8: perhaps I'll be able to fford a subscription soon, Bill

Merfilly8: Seems I am still employed...for a time at least

ddavitt: I'm saving up for the back issues...Christmas maybe

Merfilly8: My employer just axed over 300 stores

ddavitt: Ouch!

Merfilly8: yeah...and part of their restructure may eliminate my job

ddavitt: Fingers crossed for you Filly

Patricia A M 555: ::wince::

Merfilly8: thanks..haven't even been there a month yet, though I've known the store for ever

Patricia A M 555: well, there's thunder sounding outside, so I'd better run. see ya!

Merfilly8: see ya

ddavitt: Bye!

GHMyst: I should mention that I am trying to arrange to give a talk on The Great

Patricia A M 555 has left the room.

GHMyst: Heinlein Mystery at the Tampa area con in October.

Merfilly8: oh?

BPRAL22169: That should be fun.

GHMyst: Nothing definite yet

GHMyst: So I can plug the Society at the same time

BPRAL22169: Someone really should do the "Where To" panel live at a con before this year is out.

ddavitt: And sell videos of it for the Society!

AGplusone: That's the sort of thing we need to know, Ed. Laurie may be able to put together some flyers or posters for you ...

BPRAL22169: You know, it would be a good idea to videotape Heinlein panels and events at cons just so we can share them around the Society.

Merfilly8: Well, gentle beings, I'm afraid I must be going...tired tonight.

ddavitt: Wasn't there one of the meeting in requiem?

Merfilly8: I'll keep up on Posts as I can.

ddavitt: Night Filly

BPRAL22169: Good night Ms. V.

Merfilly8 has left the room.

AGplusone: Night Stephanie

Dehede011: Jane you just missed something dear to my heart.

ddavitt: What was that?

Dehede011: Videos of RAH speaking under whatever circumstances.

Dehede011: I have never seen one.

ddavitt: That would be incredible...but do any exist?

SAcademy: Where did you see those, Ron?

Lucylou98: Are there videos out there?

Dehede011: sorry I meant "mentioned" not "missed."

GHMyst: Videotaping talks or panels at a con would probably require an agreement with con organizers

BPRAL22169: Well, there is the appearance on Walter Cronkite in 1969.

ddavitt: Or the NASA one

Dehede011: I have never seen one.

BPRAL22169: And I think the speech at MidAmeriCon was videotaped.

Dehede011: I looked to see if he was in my copy of Destination Moon.

GHMyst: any truth to that??

SAcademy: No, it wasn't and anyway it was a poor speech--no preparation.

ddavitt: Were the Requiem evevts taped though? ISTR it being mentioned in the book?

AGplusone: I still adhere to the theory that he played the Commodore in Project Moonbase ... looks a lot like him.

Dehede011: I don't have PM

SAcademy: I have an awful tape of the requiem one

ddavitt: Not good enough quality to reproduce then?

ddavitt: assuming it were possible..

SAcademy: Amateur and quite poor quality.

ddavitt: :-(

BPRAL22169: That's one thing -- high quality video cameras (digital) are so widespread nowadays that anyone can make a decent videotape.

SAcademy: I do have a pro one of the Cronkite interview, but promised not to copy it.

SAcademy: Someone at CBS forgot to copyright it.

Dehede011: Darn, I watched closely and still missed the Cronkite interview.

ddavitt: So it's not available commercially then?

SAcademy: No. They could copyright it now, but I don't think they will.

Dehede011: I would have given an eye tooth to see the "female astronaut" exchange.

ddavitt: I bet there's lots of footage of stuff that people would like to have on video lurking in storerooms...the BBC junked lots of old Dr Who episodes I think...just trew them away

SAcademy: It took me 29 years to ger the one I have.

Dehede011: Wow, you are persistent SA. :)

ddavitt: Need a version of the Bodelian for film; but it's so perishable i suppose

Dehede011: But then I waited 55 years to get a copy of a boy's book I wanted.

SAcademy: Isn't the Bodlian online?

ddavitt: Yes...

SAcademy: Can't you make a copy of that?

ddavitt: but I don't think you can access much unless yo're a memeber of the University

SAcademy: Or bookmark it?

Dehede011: Bodelian??

GHMyst: I must call it an evening. I will try to be on Saturday, but not

ddavitt: Librray in Oxford

ddavitt: Sp!!

GHMyst: sure. Night, all.

ddavitt: Bye

SAcademy: Bye

Dehede011: bye

GHMyst has left the room.

ddavitt: Eventually a lot of the really rare books will be available online so people can study them without touching; British library is doing this slowly I think

Dehede011: Help me with "Bodelian?"

SAcademy: There's a library in NY that might have its stuff online.

BPRAL22169: Rita Bottoms and I talked about scanning RAH's mss so the paper wouldn't have to be handled.

BPRAL22169: Big job.

ddavitt: It is the library in Oxford england; attached to the University

Dehede011: Thank you.

ddavitt: Has every book ever printed ( sort of)

Dehede011: Sounds great.

AGplusone: No bigger than microfilm ... with the proper equipment ...

ddavitt: I want to be locked in there over the weekend...

SAcademy: All but one.

ddavitt: My brother in law and his wife are both Oxford grads; I plan to make them take me as a visitor one day

BPRAL22169: I'm still hoping for the Vatican Library. And lock me in for several weeks.

ddavitt: Which one SA?

Dehede011: Which is bigger - Bodelian, Vatican or the Library of Congress?

SAcademy: One he wrote when he was coming down with that need for the carotid artery bypass operation.

ddavitt: British library too..

ddavitt: Oh yes....

Lucylou98: I'm betting the Vatican?

ddavitt: I bet it has some unusual ones...

SAcademy: Yes, they have the index there. All the proscribed books!

ddavitt: That's right....makes a good reading list

SAcademy: One of my French profs told us about that.

BPRAL22169: It's also collected unique works of art -- the "original" Hippocratic oath, fof example.

ddavitt: I think my mother said books added to the list got mentioned in church...

Lucylou98: From Roman times, bill?

SAcademy: That's not possible!

Lucylou98: or.....Byzantium period?

AGplusone: They used to post books and movies Jane ... the Legion of Decency here in the U.S.

ddavitt: Scary....

SAcademy: No, he was ancient Greek.

BPRAL22169: I'm just passing on what I was told. There were antiquarians around in Rome.

Lucylou98: Thought he was Roman...

BPRAL22169: 7th century BC Greek, I think.

SAcademy: Nope, he was Greek.

BPRAL22169: Contemporary with Pythagoras, wasn't he?

ddavitt: people burning books is so appalling a sight...especially when they've not read them for themselves, just obeying orders from above...

Dehede011: I was always told no one knew for sure what the extent of the Vatican Library was. Any truth in that?

AGplusone: And print the names in the paper put out by the bishop

SAcademy: No., ;earlier than Pythagoras.

ddavitt: How would you know Ron? TINC

ddavitt: Could you trust any answer you got?

SAcademy: Don't know, Ron.

Dehede011: Yes, sort of like the monster in Lake Michigan that is so terrible that no white man has ever seen it and lived to tell the tale.

ddavitt: Have people seeen the nice new editions of the OZ books? Facsimiles of the originals in hardcover;

ddavitt: Like the ones Deet had I suppose

AGplusone: published by whom?

SAcademy: Never heard of the Lake Michigan monster!

ddavitt: Don't know; saw Glinda in the library and enjoyed looking at the illustratuions

Dehede011: I may look for those. Hated them when my teacher read them to us. WWII was going on and I wanted to know about airplanes.

ddavitt: Could check Amazon

BPRAL22169: I read about a dozen of them when I was a kid.

ddavitt: I have them all in pb

ddavitt: Well, it's late for me so I'll say goodnight. see you all saturday hopefully

SAcademy: British publication?

Dehede011: Don't let the Lake Ontario monster get you.

ddavitt: well, they're in the Canadian libraries...

ddavitt: Very nice looking anyway

AGplusone: See ya, Jane

ddavitt has left the room.

SAcademy: Me, too. Time for me to sleep! Nite all.

AGplusone: G'nite, SA

BPRAL22169: Very interesting pattern today, very different from the usual. We started out with 12 and have been losing people one at a time, but we haven't really gained anybody.

BPRAL22169: Good night. Schlaf' gut.

SAcademy has left the room.

AGplusone: We got a few loading AIM ...

AGplusone: My buddy list is kaput ... lost it with all the reinstalling of software, so watch for them ....

AGplusone: but I do now seem to be working okay.

AGplusone: Only took about fourteen hours of repairing the disk.

Dehede011: Dave was that mechanical or programing?

BPRAL22169: Dave, where on AOL is the AIM download to be found?

AGplusone: http://www.aol.com/aim/home.html

AGplusone: programming ... had several power outages last week and think it corrupted like hell

AGplusone: Another argument against power deregulation

Dehede011: Okay, we have been spared that so far this summer.

BPRAL22169: We've been having power flickers here, too -- West Hollywood and Beverly Hills have very unsteady power supply.

AGplusone: Well, my mother's in a hospital on oxygen ...

Lucylou98: They are talking power deregulation seriously?

AGplusone: and could go on a respirator any time ... hope the emergency power is working

BPRAL22169: How's the convalescent hospital working out for her?

AGplusone: They did it here ....

AGplusone: she's back in acute

AGplusone: developing new and different strains of pneumonia

Lucylou98: Remember when phone co. was busted up? Never been as good service since.

BPRAL22169: CTD is always tough on the family.

BPRAL22169: That's a comfort for the breakup of MicroSoft, Lisa -- Windows couldn't get any worse.

Lucylou98: David, I'm sorry to hear about your Mother's struggle

AGplusone: and might get better ...

AGplusone: Thanks Luc

Dehede011: Dave, I hope your mom gets better.

AGplusone: so do we all ... she was very alert last night and feeling well

AGplusone: and telling stories about working for Stevenson ... and Kennedy

Lucylou98: how do i send an invite to someone?

AGplusone: Use control T

Dehede011: LL you have a very ill mother in law don't you? How is she?

AGplusone: Make sure you type the room name correctly

BPRAL22169: Must be a MAC thing.

Lucylou98: trying to get Steve in here..

AGplusone: Can't you guys do that ... gimme Steve's full name

Lucylou98: Nanna is experiencing some bleeding still...

Lucylou98: Prnzofthvs1

Lucylou98: Ron, she's still in NICU

Prnzofthvs1 has entered the room.

Dehede011: That doesn't sound good either.

AGplusone: Hi, Steve

Dehede011: Hi, Prn.

Lucylou98: Hi, Steve

Prnzofthvs1: herro, occidentals!

Lucylou98: Just praying for no lasting ill effects

AGplusone: Sorry didn't pick you up myself ... lost my buddy list with all the power outages here.

Prnzofthvs1: I just now got online

Dehede011: brb

AGplusone: What did you think of Jani's post asking for help developing class outlines, Steve?

Prnzofthvs1: Well, I think it's an excellent idea; however, being a world-class illiterate, I haven't been able to come up with anything yet.

Dehede011: back

AGplusone: And, do you agree that there are no classes regularly given here that they would fit in ... I recall some catch-all 'senior problems' sort of classes they used to give in California ...

AGplusone: although not everyone took them ...

Prnzofthvs1: We had to take that course as a requirement at my HS

AGplusone: wasn't where and when I went, but it was available

Lucylou98: Wish it had been offered here.

AGplusone: depends on district I suppose

Prnzofthvs1: Of course, when I was a senior, we had a lot of problems! ;-)

AGplusone: Yeah, "sex, drugs, and rock and roll!" forever.

BPRAL22169: Those were "problems"? I didn't get the memo.

Lucylou98: Going to class was a problem for me.

Prnzofthvs1: Well, the sex and r&r were major factors; only the "in crowd" knew about the drugs.

AGplusone: 'course you guys probably had the "Beetles" instead of R & R

Prnzofthvs1: Beatles...

Skansiewic has entered the room.

AGplusone: That's funny ... even we knew about drugs ... nobody used them ... but they were there. Hi, Skan ... welcome

Prnzofthvs1: they didn't get here until after I returned from boot camp, winter of 64

Lucylou98: Hello, skansi

AGplusone: MJ and H were around in the 50s

Skansiewic: hello .. my apologies for going away from my system earlier...please just stan

Prnzofthvs1: Oh, I had done a class paper on drugs in 9th grade; just hadn't done any field research at the time

AGplusone: I'm David, Stan

Prnzofthvs1: made up for it later, though!

Prnzofthvs1: I'm Steve the rabble-rouser, Stan

Dehede011: Hi Stan

Skansiewic: Hi david, Steve... I'm a rabble rouser also

Lucylou98: Stan = Skan?

AGplusone: We've been discussing formation of a charitable "Heinlein Society" this evening ... see any of the premeeting posts

Dehede011: I was always described as an Iconoclast

AGplusone: ?

Dehede011: :)

Skansiewic: Skansiewic=stan kansiewicz

AGplusone: That works!

Dehede011: Good Chicago name

Lucylou98: Good to meet you Stan

AGplusone: Do I have you on a mailing list?

AGplusone: for notices, etc., ....

Skansiewic: nope.. not yet.. I"m just a lurker so far

AGplusone: (that's fine ... )

AGplusone: Let me know ...

Prnzofthvs1: Bill - that copy of Children of the Atom I got is a book club edition, from Grosset and Dunlap.

Skansiewic: Aye, IF I decide I have free time I'll jump on the list

AGplusone: Btw, for next meeting, we'll finish up Revolt in 2100 ... with Misfit and Methselah's Children ...

Dehede011: Folks, this old Indian is heading for his tepee.

Lucylou98: I'm about to purchase a copy of COA. BTW, thanx for bringing that title to mind BPR

Prnzofthvs1: God, I wish my RAH books weren't in a packing box!

Dehede011: night everyone.

Dehede011 has left the room.

AGplusone: and I need to know if we want to do Universe and Common Sense after that ...

AGplusone: Good book Luc

AGplusone: Methuselah's .... (sp. is really not my strong suit tonight)

Lucylou98: and a nice copy to boot

AGplusone: Any questions we can address, Stan ... in the last 30 minutes?

AGplusone: By "next meeting" I mean the ones in two weeks, not the one Saturday, which will be on the same topic as tonight

AGplusone: Do you have Universe and Common Sense, Steve?

Prnzofthvs1: I have a copy of Friday, that I just bought at a used book store; that's the extent of what I have available right now.

AGplusone: Those two have been out of print a loooong time ... people rarely talk about them ....

Skansiewic: I'm wishing I had closer to a complete set. and the local used place is getting used to seeing me come clear them out..

Prnzofthvs1: I already had the HB of it, but needed a RAH fix desparately

AGplusone: so I'm wondering whether to try to have a meeting on them ...

AGplusone: We have a book exchange site, Stan, that might be helpful ...

Skansiewic: What is/are Universe and common sense?.. never heard of that one..

Prnzofthvs1: I tried to buy Universe and Common Sense on eBay, but got outbid. :'(

AGplusone: The 'bread on the waters' booksite for old copies of Heinlein

BPRAL22169: The novelets were combined into a British ed. as Orphans of the Sky and then released in the U.S. with a bridge written by RAH.

AGplusone: The original end of the Future History series ... recall the first interstellar ship Laz talks about before he hijacks the second one for the families in Meth's Children?

AGplusone: It gets lost ....

AGplusone: crew and load of immigrants regresses back to medieval society ... believe that the ship (which they don't know is a ship) is the universe ....

AGplusone: Don't know there's anything else 'out there' ....

Prnzofthvs1: in some cases, farther back than medieval!

Skansiewic: I remember reading that one..

AGplusone: Cause they have never seen anything else ... remember the twins?

Lucylou98: a generation ship story?

AGplusone: Joe-Jack(?) yes, Luc

BPRAL22169: Joe-Jim, I think

AGplusone: Yes

AGplusone: Siamese twins ...

Prnzofthvs1: Bill - did you see my comment about Children of the Atom?

BPRAL22169: I don't think so, Steve

BPRAL22169: A two-headed mutant.

BPRAL22169: I take it you've finished the book?

AGplusone: Would like to discuss the two, but wonder how many have a copy or recollection of the stories ... I thought they were great!

Prnzofthvs1: It's a book club edition, published by Grosset and Dunlap.

BPRAL22169: When were you thinking of scheduling them?

Lucylou98: Wish I was going to Chi-Con to buy books

AGplusone: Four weeks off ...

BPRAL22169: That part I did get.

Prnzofthvs1: Haven't gotten a chance to sit down with it yet, Bill - don't want any interruptions when I start it.

AGplusone: To finally 'finish' the Future History series ...

BPRAL22169: Not quite enough time to scour e-bay for copies.

BPRAL22169: usually there are two or three copies among the 180-250 heinlein items.

AGplusone: I could put it six weeks and we could have reports on ChiCon ... etc., further stuff on THS, etc. four weeks off ...

BPRAL22169: That's a little tight for me -- i won't be getting back in town until the 13th

Skansiewic: I don't know what I did with my complete future history .. paperback...doesn't seem to be on my shelf.. I'll be gone vacationing for 2 weeks.. should have a chance at some obscure book dealers... come home with a stack of RAH for ebay :-D

AGplusone: Well, we'll talk about it. Do "Misfit" "Coventry" and Meth's Children in two weeks .... ....

BPRAL22169: I jus tbought a hardback of Orphans so I have one extra copy in paperback, but that's not one I have stockpiled.

AGplusone: although you'd miss that one, wouldn't you?

BPRAL22169: Yes -- I'll be at Chicon on that day.

BPRAL22169: Actually, in the air for most of the meeting.

Lucylou98: Will you buy many books while there BPR?

BPRAL22169: Reminds me -- you need to get that bottle of Remy to me within the next two weeks if you still want me to take it with me.

BPRAL22169: I've got an eye on some Astoundings, rather than books.

AGplusone: Why don't we do this ... don "Misfit" and "Coventry" on two weeks off .... Meth's Children four weeks off, report on ChiCon .... Yes, remind me .... thanks. I owe Joe big time.

AGplusone: report on ChiCon six weeks off and see what we have for Orphans of the Sky eight weeks off

Prnzofthvs1: I once knew some Meth children...lots of defects.....

BPRAL22169: Urk

AGplusone: Bleeert!

AGplusone: :-)

Prnzofthvs1: What, no "keyboards?"

Lucylou98: One should never touch that kind of stuff.

AGplusone: Well, then of course there is Marian Schultz

BPRAL22169: The con will be over on the 4th; I think the 14th would be better for the Chicon report -- but it probably won't take up an entire meeting.

AGplusone: or was it Marion?

AGplusone: Stan, it's nice you could come. Stop in Saturday if you wish, and David Wright will have a full log of this meeting up by or before then so you can get up to speed if you wish ...

Prnzofthvs1: You say Marian, I say Marion; let's call the whole thing off...

AGplusone: Naw, that's "Marian the Librarian" from Music Man

Prnzofthvs1: as opposed to Marion Morrison...

Skansiewic: I shall try to stop by saturday to try and figure out what all is going on.. I think I'm up to late anyhow but thats ok..I just need a list of stuff I need to read or buy and when the next "new" meeting is..

AGplusone: Yeah, funny how Laz got that last name wrong, wasn't it .... "Revolt in 2100" will be the copy you should look for for the next two meetings

AGplusone: was a new copy of it together with Methuselah's Children (all in one volume) published last year by Baen

AGplusone: If you don't have them already in The Past Through Tomorrow ...

Prnzofthvs1: You realize how close we are now to the time those events took/will take place? And Pat Robertson has already run for President once...

Skansiewic: Yeah.. I was just going to ask if my copy of past through tommorrow... just found it would be adequete(sp)

AGplusone: hehehe

AGplusone: that's good ... only thing is ... you might wish Revolt for the essay concerning stories never written ... but it's only 3-4 pages long

Skansiewic: what was the title of that essay...

Lucylou98: Ben bova, Harry Turtledove and omg Nancy Kress are attending the con:(

BPRAL22169: "Concerning Stories Never Written."

AGplusone: and maybe the good fairy will drop a copy on your head if you ask nice and she's listening ... "Concerning Stories Never Written: A Postscript"

Skansiewic: I guess I'll go out and look for revolt... nothing wrong with duplication.. I just bought greeen hills and have expanded universe too

BPRAL22169: I'm going to go offline now -- thanks for coming, people, and we'll continue the discussion Saturday.

AGplusone: ... but the good fairy will need your e mail address ... nope, nothin wrong with it ...

AGplusone: Okay, Bill, glad I put the 'puter back together in time

BPRAL22169: Me too.

BPRAL22169: Tahnks again.

AGplusone: me gusta

BPRAL22169 has left the room.

Prnzofthvs1: I gotta get; dinner's waiting...

Lucylou98: i'm outta here folks

Prnzofthvs1: see ya'al later

Lucylou98: bye

AGplusone: Me too ... darling wife just arrived home, see ya.

Prnzofthvs1 has left the room.

Lucylou98 has left the room.

Skansiewic: bye ya'll.. nice meeting ya.. I think I'll sit here with the ghost

AGplusone: Anything I can answer Stan?

AGplusone: Okay ...

AGplusone: The ghost is Dave Wright who is logging from his office

Skansiewic: I'm not sure what I should ask.. so I don't think there is anything you can answer

AGplusone: "Why is there air?" "To blow up volley balls" ... I'll answer anything

AGplusone: g/nite

Skansiewic: nite

AGplusone: Closing log: August 17, 2000, 8:57 PM, PDT

Skansiewic has left the room.

AGplusone has left the room.

DenvToday has left the room.

Final End of Discussion Log

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