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Heinlein Reader's Discussion Group

Saturday 06-10-2000 5:00 PM

'Black Pits of Luna','It's Great To Be Back' and '--We Also Walk Dogs'

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Here begin the AFH Postings


You have just entered room "Heinlein Readers Group."

stephenveiss has entered the room.

dwrighsr: Greetings Stephen.

stephenveiss: hullo

n1yqh a has entered the room.

dwrighsr: Greetings. We are early, but I wanted to get the room set up. I expect that it will be 15-20 minutes before the others arrive. so relax and hang around.

dwrighsr: Here's the log from Thursdays chat

SAcademy has entered the room.

SAcademy: good evening. If it is evening!

dwrighsr: Welcome SA. There are only the three of us here now. Stephen in England and I forget n1yqh a' real name.

n1yqh a: Mike

n1yqh a: A slightly distracted Mike, at the moment, though...

dwrighsr: The others should be along in a few minutes. Yes Mike. I thought that was right, but I wasn't sure.

SAcademy: Hello Stephen and Mike. And Mr. Wright, of course.

dwrighsr: I won't be able to respond for a bit. My son has to use the computer to check his mail. Y'all keep an eye out for AGplusone and send him an invite when he shows up. He has a MAC and can't use the shortcut method.

dwrighsr: Please call me David. Actually, to keep things straight when David Silver (AGplusone) gets here would be to call me Davew as that is my nickname around work.

SAcademy: How does one send an invitation?

dwrighsr: If you don't have them in your 'buddy list', you won't be able to. If you do then when they appear in the window, then highlight their name and click on the leftmost icon at the bottom of that screen above where it says' search the web'

dwrighsr: Here he comes. I'll be off line for a few minutes.

AGplusone has entered the room.

SAcademy: Then you don't need an invitation.

AGplusone: Hi, David, Mike, Stephen, SA ... let me go get some tea ... and this of this while I'm gone. Has anyone every heard of an artist named Krantz who might have painted, or sculpted something called the "Weeping Buddha"?

AGplusone: "thing of this"

AGplusone: think ... think ... think

SAcademy: No never heard of him.

n1yqh a: It sounds very familiar... Was there a mention of it in one of RAH's books or something?

SAcademy: Could be, I suppose. Can't keep track of them all--the minor characters

n1yqh a: No, I mean, the sculpture? maybe? I'm thinking that it might have been one of Jubal's sculptures in SiaSL?

AGplusone: In "We Also Walk Dogs" there's a scene where Grace walks into her boss's office, and the viewscreen mentions it usually has a representation of that work when not in use (the work is in the basement) ...

n1yqh a: Of course, that's just a guess - I'm probably dead wrong..

n1yqh a: Right - that's what I was thinking of. Yep, I was right - I was dead wrong...

AGplusone: And RAH had a habit of 'tipping his hat' to artists he admired in his works ....

AGplusone: Let me show you something: ...

AGplusone: Artist Biography - Robert B. Krantz (1918-1996)

AGplusone: See:http://www.jonesgallery.com/jones02.html#RKrantz

AGplusone: Robert Krantz's began his art career in Illinois as a department store artist. After the war, in 1963, Krantz moved to the artist's colony of Laguna Beach. Robert continued painting until he developed an interest in sculpting. After that sculpture was his only medium. The beautiful female figure became his subject. His sensitive, finely rendered sculptures are compliments to womankind.

SAcademy: Good paintings of the mountains.

AGplusone: Them too ... there's an entire section in To Sail that mentions another well-known artist, a painter, who made quite a beautiful painting at the Broadmoor near where RAH and Ginny lived.

BPRAL22169 has entered the room.

BPRAL22169: I wondered if this would work.

BPRAL22169: Bold on - can't find any control for larger typeface

AGplusone: It did. I just brought up an artist mentioned, perhaps, in WE Also Walk Dogs ... fellow named Krantz. Ever hear of him?

SAcademy: Maxfield Parrish.

AGplusone: Yes, SA, Parrish is the fellow who painted the one in the Broadmoor

BPRAL22169: Parrish is rather well known; Krantz doesn't ring bells, though.

SAcademy: With the lake moved from in back of the hotel to the front!

BPRAL22169: Artistic license.

AGplusone: And since, "We Also Walk ... " is 'about' art to an extent, wondered whether we might discuss that at least a little.

Gaeltachta has entered the room.

AGplusone: Bill and Sean: See: :http://www.jonesgallery.com/jones02.html#RKrantz

Gaeltachta: OK

AGplusone: I found a "Krantz" and a representation of one of his works. Looking at it, considering the Rodin RAH obviously admired from SiaSL, is is possibile that this may have been the Krantz he refers to in "WE Also Walk ... "?

Gaeltachta: Yes, ""The Weeping Buddha"

BPRAL22169: Krantz was born 1918 -- he would have been 19 years old at the time.

AGplusone: You may have to scroll down a bit in that page to find it ... ah, shucks! Another theory bites the dust.

AGplusone: Ah well ...

BPRAL22169: And this is a little more sentimental than I'm used to thinking of Heinlein's sculptural tastes.

AGplusone: But Maria del Carmen is nice ... to look at.

Gaeltachta: Yes.

BPRAL22169: Rodin's sculptural theory is a little more robust, "muscular" than some others -- on the other hand, there's The Little mermaid, which is quite sentimental. So it's a toss-up.

AGplusone: "tipping the hat" is something that RAH did, however, we'll agree on that, on't we?

BPRAL22169: yes -- he always played fair with the reader: when he wants to refer to someone' swork he always tucks the reference away somewherein the story.

Gaeltachta: (making breakfast).... Give me a few minutes, and I will be able to devote my full attention. Well, as much as usual......

AGplusone: But does he always do it directly ... for instance, there a mention of a family in Number of the Beast, the last chapter, L'envoi, that Jubal writes about, called the Stonebenders ... does anoyone have a theory on who they may have been?

AGplusone: anyone

BPRAL22169: Apparently EVERYBODY's related to the Stonebenders.

n1yqh a: They show up in Space Cadet too, don't they?

n1yqh a: Comparing Uncle Bodie to Grandpa Stonebender, or something like that?

AGplusone: I read a story recently by Henry Kuttner, involving a family call the Hogbens ... quite weird enough to have an Uncle Tobias who they keep in a bucket ...

AGplusone: Yes, I think so, Mike.

BPRAL22169: The Hogben stories were quite funny.

AGplusone: Hilarious!

BPRAL22169: Kuttner was one of the greats.

AGplusone: And L'envoi is a chapter in which RAH brings together all the authors and characters he enjoyed ... the chapter beings with Jubal writing a "Stonebender"/maybe a Hogben story?

geeairmoe2 has entered the room.

Lucylou98 has entered the room.

Lucylou98: Hello

AGplusone: [reason I remembered the Hogben stories is recently someone gave me a copy of the old Thrilling Wonder Stories issue that had "Jerry Was A Man" in it. Right next to it is one of Kuttner's Hogben stories.] Hi, Lisa, Will.

geeairmoe2: Yo, all.

Lucylou98: Hi, gee

Gaeltachta: Hi Will, Lisa.

AGplusone: We're talking a little about the 'art' in Heinlein stories, and RAH's habit of mentioning artists he admired in various of them.

Gaeltachta: brb

Lucylou98: Been at the ball park for 7 hrs. today. I am looking at the Krantz site now.

AGplusone: It's a pretty little sculpture, probably not the Krantz RAH referred to, but sometimes there is a real person being referred to by the author

BPRAL22169: It occurs to me that he does put relative "unknown" real references into his story -- the cadet at Annapolis who shouted something on the steps of Bancroft Hall --and Walker Evans...

Gaeltachta: I found a pic of a wood sculpture "Weeping Buddha" at http://www.natashascafe.com/html/buddha.html

BPRAL22169: But he couldn't have run into Krantz except by the wildest coincidence when he was in Greenwich village.

AGplusone: And he uses names over and over, MacRae, for example in "It's Great To Be Back" and in Red Planet.

AGplusone: You did! Let me look.

Lucylou98: Is the "flower of forgetfullness" supposed to have been by a Krantz?

Gaeltachta: Pretty emotional carving IMO

BPRAL22169: No, I think that was a Ming bowl.

BPRAL22169: That reminds me, though: I neverdid get a reply from the British Museum

Lucylou98: ahhhh My employer has vases from the Ching dynasty.

AGplusone: Neither did I get a reply from the British specialists I wrote to a couple years ago.

A Lonely Hill has entered the room.

LearethGFS has entered the room.

AGplusone: That is a beautiful Buddha ... is there a convension of works on Buddha in this position? Does anyone Know? Like a theme frequently done.

AGplusone: convention

DenvToday has entered the room.

AGplusone: It reminds me a little of the Carytid

Gaeltachta: Any Buddhists here?

DenvToday: Howdy everybody.

LearethGFS: Is this a pic that was linked to before I came in?

Lucylou98: is that the column in a female form?

Gaeltachta: http://www.natashascafe.com/html/buddha.html

A Lonely Hill: Heya.

AGplusone: Hi, Denv, Danielle, LH ;-)

Lucylou98: in Greece? the Carytid?

DenvToday: Howdy David.

AGplusone: Yes, that one.

AGplusone: The girl collapsed under the weight

Lucylou98: Hi, to the people i didn't greet!

DenvToday: Hello Lucy.

Lucylou98: one of them is a copy

LearethGFS: I'm Danielle, and a newbie, in case no one knows who I am.

Lucylou98: Hi, Danielle:-)

A Lonely Hill: (sniff) LH? It's Greg, dangit. #;-}>

DenvToday: Nice to meet you, Danielle.

A Lonely Hill: :::should log off and come back on with gfoxcook:::

A Lonely Hill: brb

DenvToday: I'm Ron. But you can call me...Ron.

Gaeltachta: Hi Danielle. I read the log from Thursday night. My daughter is Danielle as well!

Gaeltachta: I'm Sean

AGplusone: I knew that, Greg :-D

A Lonely Hill has left the room.

Lucylou98: I don't know who most of you people are.

LearethGFS: When I was a kid, there was no one my own age named Danielle... and now it's a suddenly popular name.

DenvToday: Lucy, join the club. I don't know who I am either.

DenvToday: It's a nice name.

geeairmoe2: Will, but since we often have multiple Wills, gee is fine.

gfoXcook has entered the room.

DenvToday: Well, one more member of the 8th level of Hell. Assad died today. What a shame.

DenvToday: The shame being that he didn't die 30 years ago.

gfoXcook: there we go.

AGplusone: Anyway ... about "We Also Walk Dogs" I wonder whether the multiverse aspect of L'envoi, the last chapter in Number of the Beast does tie it into the future history ... (hi, again Greg!) ... referring to the business cards that Snob hands out ... ?

gfoXcook: now at least I shall be referred to as GFox if nothing else. ^_^

AGplusone: I.e., "P.S. We Also Poison Dogs" etc.

AGplusone: Those were the cards that had the anagrams for the Beast and His Wife in them.

DenvToday: It's been many years since I've read TNOTB. When it first came out.

gfoXcook: Number of the Beast was my first Heinlein, back in HS (yeah, a LONG time ago, eh? #;-}>), and I started rereading it this past winter. But I got distracted by english lit assignments.

gfoXcook: I'll have to start over again sometime in July, most likley.

gfoXcook: likely, rather.

gfoXcook: My mind understood what was going on.

DenvToday: As I recall, there is a universe created every time a writer creates a story.

gfoXcook: but my heart really didn't (hadn't been in any long term relationships yet, eros and agape together)

gfoXcook: Is that how it went?

gfoXcook: I think I dually interpreted it that that could be the case, or perhaps any existing universe finds its way into stories.

AGplusone: Danielle: there's a last chapter in one book that is a little weird, in which the chararacters are trying to combat "Beasts" who turn out to be the author ... a very in joke. and perhaps Heinlein's point, as Denv (Ron) just mentioned.

gfoXcook: But perhaps I've allowed other theories to cloud my Heinlein recollections. Damnit. That was only 1993, why can't I remember? (sob)

BPRAL22169: Depends on whether you see it as taking off from Wheeler or from Dunne.

DenvToday: The logic of it is that everybody here is also a charcter in a story that somebody else has written.

gfoXcook: exactly.

gfoXcook: but then the whole chicken and egg debate ensues. #;-}>

BPRAL22169: If it's Wheeler at all, then every decision or alternate possibilty generates a new worldline -- but poets -- makers -- create additional worlds.

gfoXcook: Well, I think the conclusion is the same either way: Art = Creation, Authors (or any artists) = gods of some sort.

geeairmoe2: Beast was the first "new" RAH for me after I first started reading him in mid-70s.

AGplusone: 'splain a little more, please, Bill. (Michael Crighton's last novel: Timeline, picks up on the same point)

BPRAL22169: Demiurges.

Lucylou98: The Thirteenth floor was sort of like that.

AGplusone: Just as artists create 'weeping buddhae'

geeairmoe2 has left the room.

gfoXcook: <--- mixture of tons of idealogies/religions/spritiualities, but the simplest religion he can claim is Deism.

AGplusone: We lost the Aggie, watch for him, Rice.

BPRAL22169: Back in 1927 Dunne wrote about a 5-dimensional space-time in which every event created a new universe -- Heinlein used the theory in "Elsewhen." 13th Floor was a virtual reality saga, not cosmology.

gfoXcook: LOL!

gfoXcook: :::looking towards College Station:::

gfoXcook: I can't see that far, damnit!

BPRAL22169: A physicist, Wheeler, came up with the "many worlds" hypothesis that's become accepted in the physics community.

gfoXcook: I haven't read Elsewhen, I don't believe. Which collection(s) is that in?

AGplusone: Ac tually he may be UT

BPRAL22169: Assignment in Eternity.

gfoXcook: My parents are both UT grads. heh.

BPRAL22169: Newly out from baen.

gfoXcook: Ahhh. Thanks.

BPRAL22169: The multi-dimensional hypothesis comes from Dunne-Wheeler. The bit about mythopoeic writers does not, however.

DenvToday: James P. Hogan wrote a novel in a similar vein. He has a scientific background, and he maintains that many serious scientists believe in multiple universes.

BPRAL22169: Yes -- that's the Wheeler influence spreading through the physics/cosmology community.

AGplusone: That was good news that TPTT is in print in the SFBC edition, btw.

DenvToday: I'm trying to imagine a universe without IRS agents.....

DenvToday:

AGplusone: So, asking for a theory ... anyone have a guess in what timeline would Grace Cormet's world exist?

AGplusone: If it were in the Future History ...

gfoXcook: :::is going to Florida, Austin, San Fran, and NYC this summer, then moving to NYC after a possible job in either Houston or Auckland, New Zealand, of all places (haven't been there since 1984):::

gfoXcook: I'm in the process of moving completely out of my Houston apartment from 98-2000, so... I think I'll drop a bit out of this convo, but I'll check back now and then. (gotta mow the lawn and take a swim, too) See yas later.

AGplusone: Strange Martians ... like the ones in Jerry Was A Man, maybe?

AGplusone: See you when you get back, Greg.

DenvToday: Bye gfo. Nice meeting you.

AGplusone: About "It's Great To Be Back!" ... anyone find something to talk about in it?

Lucylou98: I almost fell asleep at my puter. Very sorry.

AGplusone: I noticed that it's really closely written ... lots of things mentioned very quickly ...

Lucylou98: lol

AGplusone: The missionary who is travelling first class and explains it as necessary because of the 'baby' ... did anyone see that as irony?

BPRAL22169: Those opening paragraphs are textbook examples of how to write scene-setting in science fiction.

AGplusone: Agree, Bill.

BPRAL22169: It's hard to imagine why sf fans in the 40's thought he was vitiating sf writing for the Post, Colliers, etc.

AGplusone: Wasn't he?

BPRAL22169: Well, they were definitely not Astounding-type stories.

DenvToday: brb...

BPRAL22169: It's become fashionable to decry the sf 'ghetto' -- but one thing the ghettoization of sf allows you to do is develop a working vocabulary everyone agrees on.

BPRAL22169: One of the reasons sci-fi is so dstressingly low-level is that it cannot draw on the sophisticated conventions developed in "mainstream' science fiction.

AGplusone: They weren't, I agree, they were just stories with a different type setting that most Colliers, SEPost readers weren't used to .... and the explanation he puts into the stories for non-familar readers are very economically done ...

AGplusone: but, in essence, they are just well-written stories

Gaeltachta: Surely the MacRae's would have known about the problems of experiencing gravity again after 3 years on the moon? They seem quite surprised.

DenvToday: back.

DenvToday: David, I haven't read the Gifford book. Is it good?

AGplusone: They thought they wouldn't tho, didn't they. Blinded themselves to reality because they were unhappy ...

AGplusone: Not bad. A good compilation of facts worth knowing ... annotated biobliography is how someone described it last meeting, and that's pretty close. Gets everyone on th 'same page' and makes a good start to what will come I think.

Gaeltachta: For "intelligent" people, they overlooked the obvious- the MacRaes.

DenvToday: Can it be bought at Amazon.com?

AGplusone: May be come known as "In the Beginning was ... "

Gaeltachta: I wonder what would have happened if they could not go back to the moon?

BPRAL22169: Very good question -- I know you can get a copy on EBay.

Gaeltachta: Would they have finally re-adjusted?

DenvToday: Thanks. I'll check it out.

BPRAL22169: Best thing to do is go to Gifford's RAH website and order acopy directly from Nitrosyncretic. (Anybody recognize the reference, btw?)

AGplusone: I wonder what happens today to folk who spend time in the US or Australia, then go back home ... to wherever they come from and cannot come back.

AGplusone: John:I:i

BPRAL22169: I had a friend who emigrated to New Zealand, then couldn't make the adjustment so came back after 2 years.

AGplusone: Did he regret it ... not being there?

BPRAL22169: It wasn't the beets on hamburgers that did him in; it was the anti-american prejudice.

Gaeltachta: Yes, some adjust, some do not. Usually people are "leaving" NZ nowadays though.

AGplusone: Quite a lot like the plumber adthe storekeeper that the MacRaes encountered?

BPRAL22169: He also found the anti-Maori bigotry quite disturbing.

Lucylou98: ooops fell asleep again! I'll have to read the log to figure out what's happening.

Lucylou98: Have a good one. bye

Lucylou98 has left the room.

DenvToday: I cheated. I went to the nitrosyncretic web site.

DenvToday: Anybody want the reference?

AGplusone: That will work ...

DenvToday: The name Nitrosyncretic Press is taken from a very obscure Heinlein reference. It's so obscure that it won't be found in any of Heinlein's own works.

DenvToday: In 1942, William A.P. White (aka Anthony Boucher and H.H. Holmes) published a novel titled Rocket to the Morgue. Set in contemporary Los Angeles, the characters are thinly-disguised caricatures of White's writing colleagues. One of the main characters, Austin Carter, is closely modeled on Robert Heinlein.

BPRAL22169: That sounds suspiciously like a quotation.

DenvToday: In the novel, a character goes to "Carter's" house and finds the following intimidating sign on the front door:! ! ! DANGER ! ! !NITROSYNCRETIC LABORATORY! KEEP OUT

BPRAL22169: RAH did have a similar sign on his actual study door.

DenvToday: Would you like the rest of it?

AGplusone: Sure

AGplusone: Is Rocket in print btw?

DenvToday: As another character describes it:"Nice gag, isn't it? You see, the way this house is situated on a hill, people come to this door before the proper main door. This is Austin's workroom, and he used to have a hell of a time with Liberty salesmen. Poundings on the door are distracting when you're working on the collapse of an interstellar empire

DenvToday: . But since he put up the sign, salesmen take one look, shudder, and get the hell out."

BPRAL22169: No, but it can be found from places like bibliofind and ebay.

AGplusone: Sounds like a "crooked house" ....

DenvToday: This bit of ostensibly fictional color has been verified as a real act of Heinlein's. He did have such a sign on the outer office door of his Laurel Canyon home.

DenvToday: The word is apparently a unique creation of Heinlein's as well. At least, my searches haven't turned up any other instances of it, either copied from White's usage or separately coined. The value of a completely unique keyword for the Internet and publishing lists needs no emphasis, I'm sure.

geeairmoe2 has entered the room.

DenvToday: All of that was from the Gifford site.

BPRAL22169: You've lost your Bold.

DenvToday: I've been told that on many occasions.

AGplusone: Leareth: (Danielle) ... do you have any questions about what Heinlein you're reading now?

AGplusone: You're in Time Enough For Love and have read (what?) one of the others?

AGplusone: I've always like TEFL (Time Enough) because there's really four or five different novels in there ....

Gaeltachta: Does RAH-ARC have any illustrations? Just curious.

Gaeltachta: Still haven't received my copy (No. 5)

AGplusone: Just the photo of RAH reading ...

geeairmoe2: No illustrations. Nice cover photo.

DenvToday: TEFL has always been one of my favorites. However...it takes a bit of mind-set adjustment to get past the incest angle.

AGplusone: that Ginny took for one of the back covers years ago.

BPRAL22169: Any idea why non of the reviewers commented about that?

Gaeltachta: I see you have it on your WS David.

DenvToday: As I recall, TNOTB was lavishly illustrated.

AGplusone: I have "Bill's copy" as he was kind enough to lend it to me while mine is on order.

AGplusone: I never saw/had a copy of Number in hardbound. Would like to see one.

geeairmoe2: I saw the incest angel as a kind of Circle of Time parallel. Back to the beginning.

BPRAL22169: I don't recall whether the hardcover edition wasillustrated.

AGplusone: Like an E.R.B. novel?

DenvToday: David, I'm sure you've read Poul Anderson's Boat of a Million Years. Any comparisons with TEFL?

BPRAL22169: There was a trade PB illustrated by Powers.

DenvToday: gee, that's one way of looking at it.

AGplusone: No, you're wrong ... keep telling everyone I'm not a sci-fi reader and have missed a lot of them..

AGplusone: I think you're right, Gee.

geeairmoe2: I have the trade TNOTB. Great illustrations. RAH:ARC says Powers used Penthouse models.

AGplusone: Bill, was the mentioned by Gifford about "DaCapo" something he picked up from you, or what?

DenvToday: Anderson's book is about a small group of immortals. It traces them from ancient times to far in our future. Interesting read.

BPRAL22169: No. It's an inference from the fact Da Capo was on the 1941 publication of the FH chart.

AGplusone: It's part of a late series by him ...

AGplusone: Then you draw the same inference?

geeairmoe2: TNOTB was my first "new" RAH, so may trade copy is pretty beat up.

BPRAL22169: Just a sec -- let me refresh my memory of what Gifford actually said.

AGplusone: So's my paperback.

BPRAL22169: It's so cumbersome being hampered by mere FACTS!

DenvToday: As Don Quixote said, "Facts are the enemy of truth!"

BPRAL22169: "Until its appearance in 1973, this work was listed in the Future History chart as Da Capo (which, in musical notation, means 'repeat from the begininng') Heinlein preserved the essence of this working title in the major section names of the novel, which use other musical structure terms. The final section, chronicling lazarus's return to

BPRAL22169: his childhood era, retains the original working title."

AGplusone: IIRC something only about how it appears in the chronological FH listing, and then some discussion re its musical meaning

BPRAL22169: Ok -- how detailed a comment do you want on this?

DenvToday: Very detailed. I'm here to learn.

AGplusone: earlier at pp. 16-7 just a notice. Detail the theory your expressed to me at other times and how it relates to what Gee just brought up.

BPRAL22169: I'll see if I can shorten it up.

DenvToday: I think it was Shaw who said, "I apologize for the length of this letter, but I didn't have time to write a shorter one."

AGplusone: :-)

geeairmoe2: What I was hoping to see in RAH:ARC was something on "The Stone Pillow" in the June 96 F&SF.

BPRAL22169: It's very likely RAH planned an "end" to the Future History very early as a return of LL to his birthplace/childhood. This implies that Heinlein is trying to access the circular-eternal quality of myth for the FH. this is secondarily born out by the incest material -- a cue that RAH is talking about the doings of the gods.

BPRAL22169: However, it's unlikely he planned the incest treatment as early as 1941.

AGplusone: [really? What about EE Smith?]

BPRAL22169: I think the market would bear a more "mythic" treatment in 1973 so he did what he thought he could get away with.

DenvToday: I have doubts the incest material would have seen its way into print in the forties.

AGplusone: EE Smiths 'last' novel never did, did it?

BPRAL22169: RAH said that he knew what the 7th Lensman book was from discussions with Smith, and it could not be published, probably because of the incest implied at the end of Children of the Lens.

BPRAL22169: But I don't offhand remember when CotL was published -- it may have been quite a lot later.

BPRAL22169: And certainly not in Astounding/Analog

BPRAL22169: Katie Tarrant would have had conniptions.

AGplusone: [i.e., logical next novel who have had Kimball Kinnison's decendants breeding with each other ... what the 'uplift' types in that series were after all along. "Arisa"? cannot recall their name]

BPRAL22169: Did that bring out the material you were looking for, Dave?

AGplusone: Yes!

DenvToday: Heinlein, I presume, felt that if you're immortal, the taboos of incest become less meaningful with time. If you're 1000 years old, and your mother is 1020, what does motherhood mean?

BPRAL22169: I think what it mainly means is "Thou art God" is not restricted to Stranger. Remember who else shows up in the World as Myth books --

dwrighsr: Hi everyone. I'm back. I've caught up to date on what's been going on. Keep it up.

AGplusone: Heinlein, I think thought like a stock breeder trying to improve the breed as soon as it was praticable ... certain traits should be reinforced. whether that was by inbreeding or by nurture was immaterial to him ... just my NVHO

DenvToday: RAH has a lot to answer for. SIASL is often credited with starting the New Age movement. lol

BPRAL22169: Ha! The New Age movement was around long before SIASL. In fact, exactly when the New Age started was a hot issue at about the time RAH was born.

DenvToday: But wasn't it Mediums and seances at that time?

AGplusone: (and certain other traits should be culled ... but that's a hot button issue, 'social darwinism')

BPRAL22169: Mediums and Seances are particularly related to the Spiritualist movement of the 19th century -- there was a lot more going on.

geeairmoe2 has left the room.

AGplusone: There's a lot in "It's Great To Be Back" about how the colonists on this moon colony are selected by compatibility ... and culled.

AGplusone: And a bit about how that creates a better class of folk to be around ....

BPRAL22169: Spiritualism, for example, around the time of the Civil War, was connected up with the American liberal movement. It was an attempt to apply scientific principles of electricity and magnetism to spiritual stuff.

DenvToday: Arthur Conan Doyle as entered the room.

Gaeltachta: But they have a "foot-in" if they want to return again from Earth? Been there done that?

AGplusone: Same thing in Farmer in the sky, about the tests they have to pass, yet some types avoid those tests by influence .... yes.

DenvToday: Bpral, interesting. I know, sketchily, about the spiritualist movement. But the "Thou art God" concept is uniquely New Age, isn't it?

AGplusone: But notice how hard the MacRaes try to convince the person they interview that they really are moon-types after all when they wish to return.

BPRAL22169: No -- it's Hindu and it's Transcendental.

Gaeltachta: The mention of the spaceman was interesting. He would be different to the Loonies again. Coming and going into space frequently.

AGplusone: And one thing: The spaceman who looks at the baby and tells the minister that she'll have to learn to walk sounded disgusted to me.

AGplusone: He seems himself different yet.

BPRAL22169: i.e., Neoplatonism -- another movement that was ramping up through the last halfof the 19th century.

DenvToday: True. And it became popular in this country around the time SIASL was published.

AGplusone: [two threads at once ... wanna bet they join up eventually?]

DenvToday: But I defer to you. You know MUCH more about the subject than I do.

Gaeltachta: Re. the spaceman. Was he disgusted - or sad?

BPRAL22169: The only thing i am trying to say about this is that the ideas RAH was appealing to SIASL go back a long, long way. The US was ready for them in 1960 because positivist materialism had such a deathgrip on the intellectual climate of the time that people desperately needed to hear anything sensible about spiritual matters.

AGplusone: Both but there's a tinge of irony there ...

AGplusone: they minister, if he'd really had the child's interest at heart, would have waited to return until the baby understood

AGplusone: the minister

Gaeltachta: I think I would have prferred to be the spaceman, rather than a Loonie. Would waiting have made it any easier for the baby?

AGplusone: I think so ...

dwrighsr: He may have had no choice. Many churches assign their pastors to their next position.

DenvToday: Doesn't it depend on which America you're talking about? Middle America, the America of Heinlein's youth, was deeply Christian. It still is today. It's always been the intelligensia that's been non-religious, or non-spiritual, if you will.

AGplusone: a known phenomena not a torture to an infant

Gaeltachta: Harder to adjust to weight though, the longer one has been away from it?

AGplusone: The unknown and ununderstood is oppressive ...

Gaeltachta: Or in the babies case, never experienced it?

BPRAL22169: But the Christianity of Middle America has been progressively denatured throughout this century -- until by 1960 there was no spirituality left in Christianity. Thus people began turning elsewhere -- e.g., Buddhism, Hinduism, the New Age.

AGplusone: A five year old or a seven year old would understand what she was being told about it, and might even have been able to spend time in the centrifuge like Poddy, Clark, et al.

Gaeltachta: What about circumsicion (?), should someone wait for the baby to be older and understanfs?

BPRAL22169: (I can make these threads converge now, David)

Gaeltachta: understands.

AGplusone: Go ethical question (like docking the tail on a cocker spaniel, isn't it? ;-))

Gaeltachta: How old was the baby? I don't remember.

AGplusone: Go, Bill ...

DenvToday: Perhaps. But I've always thought those movements were about rebelling against old ideas as much as they were a search for spiritualism. I was a kid in the late sixties. Sticking it to mom and dad by studying Buddhism was very appealing to us.

geeairmoe2 has entered the room.

AGplusone: infant, doesnt' speak

AGplusone: just laughs and cries

BPRAL22169: The spiritual status of a minister who has so little care for the baby -- that would tie the two threads together.

AGplusone: Who justifies first-class for the baby he reaslly has little care for ....

Gaeltachta: But does the minister have little care?

Gaeltachta: Or are we assuming? and why?

BPRAL22169: You're talking tactics now, and tactics differ from person to person. Broadly, people were looking for spiritual values in their life -- and Heinlein comes along and says "all that groks is god."

AGplusone: Baby doesn't appreciate the first class amenities

geeairmoe2: The weather seems to have cut me out in the middle of some good stuff.

AGplusone: WB ...

Gaeltachta: What's the difference between 1st class and "other"?

DenvToday: Bpral, what's happend to that search for spiritualism today? My impression is that it was a phase, not long-lasting for most people.

Gaeltachta: Better seats? Acceleration is pretty strong.

dwrighsr: The difference was that they took the direct express to earth rather than going through the slower indirect via Supra-New-York and the other space station.

dwrighsr: thinking that the longer indirect route might be too much if she couldn't adjust to weightlessness

AGplusone: RAH grew up in the 20s-30s ... perhaps a time when a lot of 'missionaries' were riding the gravy train of "Missions" to the heathen, and stealing chinese artifacts, etc., and anything else not red hot or nailed down.

AGplusone: I think he's being ironic and his 40s audience would recognize it as typical.

Gaeltachta: I agree, it sounds like a fairly lame excuse by the minister. But, he did have a basis for making the excuse. Just not a strong one.

AGplusone: If you couldn't run a parish, or got in trouble with the maiden choir mistress you volunteered for the 'missions'

DenvToday: Ah...the good old days before million-dollar lawsuits. lol

AGplusone: See, To Sail, the one who decided he'd rather be a minister than work behind a mule and tries to get (actually does) into Maureen's panties

BPRAL22169: That search for spiritual values is ongoing -- this particular culture is dying under our feet, so it's there in husks or shells. that's what a lot of PC represents, for instance. And mornic stuff like Disney's Pocahontas trying to stand for respect for other cultures. Occurred to me yesterday watching a trailer for Fantasia 2000 -- Blue Whale

BPRAL22169: have become mythic archetypes. So we have "semiotic" spiritual values. Empty signs.

AGplusone: But thus was ever so ... contributions to the 'missions' were at an all time high in the 1920s or so.

BPRAL22169: Agreed. And the charismatic ministries like Aimiee Semple macPherson.

AGplusone: Buy a little evangelicalism ... and then turn back into Babbitt, a la Hadleyville a la Clemens

BPRAL22169: Her 4 square Gospel denomination is still around -- my sister and brother in law belong to one of them.

DenvToday: Bpral, very interesting take on it. I will consider.

AGplusone: I lived within spitting distance of the tabernacale in Echo Park when I got married. He son was running it then.

AGplusone: Rolf MacPherson

BPRAL22169: "There is no new thing under the sun," saith the prophet.

DenvToday: What about at night time?

geeairmoe2: Its easier today to cling to satisfying superficial suppositions than do the hard work of digging deep and shining light into dark, possibly unpleasant places. "Values" are light that way, easier to carry. No one wants to do heavy lifting.

BPRAL22169: The prophet didn't say anything about "over" the sun.

BPRAL22169: You're in the clear.

DenvToday: lol

AGplusone: They were in the news recently. Evidently Rolf finally retired, or got "Digby'd" and they're trying for a rennaissance

Gaeltachta: I just had a thought. The O'Neil Anti-gravity device in WAWD would have been helped people in IGTBB like the MacRaes adjust back to Earth gravity.

AGplusone: It would, wouldn't it?

AGplusone: Quite a different time line with that one ...

BPRAL22169: A corollary of the observation that the gravity shield doesnt show up anywhere else in the Future History, so We Also Walk Dogs isn't really a FH story, even if it is in PTT.

Gaeltachta: Yeah. :-)

BPRAL22169: It's like -- the mineral discovered in "Plato's Stepchildren" would have shattered the Star Trek universe.

BPRAL22169: So they quietly ignored it.

AGplusone: Just as the Tunnels in Tits make it a different branch of the FH, yet, aren't there female military units elsewhere in RAH?

Gaeltachta: Also, any resemblance with O'Neil in WAWD and No Brain in NOTB?

BPRAL22169: Or the discovery late in STNG that their warp drive was carving up spacetime.

AGplusone: Omigawd!

DenvToday: I often chuckle about the Star Trek universe. They can transport matter, yet they still crawl through tubes in the starship. The transportation of matter would, logically, have thousands of other applications.

AGplusone: Does this mean no STNG2

BPRAL22169: I fervently hope so. I never liked that show.

DenvToday: I'm looking forward to "Voyager: The Geriatric Years"

AGplusone: kept rooting for the Cardasians

BPRAL22169: Generation Next was just too, too PC

DenvToday: lol David.

AGplusone: Altho it was rather nice to have Klingons as "serving star fleet officers' even if Berkely Brethed didn't like ti.

DenvToday: Actually, ST:TNG was excellent for a couple of seasons, due mainly to Melinda Snodgrass. She's a libertarian sf writer who was head writer on the show for 2 seasons.

BPRAL22169: I m ust have missed those.

AGplusone: Kept waiting for Work to open up the Captain tho

BPRAL22169: I unfortunately caught only the ones where Deanna Troi teaches us that it's ok to be a bitch if you've got a really good reason -- like you're having a bad day.

DenvToday: Well, I exaggerate when I said the seasons were excellent. There were a few outstanding episodes, those that she personally wrote.

geeairmoe2 has left the room.

BPRAL22169: I also particularly liked the disposable personal relationships.

BPRAL22169: I thought that show was execrable as to teaching values.

AGplusone: [and it's her former male side no doubt that causes her to do so] yeck!

AGplusone: Ikeep waiting for the hologram doctor in ST:V to come hit the doctor in ST:NG over the head.

DenvToday: Bpral, you missed the point. It's only okay to be bitchy and lack morals if you have a great body and big hair.

BPRAL22169: Different character -- Counselor Troi is the ship's shrink who keeps "adjusting" their personalities.

BPRAL22169: No -- that point i got. Marina Syrtis.

DenvToday: You betcha. Hubba hubba.

Gaeltachta: I'm gonna bail now folks. Thanks for the interesting discussion.

BPRAL22169: And that makes the development between Mulder and Scully so much the more interesting, doesn't it?

BPRAL22169: (I cannot believe I am actually talking about Star Trek and X-Files! Bad bill, Bad, bad Bill!)

Gaeltachta has left the room.

AGplusone: Course I liked him when he kept giving McMurphy a hard time too

BPRAL22169: So would I

AGplusone: What do we have to discuss further this hour. Wanna take break?

BPRAL22169: We do seem to have run out of Topic, don't we?

DenvToday: I was a minor fan of Babylon 5. It seemed a bit more "realistic" if we can use that word. There was still crime, dictatorial governments, slums, etc. People were still recognizable.

AGplusone: And shall we drag Labert in?

BPRAL22169: Oh, by all means.

dwrighsr: A corollary of the observation that the gravity shield doesnt show up anywhere else in the Future History, Bill. Actually not true. In 'ordeal in space' there is a throaway line where they talk about the ship being built before anyone had any idea about how to create an artificial gravity field.

labert8 has entered the room.

AGplusone: Velcome ... you haf come to haf your blood sucked!

DenvToday: Well, I must be going. Thanks everybody for the terrific discussion. See you all next time.

labert8: sounds draining

dwrighsr: Sorry for getting behind.

BPRAL22169: I hadn't picked up on that . . . of course it's not strictly speaking in the center of the FH.

DenvToday: Take care. TANSTAAFL!!

AGplusone: Mary Shelley would spin in her grave.

AGplusone: Or was she Frank ... I forget

BPRAL22169: Joe Major says the slicks stories are collateral stories not a direct part of the FH, though they were mostly not inconsistent.

DenvToday has left the room.

dwrighsr: I was thinking about how many stories have artifical gravity. TEFL, Starman Jones, CotG and others, but most of those are not in FH either

BPRAL22169: TEFL is.

BPRAL22169: It's a Lazarus Long story.

dwrighsr: Of course, I know that :-)

AGplusone: I think he's probably right about not inconsistent ... within the 'multiuniverse' anyway.

labert8: Was there art grav in Methuselah? I can't recall

BPRAL22169: it's a necessary way of handling very high accelerations.

dwrighsr: Methusaleh didn't as I recall

labert8: so maybe Andy came up with it later :-)

BPRAL22169: Seems to me the space drive in MC is more closely related to Doc Smith's "inertialess" drive.

BPRAL22169: The Skylark series.

AGplusone: Not that I remember, unless you consider that quick way to induce labor that shows up in TEFL as 'articifical gravity' ...

AGplusone: But that was merely boosting the ship

AGplusone: IIRC

dwrighsr: No, it was an artificial gravity field, not changing the boost.

BPRAL22169: Changing the boost would really screw up the navigation.

AGplusone: The operative word, now demonstrated, was "if"

AGplusone: How are your classes going this year Labert?

BPRAL22169: When you're talking about star travel within human lifetimes, you're talking about multi-g accelerations, and therefore controlled gravity.

dwrighsr: There was even a comment about Laz being the first to use an artificial field to help induce labor.

AGplusone: so then there was an artificial field in the later Howard stories ... hmmm.

labert8: BUt Bill, many ftl inventions sidestep acceleration

BPRAL22169: True -- and the Libby irrelevancy drive might do that, too. But the problem is still around. if you are irrelevant within N space where does the gravity you are using come from? So you are back to artificial gravity.

labert8: good point . unles the ship is under spin

BPRAL22169: I don't think Dora spins

dwrighsr: That was the case in 'Ordeal' and why he 'fell'

labert8: nor do I

BPRAL22169: Very early technology.

BPRAL22169: Have to keep in mind we're talking about 2000 years apart, more or less.

AGplusone: Gay doesnt spin either altho she definitely deceives

labert8: yes, but her only anti grav is in the antechamber

BPRAL22169: Yes, but Gay became Gay because Glinda the Good put a spell on her.

dwrighsr: Remember also in TNOTB, that when Gay Deciever docked in Dora. they immediately felt the gravity field

labert8: she was Gay before that, she was!! (Deety)

BPRAL22169: She was a very advanced AI before that -- but she became transcendent whenthey visited Oz.

labert8: don't tell me, tell Deety.

BPRAL22169: Never Knock Glinda!

AGplusone: Ergo, 'artifical gravity' and thus, We Also Walk is in the FH ...

dwrighsr: Yes. But! there are two many other inconsistencies. IMO

AGplusone: btw, does that plus-minus sign show on your screens?

labert8: yep

BPRAL22169: Yes, on mine. I'm using AOL as the primary.

dwrighsr: It does on mine. how did you do it?

BPRAL22169: There is also the matter of the in-system alien species.

AGplusone: OneClick

dwrighsr: Must be a MAC thing :-)

AGplusone: is

AGplusone: Was looking for the three dots in a triangle for therefore, but it doesn't have it.

BPRAL22169: :.

AGplusone: Class this year, Labert?

AGplusone: [we had a conversiona about the irony in "It's Great to Be Back earlier ... want a log?]

AGplusone: I need an e mail address that will work if you do ...

labert8: yeah, sure. you don't have it?

labert8: I'll send it to you, I have a year old or so email for you

AGplusone: no, I had a crash last year after we corresponded

AGplusone: and lost my lists

dwrighsr: Was this on Thursday's discussion?

labert8: class this year? huh?

AGplusone: No, just that little bit about the minister with the baby, David

AGplusone: Was asking how your classes are going this year?

gfoXcook: :::just finished all the lawn mowing that had to be done before everyone leaves the house for 2 weeks tomorrow, as the rain started to fall:::

AGplusone: WB, double major

labert8: on a break at the moment, start teaching summer courses July 5th. For the first time I get to teach intro to lit. Psyched

dwrighsr: Ok. I'll have this log on about thirty minutes after we finish. Check save this link. Saturday's Log

gfoXcook: intro to lit? Which lit, or lit in general? #;-}>

gfoXcook: ;::wiping wet grass clippings off my arms:::

labert8: in general. basic English II course.

gfoXcook: what grade level is English II? O_o

labert8: freshman sophomore in college

gfoXcook: ah. hm.

n1yqh a: The best part of a tech school is that there's no English requirement.... ;-)

BPRAL22169: Hasn't the introduction been effected long before this?

labert8: you wouldn't geuss it by7 the students sometimes

gfoXcook: well, there's 100-level courses at Rice, but only for people who can't pass the english entry exam.

AGplusone: English 2 at UCLA was advanced exposition

gfoXcook: My core requirements were 210, 211 (English lit from Chaucer to 1800, and from 1800 to present), and 260 (American lit intro)

dwrighsr: Not for a lot. Check out my posting on AFH about the NPR story on cheating.

gfoXcook: I'm finishing up 260 now. Ironically, I did 362 (American Lit, 1900-1940) 2 years ago.

labert8: It is a some of the schools where I teach. this is a new one, a comm college

gfoXcook: Since I did all my English major courses Senior and 5th year, they're a bit out of order. #;-}>

AGplusone: There was a Humanities 100 course offered as an entry to literature ....

AGplusone: But it included non-English in translation

labert8: Ah, now I'm placing you gfox. How'd that survey I filled out for you a ways back work out?

labert8: I'll be doing translations as well, the book required by the school covers multi-cultures

gfoXcook: Quite well. A in that course.

gfoXcook: :::giving you all the credit::: Thanks. ^_^

labert8: de nada

AGplusone: Candide and the lot .... ?

labert8: no!!

gfoXcook: that was ENGL3... er... can't remember the number. Contemporary Ethnic Poetry. My only class taught by a grad student, actually, and probably one of my top 5 faves of all time at Rice.

AGplusone: Why not. It explains a bit in Friday I think. Tending your garden.

gfoXcook: My other top 5 would include: Welding/Lathe lab.

gfoXcook: And... hmm.... a history & myth course.

gfoXcook: Arthurian Literature.

gfoXcook: And Tolkien.

labert8: I won't go that far back if I can avoid it. Students could give a damn. Thats for english majors who care.

gfoXcook: There. My 5 fave classes at Rice. Heh.

gfoXcook: so, 3 ENGL, 1 MECH, and 1 HIST.

gfoXcook: There were a couple nice Space Science courses, but they were fairly introish.

AGplusone: Slip Crichton's Eaters of the Dead in on 'em.

gfoXcook: And now, Rice is almost entirely scrapping Space Science.

gfoXcook: We had the first freakin' department in the world.

labert8: geez, hope I haven't killed that rah talk. Especially as I'm up to The Long Watch and closing on Lazarus fast.

gfoXcook: and now it's gone. Just like the huge NASA exhibit at the Houston Museum of Natural Science (huge in the 80s, now tiny, in the basement...)

gfoXcook: No one cares about space flight anymore.

labert8: unfortunately, probably true.

gfoXcook: Well, maybe not no one. But everyone THINKS no consumers/students/etc. cares.

AGplusone: X-tra credit ... oh no, we're free to talk about anything .... bring it on.

gfoXcook: And that's a vicious circle.

labert8: we hardly even hear about the space station

gfoXcook: It's up to the corporations.

gfoXcook: Without their investing in space, we're doomed. (sob)

gfoXcook: :::hates self for admitting that, but oh well:::

n1yqh a: and everybody thinks that ISS is The Space Station rather than the ninth or tenth...

gfoXcook: heh.

dwrighsr: I have a question about 'We also..."

labert8: theres no short term profit in space, so say goodbye to corporations

gfoXcook: :::should reread Friday:::

dwrighsr: I never could figure out whether or not they got the original 'Flower' and left a copy in the BM or did they make a copy which was as good as the original. Any thoughts?

dwrighsr: Did I say something wrong O:-)

gfoXcook: :::trying to figure out what the BM is::: O_o

dwrighsr: British Museum

gfoXcook: Ah. Haven't read the story. :::feels hopelessly underinformed:::

gfoXcook: I'm mostly going to attack novels this summer, though. Not too many short story compilations lined up.

labert8: I'm scanning it

gfoXcook: I was reading Grumbles from the Grave last summer, actually. But during my road trip. Lost the time for it when I got back to classes.

gfoXcook: (fortunately that's an easy book to get back into where you left off)

gfoXcook: anyway., I'm going to go swim now, and then pack more boxes.

AGplusone: Not at all. Bill wrote the British Museum and I wrote a dealer last year to find out if something like the flower actually exists.

dwrighsr: And?

AGplusone: [was saving the log]

AGplusone: Takes a while on a 75 Mhz machine

Fldax has entered the room.

dwrighsr: Hi Laurie.

BPRAL22169: Never received a reply from BM

AGplusone: Hi, Laurie

gfoXcook: and then drive in pouring rain through Houston (where US 59 is closed for bridge demolition, diverting all the cross-town, and THROUGH-town traffic around the loop), to pack up MORE stuff, and drive it back here. Ah, moving is so pointless. ^_^ See ya, peops.

AGplusone: Never received reply from the dealer either

Fldax: Hi everyone

BPRAL22169: I was supposed to talk to the ceramics and porcelain curator.

SAcademy: Hello, Laurie

BPRAL22169: Laurie, do you know SAcademy?

AGplusone: Did find all those sites I posted. Hope they were useful.

labert8: greetings, laurie

dwrighsr: Well. What about my question from the story? was everyone as confused about that as I was?

AGplusone: Sean posted a hyperlink link on a 'weeping buddha' earlier, Labert. Do you know anything about that area of sculpture or painting?

Fldax: Yes, I do.

AGplusone: They got the original!

Fldax: Hi SAcademy

labert8: nope sorry. don't know nearly enough about things eastern

AGplusone: [referring to the other object d'art in "--We Also Walk ... ]

Fldax: My Degrees are in Art History, but Eastern Art is not my area of expertise.

dwrighsr: I suspected that that was the situation. But was never really sure. I guess that they slipped in a 'ringer'. Seemed to be implied

labert8: why so sure it was the original? the doctor is told no one will be interested in claims that it was stolen

Fldax: And I shouldn't have capitalized degrees

dwrighsr: A perfect copy would have said something negative about the creative process, whereas in a museum, a less than perfect copy would probably not be examined as closely. Maybe?

dwrighsr: Does that make any kind of sense?

Fldax: I would think that a less than perfect copy in a museum _would_ be examined closely.

AGplusone: I think they wouldn't have done the deal without the 'original' ... but just having it was sufficient even if they never could tell anyone.

dwrighsr: Not if they didn't know that it had been stolen. I've heard of cases where a museum found out much later that their 'original' was a fake.

labert8: Even their reactions point to it's genuine origin. They're stunned by it the way the doctor is

dwrighsr: Does anyone think that Grace and the others were being manipulative when they said that all they wanted was permission to see it or were they being honest?

AGplusone: One thing about the art that RAH uses in his stories ... am I right ... it always has an intense emotional and visual impact of a type. Could be, David. It's a manipulative profession.

labert8: The textual impression is that they're sincere, IMO

n1yqh a: I definitely thought they were being honest...

dwrighsr: Actually. That is a silly question. Their original desire to keep it themselves seemed to give their honest opinion

AGplusone: The handling of Hogbein, the adroit dealing with the politicians

dwrighsr: I mean. they actually wanted to call off the deal and simply keep it for themselves.

dwrighsr: before they ever talked to O'Neil

gfoXcook has left the room.

dwrighsr: Off subject: You can change your font size by clicking on 'view-->edit room preferences-->General--Font' It might not take affect immediately, but will eventually.

AGplusone: Just to reiterate, we're talking the next three in the FH chronology next meetings ...

AGplusone: "Searchlight," "Ordeal in Space" and "The Green Hills of Earth"

AGplusone: Then we'll give "Gulf" from Assignment In Eternity (the precursor to Friday) a shot.

dwrighsr: I had forgotten that 'Searchlight' and 'The Menace from Earth' were in the 'Past Through Tomorrow' that I have.

AGplusone: Then back to the FH.

Fldax: Green Hills of Earth has always been my favorite Heinlein short story. I just connect with it in a very personal way.

AGplusone: If you don't have PTT, then go to _The Menace from Earth_ and _Expanded Universe_ for them.

dwrighsr: I have always sung the song to the tune of 'The Happy Wanderer'. Does anyone know that one?

AGplusone: Yes

Fldax: Yes

dwrighsr: Try singing it that way sometime and see what you think

AGplusone: There was a movie called "A Little Walk In the Sun" with a title song of the same name ... I always sang it to that.

dwrighsr: Don't know that one.

Fldax: me either

SAcademy: Don't kow the tune.

AGplusone: Long time passing ... long ago. Black and white WW II movie

Fldax: The title does sound familiar, though.

AGplusone: Move of a sad tune

labert8: for some reason I never tried putting them to music in my head. read them as poetry

AGplusone: minor keys and all that

labert8: Green Hills would probably benefit from that

dwrighsr: I have always tended to skip poems in books, but I don't do that with most of Heinlein's.

SAcademy: It should be in a major key

AGplusone: I'll need to forward t mailing list to David Wright this week for mailing of the logs out ... labert, please remember I need your addy

labert8: will do

AGplusone: Some of the verse is poignant enough for a minor I think

Fldax: Definitely in a minor.

AGplusone: Anyway, it's about that time again. Thanks for all of you coming ... next week we'll try to start a lot of posts on the three we're reading for next meeting.

Fldax: Good bye all.

AGplusone: And get some discussions going ... GHOE is one of my favorites too.

AGplusone: Please remember, everyone try to post sometime on the threads pre meeting on AFH ....

AGplusone: Night all.

dwrighsr: Hang on everyone. I'll post the link to this log. save it and check it in about 30-45 minutes. It should be available then

AGplusone: Okay ...

BPRAL22169: Post it on afh, if you don't mind -- I cannot use hyperlinks in the chat room.

dwrighsr:Saturday's Log I'll do that also.

AGplusone: Laurie, do you know how to find afh?

BPRAL22169: Thanks.

labert8: so I suppose I have to read the group

labert8: :-)

AGplusone: Yep ... :-D

Fldax: Yes, I do, thank you.

AGplusone: Danielle?

dwrighsr::Thursday's log includes the discussions prior to Thursday's meeting

dwrighsr: From AFH, that is

labert8: half of em won't remember me (chuckle) (evil grin)

AGplusone: And have a good sleep Stephen. Hope you enjoy the log when you awaken!

AGplusone: New Beginnings!

AGplusone: Night, David, SA, Mike, Bill, Danielle, Laurie, and Labert ....

Fldax: Good night, everyone.

AGplusone: Saturday, June 10, 2000, 8:04:57 PM, EDT

AGplusone: log closed

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Long Beach, CA 90807-5606

 
 

The Heinlein Society was founded by Virginia Heinlein on behalf of her husband, science fiction author Robert Anson Heinlein, to "pay forward" the legacy of Robert A. Heinlein to future generations of "Heinlein's Children."