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Heinlein Readers Discussion Group
For Thursday 03-26-2005
Topic: Least Favorite Heinlein

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Here Begin The Postings

From: LNC <reilloc@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Report of last night's Heinlein Readers Group meeting, reminder of tomorrow's meeting
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:18:11 GMT
David Wright Sr. wrote:
 > The next meetings of the Heinlein Readers Group
 >     will be Thursday 3/24/2005 @ 9:00 P.M. EST
 >    and Saturday 3/26/05 @ 5:00 P.M. EST
 > The topic for these discussions will be:
 > "Your Least Favorite Heinlein work"
 > See: http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html
 >
 > The logs for the Heinlein Readers Group discussions which took place on
 > 01/06/2005 and 01/08/2005 are now available temporarily at:
 > http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/Heinlein/AIM_02-24-2005.html
 > http://home.alltel.net/dwrighsr/Heinlein/AIM_02-26-2005.html
 > The topic for the two discussions was:
 > "Word Mastery (and More on Love) by the Grandmaster "
Speaking as the moderator, I was quite pleased at the attendance and that things moved right along with the conversation being animated and knowledgeable. There were a number of new faces and if any of you guys read here but don't post, I really enjoyed your being there.

"Orphans of the Sky" got pretty well roundly identified as "least liked" among the books with the short stories, "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag," and "By His Bootstraps" vying with each other in unpopularity.

As for individual characters, here's where the opinions seemed to really come out and toward the end of the session David Wright made a series of comments that I'm considering using as a jumping-off place for next month's topic. Thanks, Dave.

Tomorrow, Saturday the 26th, at 5:00 EST, 4:00 CST, and, what would that be? 2:00 Pacific? We'll meet again. Same place, same AOL/AIM chatroom. It'll be a shorter meeting because the Saturday meetings are but since nobody else's using the room after us, we can talk as long as anybody wants to stay around and talk.

See you then.

L.N.C.

End of Postings

Go Beginning of Posts

Here Begins the Discussion
You have just entered room "Heinlein Readers Group chat."

LV Poker Player has entered the room.

LV Poker Player: Not much of a group yet.

Reilloc has entered the room.

Reilloc: Am I late?

LV Poker Player: Yeah, everybody else got tired of waiting and left.

LV Poker Player: JK

Reilloc: Serves me right.

Reilloc: What's up, David and Don?

LV Poker Player: I just got here.

LV Poker Player: I hope some others show up.

Reilloc: How's the Michigan weather?

LV Poker Player: warming up, mid forties right now.

Reilloc: I won't ask about the Georgia weather.

Reilloc: Has to be better than here or Flint.

LV Poker Player: Was just wandering around my yard, now that the snow has mostly melted, and found something that has me puzzled as to how it ended up there. It's the hoof and lower leg of a deer. It looks like it was broken off at the knee.

Reilloc: Now, that would be the start of something interesting.

LV Poker Player: Fur and skin were still attached, so it was definitely left there this winter.

Reilloc: You know, I've noticed your posts are more narrative than they used to be.

Reilloc: Have you thought about any fiction writing?

LV Poker Player: Not consciously so.

LV Poker Player: Sometimes, but then who hasn't?

Reilloc: Seems like, sometimes, the people who do are not the people who should be.

LV Poker Player: You did not seem very impressed with my afh effort, Requiem for a Former President.

Reilloc: That's only because it went beyond derivitie.

Reilloc: derivitive

LV Poker Player: I never disagreed with that. In fact, I remember specifically warning people that it was a rip off.

Reilloc: I used to help moderate an AOL fiction writers workshop.

LV Poker Player: I have trouble coming up with original ideas. I generally just try to adapt from others, such as Requiem.

LV Poker Player: Which, as you point out, does have disadvantages.

Reilloc: The deer leg's got some possibilities.

LV Poker Player: Could be. An entire deer is one thing, but just the leg? Has me puzzled.

LV Poker Player: David, are you at keyboard?

Reilloc: Once, years ago, I helped shoot a video of the scene of a high power electrical line contact accident.

Reilloc: It was a place on top of a hill where some guys had situated their mobile home and then tried to put up a TV antenna to catch the Super Bowl.

Reilloc: The idiots tried to put the antenna on a power pole.

Reilloc: So, when I pulled up and got out of the car, there was a pack of mongrel hounds roaming everywhere.

LV Poker Player: Sounds like material for darwinawards.com

Reilloc: Ocassionally, one or two would lie down on the ground and begin to chew on the deer heads and carcasses left laying around the yard.

Reilloc: It was a pathetic lawsuit, as horrible injured as both the guys were.

Reilloc: Neither one recovered anything and the power company spent a fortune defending it.

LV Poker Player: IANAL, but I fail to see grounds (if you will pardon the term). The only negligence was theirs. Did they try to claim that there should have been "High voltage" warning signs, or something?

DavidWrightSr: Hi Guys. Just got back from fetching pizza.

Reilloc: Hi, David. Your turn for pizza today; mine was on Thursday night.

Oceanfilly30 has entered the room.

LV Poker Player: The idiot judge who let it go to trial should have been shot, or at least made to pay for the company's expenses.

Oceanfilly30: apologies for lateness

Reilloc: Hi, Steph.

Toxdoc1947 has entered the room.

Reilloc: Tox, good to have you back.

Oceanfilly30: I had to go shopping, and take my daughters with me

Oceanfilly30 has left the room.

Oceanfilly30 has entered the room.

Kultsi KN has entered the room.

Reilloc: Let's get on with the show, or at least pretend to do so.

Oceanfilly30: hello Kultsi

Kultsi KN: Hello all

Reilloc: Kultsi, how's it going?

Oceanfilly30 has left the room.

Oceanfilly30 has entered the room.

Kultsi KN: Very well, thanks

Reilloc: In fact, I think we'll pick you you, first.

PixelKittyCat has entered the room.

PixelKittyCat: hi!

Reilloc: You weren't here on Thursday, so, tell us, what's your least favorite Heinlein book?

Reilloc: Hi, Pix.

Toxdoc1947: hello everyone

PixelKittyCat: hell, I think everyone knows what my least favorite is...

Reilloc: For the record, you have to say it again.

PixelKittyCat: awww.

PixelKittyCat: okay, it's Evil.

Oceanfilly30: I Will Fear No Evil strikes again

PixelKittyCat: that is totally my least favorite.

RichardFctn has entered the room.

Reilloc: Evil's climbing on the unpopularity list.

Kultsi KN: There are none that I totally, utterly dislike, but 'I Will Fear No Evil' is definitely my least liked one

Oceanfilly30: hello Richard

Reilloc: Hi, Richard.

PixelKittyCat: I read that many don't like Orphans, but I do.

RichardFctn: Hello Everyone!!

Oceanfilly30: Orphans toppede the Thursday list

PixelKittyCat: hi!

DavidWrightSr: I don't have a *least liked one*. Some of them were '*lesser liked*' until I had read them over 5 or 6 times

LV Poker Player: I'm still standing by The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag. The fact that few people even remember it seems to say that it lacks something.

Oceanfilly30: He was the one forever cleaning his nails, David?

LV Poker Player: Yes.

PixelKittyCat: it's funny, but I do like that one.

Oceanfilly30: Then I must have read it...still don't remember details

Reilloc: Orphans seemed to contain no characters anybody found to be likeable.

Oceanfilly30: Then it's agreed...Pix is strange

Oceanfilly30: lol

PixelKittyCat: well you all KNEW that!!!

LV Poker Player: If you understood it, could you try to explain it to me? I just plain did not get it.

Reilloc: Sounds like a challenge.

PixelKittyCat: what, Hoag?

LV Poker Player: Yes.

PixelKittyCat: or Orphans?

LV Poker Player: Hoag.

DavidWrightSr: It was his only work written under the name of John Riverside and appeared in Unknown in 1942

PixelKittyCat: well, it's been a long time since I read it, all my books are instorage

Oceanfilly30: still, Pix?

Oceanfilly30: those books need loving

Oceanfilly30: lol

PixelKittyCat: and I don't recall what the stuff was under his nails

PixelKittyCat: oh agreed!

Toxdoc1947: jeweler's rouge I think

Oceanfilly30: My paperbacks are sniffing indiganantly...I triple stacked thenm to make room

Kultsi KN: didn't it have something to do with mirrors...

DavidWrightSr: It was a fantasy, "The world isn't what we think it is".

Oceanfilly30: "They do it With Mirrors"

PixelKittyCat: anyway, the whole thing was that Hoag couldnt' remember his days.

DavidWrightSr: Hoag was the 'art critic' judging the creation of our world from the artistic pov

PixelKittyCat: then those guys on the other side of the mirrors got into it

DavidWrightSr: The Sons of the Bird were left over from an earlier attempt at creation.

PixelKittyCat: and the thing that Hoag wasn't remembering is what kept him Hoag, so that when he remembered, he wasn't Hoag anymore

Reilloc: I'm really going to have to re-read it.

PixelKittyCat: and he had to destroy the world so he could start over again, I believe.

Kultsi KN: apparently, me too

PixelKittyCat: soemthing like that.

PixelKittyCat: I do love that one, makes me think of Twilight Zone.

Oceanfilly30: pretty descent synopsis...yeah I read it...but it was not memorable to me

PixelKittyCat: left a lot out, but I didn't want to totally ruin it...

Reilloc: How about the matter of things like style in the various novels?

PixelKittyCat: I am able to forget enough to totally enjoy it every time I read it.

Reilloc: For example, in Cat Who Walks Through Walls, the dialogue in that one is one of the things that's most offputting to me.

LV Poker Player: Maybe I should give it another try, with those insights.

PixelKittyCat: I go beck and forth with that one, LN.

PixelKittyCat: that's what got me into RAH.

PixelKittyCat: but I dont' always like it.

Oceanfilly30: I like unique dialogue patterns, but Cat gets on my nerves just fro the rape of Hazel's character and for Colin himself

Reilloc: The pretty dated flirtiness is just something that always seems to come off contrived to me.

PixelKittyCat: I met Hazel there.

PixelKittyCat: it was also my first RAH.

Reilloc: Okay, let's try this....

Oceanfilly30: I breifly met Hazel in Moon, then fell in love with the cranky grandma in NotB and the Stones

Reilloc: If somebody said that Time Enough for Love was his least favorite, how would you respond?

PixelKittyCat: I would be amazed.

Oceanfilly30: I would ask what about it made it such

PixelKittyCat: but then again I'd understand.

DavidWrightSr: Which part of it? There are several different sections

Oceanfilly30 has left the room.

Oceanfilly30 has entered the room.

Kultsi KN: openmouthed amazement

PixelKittyCat: and I'd wait for the answer to filly's question.

Dehede011 has entered the room.

PixelKittyCat: hello Ron!

Oceanfilly30: hey Ron

Reilloc: Hi, Ron.

Dehede011: Hi, how is the gang today

Reilloc: Just chillin'

Reilloc: Talking about what to do with a guy who didn't like TEFL>

Oceanfilly30: I was put off by the shifts in narratvie style in it the first few times

Dehede011: PixelKittyCat, is that my friend that is loved by one and all named

Pixie??

Oceanfilly30: But each individual section...I love them

PixelKittyCat: sometimes. ;-)

Oceanfilly30: I say hang such a fellow upside down over a toilet...

Oceanfilly30: and grant them a swirlie

Dehede011: Any man that doesn't like TEFL will come to a very bad end with no help from anyone but himself

PixelKittyCat: hey yeah!

Oceanfilly30: :-)

PixelKittyCat: so what's the basis of the person's dislike of TEFL?

PixelKittyCat: is it just Woody?

Reilloc: On the other hand, would you cut more slack to a Starship Trooper's hater?

Dehede011: Probably is only marginally popular with any member of womankind besides that.

Oceanfilly30: Now, Someone says they don't like Farnham's Freehold....

PixelKittyCat: I can understand that.

Kultsi KN: In fact I think there are quite a few people who don't like TEFL

Oceanfilly30: Did any of you see Mulan?

PixelKittyCat: well, now, I personally dislike ST almost as much as Evil.

Dehede011: Starship Trooper but TEFL is my ideal

PixelKittyCat: I did.

Oceanfilly30: "A Girl worht Fighting For"

Reilloc: What's the Mulan/Heinlein connection?

PixelKittyCat: ROFL!!!

LV Poker Player: A lot would depend on why they didn't like ST. If they don't like it because it espouses fascism...don't bother pulling them back out after the swirly.

Reilloc: Agreed, Don.

PixelKittyCat: it's that woman as object thing.

Oceanfilly30: there is a song that sums up the reason why women don't care for ST

Reilloc: Those are people undully influenced by the movie.

Dehede011: GA Steph

Oceanfilly30: in Mulan...Pix caught it

jilyd has entered the room.

Reilloc: Hi, Dee.

PixelKittyCat: hey Dee!

Kultsi KN: hi, Dee

Oceanfilly30: the boys are marching off to war just so they can find that girl worth fighting for

Oceanfilly30: hey dee

jilyd: Hi, all.

Oceanfilly30: I felt that flavor when I finally read ST

jilyd: ToxDoc? Interesting name.

Dehede011: You show me a wife that thinks she is just a bedroom and kitchen assessory, I'll show you a husband that thinks he only gets Fed and ______

Oceanfilly30: I did NOT catch any facism

PixelKittyCat: I just don't like that book, it feels like a "guy book".

Reilloc: It's Kervorkian on leave just to come here.

PixelKittyCat: !!

PixelKittyCat: oh wow!

Oceanfilly30: I saw an interesting way of determining eleigibilty for full citizenship

Dehede011: OH Wow??? Pixie

Reilloc: What way, Steph?

Oceanfilly30: in the face of countless millions who did not want to use the rights we think of as sacred

PixelKittyCat: just that we have Kervorkian here...

LV Poker Player: Ok, Pixel, for that reason you get pulled back out after the swirly. :-)

PixelKittyCat: oh. Thanks!!! ;-)

PixelKittyCat: Filly, I never even thought of that, I just didn't care for the book that much.

Oceanfilly30: I get steamed at people who criticize what they do not know...be it bashing Bush and they did not even vote, or saying how a war should go when they would never enlist

LV Poker Player: Seriously, I would guess that most military oriented fiction, science or otherwise, is going to appeal more to guys.

Oceanfilly30: To me, ST was a vent for RAH at those selfsame attitudes

Oceanfilly30: tell that to SM Stirling

PixelKittyCat: yes, and yes.

Dehede011: Frankly I thought TEFL and ST represented Heinlein at his best -- making his fans think things through for themselves.

Oceanfilly30: the man has a huge following...both genders, and tends to be very militant in his fiction/fantasy

GreedyCapitalist has entered the room.

Dehede011: It is just that I liked the story of TEFL better.

PixelKittyCat: if it's too science-ey, I don't like it much...

PixelKittyCat: yes, me too!

PixelKittyCat: okay, who's the greedy capitalist?

Oceanfilly30: you skip all the parts he warns are science, ehh Pix?

GreedyCapitalist: hi, I'm David

PixelKittyCat: hi!

GreedyCapitalist: first time here

Oceanfilly30: WHich David?

Oceanfilly30: ahh

Reilloc: Welcome, David.

PixelKittyCat: I don't skip, not in RAH

Oceanfilly30: welcome David

GreedyCapitalist: howdy

PixelKittyCat: I guess it's just the ray guns and rocket ships ones I don't like so much.

DavidWrightSr: Hi Dave. Glad it worked.

GreedyCapitalist: I just came across the chat room link on the website yesterday

LV Poker Player: I did use the word "most" rather than "all."

Reilloc: You have a favorite and a least favorite Heinlein, David?

PixelKittyCat: glad to have you!

Oceanfilly30: be prepared to defend both choices ;-)

GreedyCapitalist: hmm :-)

PixelKittyCat: yeah!

Reilloc: Orphans of the Sky?

Reilloc: Time Enough for Love?

Oceanfilly30: no leading, my friend LN

Oceanfilly30: lol

Reilloc: The Unpleasant Hoag of Jonathan Profession?

GreedyCapitalist: TMIAHM is favorite...

jilyd: LV, as for appreciatied ore by guys, probably turwe in general, but not every case.

Oceanfilly30: WHOO HOO

GreedyCapitalist: oh, missed that one

Oceanfilly30: Moon was my first, remains my favorite

jilyd: Military SF is some of what I like best, inteh good ones. I wish Pournelle would write more of John Christian Falkenberg, for instnce.

LV Poker Player: Once again, that is why I used the term "most," along with "more."

Dehede011: Dee, wait til I get through writing. LOL

jilyd: Yep, LV, not disagreeing, exactly, just commenting.

GreedyCapitalist: so, are you all regulars here?

PixelKittyCat: isn't that strange, that I so dislike military sf and am in this group?

PixelKittyCat: yep.l

jilyd: I htink you are right about the in general.

Reilloc: So, guys, if somebody told you that Grumbles from the Grave was his favorite Heinlein, or Take Back Your Government, what reactions?

Dehede011: Both good books.

PixelKittyCat: I'd be puzzled.

jilyd: I would be puzzled, too, .

jilyd: Not that they are unlieeable, but I would be very surprised at favorite.

jilyd: *unlikeable*

Dehede011: I would probably question the person to see if they were indeed an aficienado.

Kultsi KN: I'd say they don't know what they are talking about

DavidWrightSr: Well, along with Expanded Universe, they provide the most direct insight into who he was as a person, rather than inferring it from his works.

Reilloc: TBYG, for example, could be asserted as the definitive Heinlein uncluttered with fictional contrivance.

Oceanfilly30: true

Dehede011: I agree

jilyd: I would wonder if they had only had a small taste of RAY, and had unfortunately com first ont eh ones that wwere least suited to their taste.

PixelKittyCat: yes

Toxdoc1947: jild: I run a poison control center

Dehede011: Unless it is GftG

PixelKittyCat: hi!

Toxdoc1947: sorry about the delay - I got distracted for a couple of minutes

Dehede011: I could use a couple of good poisons.

Reilloc: Interesting, Tox...

PixelKittyCat: so what's your name, and what can I get everyone?

Toxdoc1947: I get that remark a lot

Dehede011: Yeah, Toxdoc, everyone has someone

Reilloc: Then let me ask, which Heinlein's most likely to induce vomiting which may or may not be indicated as a measure following the accidental ingestion of a toxic substance?

Toxdoc1947: usually it's something like "what poison causes symptoms like a heart attack and can't be detected opostmortem?"

PixelKittyCat: ROFL!

PixelKittyCat: oh my!

Dehede011: ROFL

jilyd: Yox, I used to be q volley EMT. I have been grateful for you and your colleagues, more than once.

Oceanfilly30: Pix, sit on your duff...and you too Dee....I'll barwench if its needed...although self serve feels lazily best

Reilloc: Coffee'd be good right about now.

PixelKittyCat: You're a true friend, filly. :-)

jilyd: Also, as you have already seen, I have what our friend Nuke describes as a black belt in Tai Po.

Reilloc: May I get any for anybody>.

Reilloc: Somebody keep the ball rolling while I make it.

Dehede011: I have a Brown Belt in cue stick and straight razor.

LV Poker Player: Why limit it to heart attack? Why not anything that looks like it was a natural cause?

jilyd: LN, you are a gracious host.

Toxdoc1947: yeah, I get those a lot too

Oceanfilly30: shall we call a quick break a tad early, LN?

PixelKittyCat: I'll have some coffee...

Oceanfilly30: so I can get the grinder working again

Reilloc: Nah, calling breaks does no good anyway.

Oceanfilly30: lol

Toxdoc1947: the common thread is that they have to be undetectable postmortem

PixelKittyCat: I've got a brown belt in computer...

jilyd: I hpe I don't have to eat any crow tonight, but my coffe may involve drink a little Crow.

Oceanfilly30: and a CSI show will tell you everything is detectable ;-)

Reilloc: Anybody need any ricin in his coffee?

Reilloc: Just to give Tox a challenge....

PixelKittyCat: not mine, maybe his --->

Kultsi KN: I've got a brown belt in the belt loops

Oceanfilly30: LOL

jilyd: LOL, Cutie.

Reilloc: Okay, back on topic....

PixelKittyCat: evil man.

jilyd: Herding cats?

leetheflirt has entered the room.

Oceanfilly30: we've touched on least favorite characters, and I'm curious if any female besides Grace rubs most people raw?

Reilloc: I cannot stand the idea of being forced to read The Rolling Stones, again.

PixelKittyCat: ooo, neat name!

leetheflirt: hi everyone

Oceanfilly30: Hey Lee

Reilloc: Hey, lee.

Oceanfilly30: Why not LN?

PixelKittyCat: um, Belle?

LV Poker Player: I've often wondered just how many "perfect crimes" get committed. You hear about the ones where people get busted in spite of their perfect scheme, but by its very nature a truly "perfect crime" will not be found out.

Oceanfilly30: what about it annoys you most?

Reilloc: Those twins.

leetheflirt: I want to warn everyone I just got back from a wake and am kinda bummed

Reilloc: Castor, Pollux, they should have stayed constellations.

Oceanfilly30: they were better off as background nuisances, I'll agree

Oceanfilly30: oh, sorry Dear

Reilloc: Whose wake, Lee?

Oceanfilly30: it's been a rough week in that department for too many friends

Toxdoc1947: gotta go everyone - hope to see you next time

Oceanfilly30: bye Tox

Dehede011: Okay,

Reilloc: Later, Tox.

Kultsi KN: cya, Tox

leetheflirt: hi Tox didn't even see you there sorry

PixelKittyCat: bye@!

jilyd: Good to meet you!

Oceanfilly30: LN, what would make the twins worht the read?

Toxdoc1947: (i'd appreciate a shout when the group convenes)

jilyd: Sorry for your loss, Lee.

Reilloc: A whip, Steph.

Oceanfilly30: I'll buddy list you

Toxdoc1947 has left the room.

leetheflirt: thanks guys

Reilloc: Professor Wright, will you put Tox on the list if you can?

DavidWrightSr: He got away before I could get his e-mail address.

leetheflirt: anyway I take it someone did not care for the Rolling Stones

PixelKittyCat: hey steph, hear that? LN wants to be whipped.

Reilloc: I asserted that....

GreedyCapitalist: I liked it.. Grace included..

leetheflirt: hmm wasn't he on on Thursday's chat?

Reilloc: Grace's on my crap list because of her bridge ineptitude.

Oceanfilly30: whips are optional

Oceanfilly30: lol

PixelKittyCat: ;-)

leetheflirt: Grace was Farnham, right?

Oceanfilly30: yep

DavidWrightSr: Yes, he was here Thursday, but I need an e-mail address to be able to notify him.

Oceanfilly30: drunkard, shrew, and inept bridge player

Reilloc: I'll post a followup to this meeting and invite people to write, providing email addresses, to be included in announcements, k?

jilyd: The female character I hate worst of all is from a short story.

DavidWrightSr: Good

Reilloc: Who, Dee?

PixelKittyCat: who's that?

Oceanfilly30: the pilot's wife in that one short?

PixelKittyCat: oh man.

PixelKittyCat: yes.

jilyd: And I don't even remmebr the name of it. It is one of the Boy Scout stories.

PixelKittyCat: it's Baby Darling's mom.

Oceanfilly30: lol

DavidWrightSr: The Black Pits of Luna

Oceanfilly30: yep

leetheflirt: Black Pits of Luna

jilyd: Bingo, Pix!

leetheflirt: lol

PixelKittyCat: ROFL!

jilyd: Can't stand her.

leetheflirt: DW types faster than I do

DavidWrightSr: How about the lady with the playboy son in "We Also Walk Dogs"?

DavidWrightSr: but GMTA

PixelKittyCat: omg.

jilyd: She is worse in her own way, withh all the sugar and vapors,than posonous Belle.

PixelKittyCat: hate that one.

leetheflirt: she was funny

PixelKittyCat: hate Belle too.

Reilloc: Belle was simply misunderstood.

jilyd: They are teh same woman, David.

leetheflirt: bELLE WAS A BITCH

PixelKittyCat: hey, Lee pulled a Dee!!!

leetheflirt: sorry I gots a messed up caps lock

PixelKittyCat:

leetheflirt: I did?

Oceanfilly30: LOL

jilyd: Not nearly good[bad] enough yet.

Oceanfilly30: Dee does it alot

jilyd: I am the world's worst typist, lee.

Oceanfilly30: her typos rival mine for frequency, but hers are funnier

leetheflirt: so do I, it's this stupid laptop

jilyd: Especially at chat or IM.

Kultsi KN: really inventive

DavidWrightSr: Get an external keyboard. That's what I dow with laptops.

DavidWrightSr: They're cheap

leetheflirt: relative term

jilyd: And in these days of wireless USB, easy to add.

DavidWrightSr: Also an external mouse, if you have troubles with the built-in ones.

Reilloc: Okay, I'm calling a break in about two minutes, for what it's worth, and starting the next hour with the theme: bad characters necessary to make good stories....

leetheflirt: oh yes, just found a wireless one

jilyd: Alas, my laptop is too old for USB.

Oceanfilly30: Kev has trouble with regular keyboards...can't stand how small they are...so I tlaked him out of a laptop

Reilloc: So don't anybody cheat and start earlier.

Kultsi KN: but the old laptops usually have a place for keyboard/mouse

Oceanfilly30: ok

DavidWrightSr: Dee, does it have a PCMCIA slot. If so, then you can get a USB adapter that fits in there.

Reilloc: I'm doing it...

PixelKittyCat: cheat???

Oceanfilly30: I'll be back...may be late...still have a car to unload

GreedyCapitalist: OR.. dell has great deals on laptops :-)

Reilloc: It's now breaktime for, like, five minutes...

Dehede011: bye Steph

jilyd: Has to have Cardbus, David. Too old.

Oceanfilly30: Oh I won't leave...you can stare worshipfully at me scrrenname

Reilloc: cough

leetheflirt: dreamer

PixelKittyCat: something wrong??

Dehede011: Yes, Ma'am

jilyd: Use PCMCIA for Compact Flash reader, but everything I can find out indicates I cant get USB that way.

Kultsi KN: I stare at it and sigh occasionally...

GreedyCapitalist: so.. how often to these chats go on?

PixelKittyCat: what are you staring at, K?

PixelKittyCat: oh, long as we want, mostly

PixelKittyCat: but officially two hours, right?

Kultsi KN: Steph's screen name

GreedyCapitalist: like weekly?

PixelKittyCat: um, why?

jilyd: They used to be pretty regular, but lately we sort of got out of the habit. I think reilloc is trying to get us back to reguilar topics and times.

PixelKittyCat: that was to K.

PixelKittyCat: yes, he's been a good chat-herd.

PixelKittyCat: ;-)

leetheflirt: can't you do personal IMs using the IM under the names list?

DavidWrightSr: We have tried to do them twice a month, but have been slacking off in the last few months. Now that Reilloc is official Chat Master, that should change

PixelKittyCat: absolutely.

jilyd: We were what? every 2 or three weeks?

jilyd: YThanks David, that's what I thought.

leetheflirt: Glad you're doing them more regularly, I have probs getting onto the usenet

PixelKittyCat: wait, you mean the name, Lee?

jilyd: Lee, give David your e-mail addy, and I'll bet he will add you to the announcement list.

leetheflirt: someone was making a personal comment to someone else...

DavidWrightSr: Aren't you already on it Lee?

leetheflirt: yep sure are

jilyd: These meetings are pretty informal. You will see short personal asides like that, but Longer conversatons usually go sidebar.

PixelKittyCat: some of us aren't able to do the sidebar thing as well as others...

PixelKittyCat: I don't multitask that well.

jilyd: Oh, so you don't have to worry about missing them, just that they are an easier opportunity thanthe neewsgroup. I get it now.

leetheflirt: oh ok sorry

Kultsi KN: yeah. I've been pretty restrained: haven't hugged the gals even once

PixelKittyCat: and I'm mad.

jilyd: Yes, pix, but you don't getinto long ones that derail the general cnversation, so that's ok.

leetheflirt: awww Kultsi you can hug me anytime ;-)

PixelKittyCat: he's being mean.

Kultsi KN: {{{Lee}}}

jilyd: You have a lot ot answer for onthat count, too, K.

leetheflirt: {{{Kultsi}}}}

leetheflirt: lolol

Kultsi KN: {{{Pixel}}} {{{Dee}}}

PixelKittyCat:

jilyd: And it is no guarnatee, but does that meanyou are a girl Lee? Not a boy Lee?

leetheflirt: as RAH put it, "As female as a cat i heat."

DavidWrightSr: Folks. Lee is the wife of SF writer Alexis Gilliland.

leetheflirt: :-)

Oceanfilly30: {{{KULTSI

Oceanfilly30: }}}

PixelKittyCat: cool, a writer....

Oceanfilly30: Long hug

jilyd: :-D Lee.

Kultsi KN: {{{Steph}}}

DavidWrightSr: That reminds me. We ought to get him to be a guest of honor here.

jilyd: :-* Kultsi.

Reilloc: Hey.

leetheflirt: actually better known for his cartoons....

PixelKittyCat: oh now Kultsi that was just wrong.

Reilloc: I hate to break up the love-n...

PixelKittyCat: you should always hug the lady first.

leetheflirt: then why do it?

PixelKittyCat: now you just hold on a second, LN

Reilloc: But I've got a serious phoney position to justify here.

leetheflirt: Alexis? Here?

PixelKittyCat: mm, well then...

Kultsi KN: Yes, Lee

jilyd: Oh, I saw you for the first time, not long ago, on afh. That Lee. :)

Reilloc: So, here's the question.

DavidWrightSr: Sure.

PixelKittyCat: um

Reilloc: Which Heinlein character would you be least likely to let hug you>

leetheflirt: hmmm, I'll ask

PixelKittyCat: easy. woody.

leetheflirt: least? Baldur

Kultsi KN: absolutely

DavidWrightSr: I should point out that when we have a guest, we can use a moderated format to keep things less confusing.

Reilloc: And I run a tight ship.

jilyd: I can't place Baldur.

Oceanfilly30: Least = Colin

PixelKittyCat: me either

leetheflirt: the prob is he just got on line a couple weeks ago

PixelKittyCat: really?

LV Poker Player: Mrs. Grew. Too much chance she would use it as an opportunity to shove a knife in my back.

Oceanfilly30: or Don Harvey

Reilloc: I get tight, seasick and puke.

DavidWrightSr: How about any of the Montgomerys?

jilyd: Oh, I'll go for that one, LV.

leetheflirt: Baldur was Waldo's dog. I'm a smart-ass.

jilyd: Or them, David.

PixelKittyCat: LN, you are sick.

PixelKittyCat: um, okay, I'm with DW

Reilloc: I'd never let Ira Johnson hug me.

jilyd: What's wrong with Ira?

Reilloc: He'd be reaching in my back pocket.

Oceanfilly30: lol

jilyd: Ah.

Kultsi KN: lol

Kultsi KN: wouldn't woody?

jilyd: Not as fast as woody would.

Oceanfilly30: which LAdies?

Reilloc: The serious top of the hour starter, though...

leetheflirt: I think Farnham's son, the letch...Duke, was it?

Reilloc: Bad characters necessary to good fiction.

PixelKittyCat: ew.

Kultsi KN: Ira Johnson's wife

jilyd: That;s an interesting one, K.

Reilloc: David, tell me, again, please, the name of the protagonist in "By His Bootstraps?"

DavidWrightSr: Bob Wilson

jilyd: We see very little of her, but enough to explain a bit of Mo's odd upbringing.

Reilloc: Okay, Bob Wilson, discussed Thursday as a guy you love to dislike but could a guy you like make a good story out of Bootstraps?

leetheflirt: I liked the way all the bad guys in Moon weren't really bad - they were just doing their jobs

PixelKittyCat: yes, Lee

Oceanfilly30: no, LN

jilyd: Except for the Chairman, who knew exactly what he was doing.

leetheflirt: sorry but who's LN?

Reilloc: me

jilyd: Reilloc.

leetheflirt: ok thanks

LV Poker Player: "Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes."

DavidWrightSr: Reilloc is Collier spelled backwards and his initials are LN

Reilloc: Lester Norman Collier III, but anybody who tells anybody else that won't get invited back.

leetheflirt: yes, that is a very important think to always keepin mind

leetheflirt: lololol

PixelKittyCat: ooops...

Oceanfilly30: lol

leetheflirt: nice knowing you......

jilyd: LOL!

Reilloc: Thing is, I never thought Bob Wilson was a bad guy.

Reilloc: I thought he was a desperate buy caught and trying just to get out.

Reilloc: guy

jilyd: He is not a bad guy, he is an oridary schmuck.

jilyd: That is the whole point, isn't it?

DavidWrightSr: You have to admit that he was very self-centered. Always out to get everything for himself, even if it meant fooling himself.

LV Poker Player: Even Belle and Mrs. Grew probably justified themselves by saying something along the lines of "I'm just looking out for number one, no one else will, and everyone else just has to do the same."

jilyd: *ordinary*

Reilloc: In a post in the pre-meeting threads, Dave Silver wrote about Don Harvey in Between Planets and speculated about where the character came from.

jilyd: I hear thunder, a storm is approaching. If I leave sudeenly, my apologies and I will see you all later, don't be alarmed or insulted.

leetheflirt: so who do you think is his most successful villain?

Kultsi KN: ain't that normal sociopath way of thinking?

Reilloc: He made him out to be a construct of the things, as I read it, Heinlein didn't like about the young Heinlein.

leetheflirt: ah that makes sense

Oceanfilly30: I'll try not to be, Dee

jilyd: What sense of successful? IN thier own aims, or successful as a character?

leetheflirt: as a character - believable

DavidWrightSr: I think sometimes that David is far too cynical.

LV Poker Player: Probably. And that may help in understanding them, both fictional ones and real life ones. Note that "understanding" does NOT equate to giving them a break or turning them loose.

Reilloc: You better not edit that out of the log, Dave.

PixelKittyCat: *snicker*

DavidWrightSr: Of course not. I've told him.

Reilloc: He's an old shyster and stuck playing devil's advocate even when the devil's already retained counsel.

LV Poker Player: Stinky Burke? (I think his real first name was Girard)

PixelKittyCat: who's that?

leetheflirt: he was a fun one - Space Cadet

Oceanfilly30: yep

DavidWrightSr: I've said it to DS and to you. I think that lawyers get that way. O:-)

PixelKittyCat: damn juvies.

LV Poker Player: The guy stafted out as a fellow cadet in Space Cadet, then caused trouble on Venus after he resigned from the Patrol.

Reilloc: Most successful villain, why not Scudder?

jilyd: Well, Jerry Farnsworth (JOB) is a villain, by most definitions, but not as RAH wrote him. :) He makes me ready to have a drink with him, and a "hellacious good time."

leetheflirt: so nice to be in a group where my repeated readings pay off....

Oceanfilly30: some good stuff to be mined in the juvies, Pix

LV Poker Player: Never appeared "on stage" for one thing. Does Scudder qualify?

PixelKittyCat: Indeed, Lee

PixelKittyCat: Filly, I just tend not to like them.

DavidWrightSr: Hey, I grew up with the juvies. They remain at my 'greater favorites'

leetheflirt: I don't think so, he was more of a plot device IMHO

Reilloc: Why not, then, Bishop Digby, who was the Scudder incarnation?

PixelKittyCat: Dee, I really do like Jerry.

Oceanfilly30: I have to 'make' myself read them

jilyd: Stinky is a very successful portrayal of a "type."

Oceanfilly30: but I find some good things

Oceanfilly30: and I liked Space Cadet

jilyd: We don't ever really see Scudder, so I don't htink he qualifies.

Reilloc: Do you have to see evil to know it?

Oceanfilly30: good point about Digby

jilyd: I like him too, but Mots poeple qualifiy Lucifer as a villain.

PixelKittyCat: true.

jilyd: *most people*

Dehede011: My favorite Juvy, Rocketship Galeilo (spelling) because that introduced me to Heinlein when it was brand new.

Kultsi KN: it's more like the real villain in JOB is Jerry's "brother"

leetheflirt: Hmm, I like the woman who turns out to be the bad guy in Podkayne - Mrs Gruel?

Reilloc: Damn, you're old.

Reilloc: I'm glad somebody brought up Podkayne because I like her.

Dehede011: Only 70, next year my mother is going to let me start dating girls. LOL

Oceanfilly30: ROFL

PixelKittyCat: ROFL!

DavidWrightSr: I'm 5 years behind you Ron.

leetheflirt: Podkayne was the original valley girl - Vallus Marinarus

leetheflirt: lol

jilyd: How about President Douglas in Stranger, for someone that is not the villain we may have thought at first, like Ben did.

PixelKittyCat: good one!

Dehede011: AH, yes David. The pleasures of youth

SubCrid Death has entered the room.

Reilloc: Well, gag me with a spoon but I still liked her.

PixelKittyCat: wow, haven't seen that name in a while!

PixelKittyCat: hi!

SubCrid Death: Hi

jilyd: Hi, Dan.

Oceanfilly30: hey Death

leetheflirt: hi SCD

Reilloc: HI, SubC

Dehede011: Howdy

jilyd: If I rememebred right.

SubCrid Death: <- Dan Poore, for those who don't recognize the SN

jilyd: Nohbody?

Reilloc: Dan, you're on.

SubCrid Death: yep

Oceanfilly30: My memory's not that Poore yet

PixelKittyCat: ROFL!

leetheflirt: ewwwwww

Reilloc: Least fav book, least fav char, please?

SubCrid Death: *throws peanuts at Oceanfilly*

Oceanfilly30:

Oceanfilly30: they're not boiled

PixelKittyCat: oh stoppit.

PixelKittyCat: we'll put some water on.

jilyd: ~ ~ ~

jilyd: tHERE, FROM BOILED PEANUT COUNTRY.

SubCrid Death: Hmm. I'd have to think about that a sec. I'd say that FF was one of my least favorite novels, though, of those I've read (which doesn't include the juveniles, at the moment)

PixelKittyCat: Dee, Dee, Dee.

Oceanfilly30: oh yeah ::sliding coffees to all who asked::

SubCrid Death: not sure on character

Reilloc: FF's gets another vote...

leetheflirt: the juvies had a lot of good stuff in them

Oceanfilly30: yep, I'm its only fan

PixelKittyCat: FF is another good one

Reilloc: If you're going FF, you'll probably go Grace, too.

jilyd: Nope, I like it.

DavidWrightSr: I liked it too, Filly

jilyd: I think I am the only person who hated BTH.

Dehede011: brb, Agua Pura

Oceanfilly30: I knew I liked you for something, Dee...must be your taste

leetheflirt: FF was bad but for putrid I still vote Orphans

jilyd: You'll have to ask Joe.

Reilloc: BTH?

Oceanfilly30: and I am in good company with the August Sr David

SubCrid Death: It's not that I hate FF, it's just that it was too much of a downer for me.

jilyd: Beyond This Horizon.

Oceanfilly30: Beyond this Horizon

PixelKittyCat: I said I liked FF, too...

Oceanfilly30: here, look at FF this way...

Oceanfilly30: {{{PIX}}}

PixelKittyCat: :-D

Reilloc: There were a couple of BTHer dislikers in the preposts.

leetheflirt: Well, that had an unbelievable premise - everyone wears guns so no one uses them?

Oceanfilly30: It is the fable of Pandora's Box

Oceanfilly30: The box is opened when Hugh Prime sees Hugh Future

Kultsi KN: why's that unbelievable, Lee?

Oceanfilly30: the hope part is founding the Freehold to combat what they knew was coming

jilyd: It was not amusing. If fiction does not amuse me, I am unlikely to stick around for anything serious out of it.

leetheflirt: because people will lose their tempers eventually

jilyd: If I want serious reading, I have plenty, don't need it in my fiction.

jilyd: OH, I htought you were talking about BTH.

jilyd: Lost the train of thoguth for a moment.

Oceanfilly30: I think we had multiple topics jsut then

jilyd: Happens.

Reilloc: We need a moderator who can keep control.

leetheflirt: lol

PixelKittyCat: YEAH!

Kultsi KN: ok, keep

PixelKittyCat: ;-)

Oceanfilly30: no, LN is a fine moderator

Oceanfilly30: it's us Yahoos that keep running amuck

Reilloc: Gentlefolk, there's half an hour of the formal session left, by my count.

SubCrid Death: Still thinking on LFC (Least Favorite Character), but Grace is probably up there on the "possibilities" list.

Oceanfilly30: it's cut short tonight?

Reilloc: That's the formal session.

Oceanfilly30: 5-8, n'est-ce pas?

Reilloc: The informal session's scheduled to end in the year 2030.

Oceanfilly30: ROFLMAO

PixelKittyCat: OH NO!!!

leetheflirt: what?

PixelKittyCat: just laughing, sorry. :-\

Oceanfilly30: never apologize for a laugh

PixelKittyCat: :-P

SubCrid Death: even if it's at someone? :-)

Reilloc: I haven't stated my resolution yet this session, I think I will now.

leetheflirt: depends on who

Oceanfilly30: in this crowd, even then

PixelKittyCat: resolution?

Reilloc: Resolved: Woodrow Wilson Smith should have been smothered at birth.

Oceanfilly30: ::ears perked::

Oceanfilly30: I refrain from comment

PixelKittyCat: oh. I knew you thought that.

leetheflirt: you don't like LL?

Reilloc: I didn't say that.

Oceanfilly30: others here, rejoin him or rebuke him

Reilloc: It's just a resolution and we can Lincoln-Douglas it or ignore it.

DavidWrightSr: Humanity's fairest flower. I loved him.

leetheflirt: aside from his sexual fixation on his mother he's ok

Kultsi KN: absolutely, but then things would have been a lot less interesting

PixelKittyCat: I can't decide if I like him or not.

SubCrid Death: I have kinda mixed feelings on WWS/LL, personally.At times he's the guy you want to buy a round for at the pub, but at other times he's the guy who owns the face you want to put your beer mug through.

Dehede011: Rosolved that Woodrow Wilson Smith should have a monument erected to his memory right where Kettle Belly's Restaurant stood in downtown Colorado Springs. LOL

Oceanfilly30: I like him prior to and including most of TEFL

Oceanfilly30: after, he's a bastich

Oceanfilly30: with no redeemption

LV Poker Player: I'm going to stick up for Grace Farnham, to a certain extent. No, I don't like her, or think she is likeable. Still, I can sympathize with her to a certain extent.

SubCrid Death: Most of the latter situation being found in the later LL-including books.

leetheflirt: his mum fixation got to me by the end of that though

PixelKittyCat: I didn't like him much in methuselah.

PixelKittyCat: oh goodness yes.

Reilloc: The raising of the spectre of Woody implicates the creation of the the Hilda Burroughs character...

DavidWrightSr: You also have to ask which LL. the one in _Methusaleh's Children_, the one in _Time Enough For Love_, or the one in _The Cat Who Walked Through Walls_ _The Number Of The Beast_?

Reilloc: Hers is the character who's more than his match but not of his bloodline.

Dehede011: TEFL

Oceanfilly30: Agreed

SubCrid Death: Well, I'm not all that big a fan of Cat or Number, personally, which perhaps skews things just a bit.

jilyd: She is my favorite female character.

Oceanfilly30: I truly feel that Hilda was prime motivator behind the circle of ouroborous

PixelKittyCat: that's funny, I like Hilda too, pretty much.

jilyd: And yet,, shge is many people's least favorite heroine type.

Reilloc: We know where Woody came from, that Hilda was written to be his superior means...what?

LV Poker Player: The reason I stick up for Grace is that she had lost touch with reality, and was not neurotypical. I'm not either, although I don't think I have ever lost touch with reality to the extent that she did when she was demanding (cont)

Dehede011: I think Hilda would eventually be the prime motivator in any group because she is an outstanding manager.

Oceanfilly30: RAH still worshipped the female?

LV Poker Player: that Hugh call a doctor for Karen.

leetheflirt: RAH had a sense of humor?

SubCrid Death: Been a while since I've read Cat and Number (see above for the reason), so I can't really comment on Hilda either way. My memory is rather less than optimal, at the best of times.

Oceanfilly30: or she was supposed to be the epitome of Ginny?

Oceanfilly30: who, several writings led me to believe was his morning and evening star

Kultsi KN: of course

Reilloc: Remember, though, what Hilda's uniqueness was compared to Woody...

Oceanfilly30: and, yes, LV, there ae parts fo FF where Grace has good points

Dehede011: The funny thing about Ginny is that she was his ideal woman long before he ever actually knew she existed.

Reilloc: To invent her, he had to invent an entirely different universe as her place of origin.

leetheflirt: I think that's why he married her

Oceanfilly30: a very scientific place

LV Poker Player: I'm not even referring to those as such. I just have an understanding when someone is out of touch with reality.

Toxdoc1947 has entered the room.

PixelKittyCat: why did he have to invent another universe?

SubCrid Death: (back to Grace) Don't recall why, exactly, but pretty much from the beginning I didn't really care for her, even befoer the bombing that knocked their shelter for a loop.

leetheflirt: hey Tox WB

Reilloc: Why did he have to invent an entire other universe?

PixelKittyCat: yeah, why?

Oceanfilly30: I am the daughter of an alcoholic...recovered now...but I loathed Grace for being the archetype my mother was

leetheflirt: this one didn't fit his needs

LV Poker Player: You weren't supposed to, at least not until Hugh explained their early married life to Barbara, and maybe not even then.

Reilloc: He couldn't allow for there possibly to be more than one Woody in his?

jilyd: LV, the problem with Grace is that she CHOSE to be out of touch with reality. It is a form of manipuation of everyone around hr.

PixelKittyCat: Weren't you talking about Hilda?

Oceanfilly30: going back and forth Pix

Oceanfilly30: Multitasking again

Toxdoc1947: thx

PixelKittyCat: I'm ignoring Dee.

PixelKittyCat: :-P

LV Poker Player: For those who are not regulars on the newsgroup, the reason I am not neurotypical is that I have a form of autism called Asperger's Syndrome. Don't worry though, I am not violent and you can't catch it from me.

Oceanfilly30: ah, girls...behave

leetheflirt: I thought alchoolism was a genetic defect

Oceanfilly30: If it is, I am fortunate

LV Poker Player: I agree with you Dee, and I assure you that my sympathy is quite limited, but still there.

leetheflirt: ithas something to do with the way you metabolize alchohol

PixelKittyCat: alcoholism follows families down, though, I can attest to that.

jilyd: I have read,= someone, Bill P?, suggesting that Grace come out of Leslyn.

Oceanfilly30: Creating a separte universe allowed Hilda to be uncontaminated by the Howrds at all

Reilloc: Leslyn wound up an alcoholic.

PixelKittyCat: ah, thanks filly.

PixelKittyCat: :-P to LN.

jilyd: Someone Robert once loved, but whose self-destructive behavior wnet too far.

Oceanfilly30: Though, I did feel that it was a cheap trick to make their longevity equivalent to the Howrards

Reilloc: Was it contamination, Steph, or a specific point?

Oceanfilly30: the point of they're being completely unrealted?

Reilloc: Maybe there's more than one way to get to the Woody paradigm...?

Reilloc: Or paragon.

Oceanfilly30: ahh, I'm being obtuse

Oceanfilly30: good point

Reilloc: Interestingly, the question might be, "is that 'more than one way' only by being female?"

Oceanfilly30: I don't think so

Oceanfilly30: I cam to Juvies and the shortstories late

Reilloc: It took Woody 2,000 years but Hilda got there a lot faster.

Oceanfilly30: but I see echoes or foreshadowings of LL in some of his short heroes

jilyd: Lee, I am not sure what is the basis of alcohoism. Wouldn't surprise me if it is the combination of a bunch of things.

jilyd: But whether to drink is a choice, and whether to be a manipulative user of other people is a choice.

Oceanfilly30: hold on...Mom is trying to kill Kev's puter

Oceanfilly30: brb

leetheflirt: oh of course, but there is a strog genetic element in it

Dehede011: There is a story told that the alcoholic brain contains the same trace chemical as the brain of a heroin addict.

leetheflirt: but yes, you choose to drink, no question

Dehede011: I agree Jilyd

Toxdoc1947: yeah - there's a little to the generic theory, and a little to the abberant metabolism theory but there's a lot unknown

Kultsi KN: metabolizing alcohol into endorphins

jilyd: More than the drinking itself, there is teh attitude about other people that is so very much like most addicts.

Oceanfilly30: I am back

jilyd: I have heard AA people describe someone who is NOT drinking, but still having the attitude and treatment of others, as a "dry drunk."

leetheflirt: and part of the prob is alchohol is easily available

Dehede011: Yes, it is very noticeable that certain drug users justify their drugs exactly as alcohoics do their alcohol

Oceanfilly30 has left the room.

Oceanfilly30 has entered the room.

jilyd: Grace would be the epitome of a dry drunk, even if she quit drinking.

leetheflirt: but Grace would have been weak no mattrer what - she needed to be for the story

Reilloc: Having Hugh as a husband drove Grace to drink?

Oceanfilly30: yeah, otherwise, Hugh is a cheating bastich

Oceanfilly30: Hugh saw himself as part of the reason

leetheflirt: I think not being needed drove Grace to drink

jilyd: She is more than merely weak, she is manipulative and completely self-absorbed.

Dehede011: Which is totally unfair for Hugh to do

Reilloc: Not being needed? Who's fault is that?

Dehede011: No, blaming himself for her problem is unfair.

leetheflirt: hers

jilyd: I think you are right, lee, but as you guys ar indicating, she put her ownself in that "unneeded" box.

Reilloc: She should have made herself more indispensible?

LV Poker Player: I agree with Barbara on that. Even in the time frame that the novel was written, divorce was possible, and she should have done so if Hugh was all that hard to live with.

jilyd: More useful.

leetheflirt: anyone can find a place where they're needed

Reilloc: She's human, so to speak.

Oceanfilly30: even against you rown wishes at times

leetheflirt: well I think Hugh was a prime bastard

Reilloc: How can you make yourself needed if you can't keep up?

jilyd: Right, Lee. If she was not needed toa dvance Hugh's career, she could have found something worthwhile in her own eyes.

Dehede011: I never realized this but I think a lot of this has to do with Heinlein and his own unresoved problems with alcohol and his outcome with Leslyn

leetheflirt: volunteerism was VERY big then

jilyd: Yes it was, and probably bwecause of "Unneeded" wives whose children were no longer young.

Reilloc: What are we supposed to conclude after getting to know Grace?

LV Poker Player: One thing pointed out on afh is that none of the characters in FF came out looking all that well.

Reilloc: That she's fatally flawed, in and of herself?

Oceanfilly30: no, none of them do

Oceanfilly30: could we call it his Comedy of Flaws then?

jilyd: Aren't we all? Fatally flawed?

Reilloc: Not me.

leetheflirt: that she should have relied more on herself than on her husband

Reilloc: I'm not dead, yet.

Dehede011: After getting to know Grace -- if alcohol is a problem for you then in any large city there will be an open meeting that non alcoholics can attend and learn

jilyd: But Grace's flaw and her circumstances meshed disastrously.

Oceanfilly30: Mst humans are not "fatally" flawed

SubCrid Death: Well, "fatal" if you realize that life is a terminal disease, maybe... ;-)

Dehede011: Sorry, an open meeting tonight conducted by AA

leetheflirt: well, what do you expect, she's a character in a story, of course she meshed

jilyd: Flaws with the fatal potential, depending on what circumstances we run into and how we face them.

Oceanfilly30: hmm, I still do not see it as a "most" circumstance

Reilloc: As immoderator among the polarized and polarizable, I hereby call a five minute moratorium on paying attention to anything I might say.

leetheflirt: don't forget these people are made up in order to work in a stoy, they are not real

leetheflirt: we were paying attention to what you said? ;-)

Reilloc: See?

Oceanfilly30: but we are speaking of how the characterizations work, Lee, we must suspend disbelief and look at them in their reality

jilyd: What who said? ;)

Reilloc: I'm getting coffee and I'll be back.

Oceanfilly30: coffe to all

SubCrid Death: The "flawed" bit I have no arguments against, I just don't see everyone ("Aren't we all?") having ones that are fatal (not the same fatal flaw)

leetheflirt: yes of course, but these are people there for an author's convenience

Kultsi KN: mine with Bushmills, brown sugar & whipped cream, please!

leetheflirt: hmm, myself, I'm getting a bheer brb

SubCrid Death: hrm, perhaps I need to edit more carefully. Feel free to ignore the ending parenthetical comment

Oceanfilly30: It could very well be that FF is a therapy book...most atuhors indulge at least once

Oceanfilly30: I'll be right back too...iced coffee ran out

SubCrid Death: (good thing I just set up my caffeine IV before turning on Trillian...)

leetheflirt: swdcBHYAKM7IU/'[;

Kultsi KN: hmmm... more and more people _not_ using AOHell client

jilyd: MY upstairs airconditioning has quit, and I don't think I can stick around up here.

jilyd: ????, Lee

Oceanfilly30: cat or child

SubCrid Death: What, companion animal decided to tapdance on your keyboard, lee? :-)

Oceanfilly30: as mine added all the spaces

leetheflirt: OH HELL

leetheflirt: Pest the POstCat sorry people, she does that

Oceanfilly30: mine just bites my fingers as I type...odd gibberish is bound to be the shining boy

Oceanfilly30: Dee...go get cool

Oceanfilly30: lol

jilyd: Lee, she types as well as I do, just ask Pix and Filly.

SubCrid Death: As for not using the AIM client, also on Y! IM and ICQ, just less of a hassle for 1 messaging program than 3 (one of which tends to not play nicely with my system)

jilyd: I wish I could share with you guys who are still frozen.

leetheflirt: Pest has on occasion actually deliberately posted, she likes to se if she pushes THAT stuff shows up THERE. Very annoying cat

Kultsi KN: I use gaim for the same reason

Oceanfilly30: One of these days I'll find an alt provider I like well enough to ditch AOHell

Oceanfilly30: People PC, Earthlink, And netzero irked me

jilyd: See tpu all later.

jilyd has left the room.

Oceanfilly30: later dee

leetheflirt: bye dee

Oceanfilly30: I just want a plain independent interent service provider

Oceanfilly30: just let me connect, I'll dod the rest

Dehede011: I forgot a historical factor in re FF and Heinlein, also Leslyn

SubCrid Death: I wish there was a practical broadband option besides BellSuck^H^H^Houth...

Oceanfilly30: hah!

SubCrid Death: at least one in my area

Kultsi KN: haven't you got any in your area, Steph?

LV Poker Player: I finally gave up on AOHell when they stopped carrying newsgroups.

Reilloc: Okay, coffee's here, cat's off my stomach, time to start hour three of the Robert Heinlein Readers Group online meeting.

Oceanfilly30: my only option is Direct Way...which is no otpion, as I do online RPGs

Reilloc: Oh, you started without me...

Reilloc: Well, good...

Dehede011: AA started in the 30s I believe. By the time Heinlein and Leslyn were having their problems there wasn't all that much known

Oceanfilly30: and, no, I have not found an indy for my town or neighborhood

Dehede011: At least I think that is true

SubCrid Death: (There's also Earthstink ADSL and Charter cable, but past experience with both has soured me on them)

Reilloc: By the way, attendees, would you all please suggest some topics for future chats, please?

Oceanfilly30: 1935

Reilloc: Okay, next month, we'll discuss 1935.

Oceanfilly30: AA began in 1935, according to their website

SubCrid Death: heh

Reilloc: Hell of a year.

Dehede011: And spread slowly

Oceanfilly30: (I live off a dirt road...too far from phone switch, cable won't bother

leetheflirt: Future subject:Which of RAH's heroes/heroines was most/least successful?

Dehede011: Gotta run folks. Bye

Reilloc: Ron, thanks, again, for coming.

Reilloc: Keep writing.

leetheflirt: Which would best succeed as a miniseries?

Oceanfilly30: Future Subject: Has RAH's writing impacted your personal beliefs; if so, how?

leetheflirt: Bye

Dehede011: Thank, y'all for having me.

Oceanfilly30: bye ron

Dehede011 has left the room.

Reilloc: You've been had.

Oceanfilly30: me? LIkely at least twice 8-)

Reilloc: Which would best succeed as a miniseries and keep the RAH flavor?

Kultsi KN: lol

Oceanfilly30: ooh, good one...of course, we'll do a casting call thread for it

leetheflirt: is it possible to translate the worksinto film at all?

DavidWrightSr: Most of the Future History stories, I think.

Reilloc: The Menace from Earth.

LV Poker Player: I think any of them COULD keep the flavor, given competent writing and direction. As to whether they could do that and succeed commercially, that might be another matter.

Reilloc: That's the question, Don.

Reilloc: Would Heinlein sell these days on the screen?

Oceanfilly30: Stranger would win critical awards...but lsoe most audiences

Kultsi KN has left the room.

Oceanfilly30: Don't laugh or cry, but I think Job could be worked up well

Reilloc: Here's one I'm toying with:

Reilloc: Why no robots in Heinlein?

Oceanfilly30: I have thought that myself

LV Poker Player: Speaking of commercial success, I thought the makers of the ST movie were stupid. Heinlein fans could have made a signicant part of the ticket sales, and they chose to deliberately alienate us. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Oceanfilly30: and I understad that his relationship with Asimov went back and forth at times

leetheflirt: The Door into Summer wa robots

Reilloc: How about: if RAH had anticipated the proliferation of personal computers and the www, what writing outcome differences?

Toxdoc1947: you could probably jazz up the stones enough to sell

Oceanfilly30: hell, you could jazz up several of the juvies

Oceanfilly30: but not necessarily retian enough flavor

SubCrid Death: Err, PM, not PN

leetheflirt: one of the things amazing about Moon is that despite the retro computers it still works

Reilloc: Thing is, LV, if they'd done that and sold, what? 500 more tickets how many sales would they have lost to people looking just for entertainment?

SubCrid Death: (like I said, need better editing)

Reilloc: Moon would work because of the revolutionary theme but it's dollars to doughnuts the rhetoric would get cut.

LV Poker Player: Remember what I said about competent writing and direction? It's there job to make it entertaining, and I don't think it would have been all that hard to do so while staying faithful to the novel.

Oceanfilly30 has left the room.

Oceanfilly30 has entered the room.

Kultsi KN has entered the room.

leetheflirt: I would love to see RAH's reation to reality TV

Oceanfilly30: Well...I enjoyed the animated Red Planet...not book faithful, but still felt HEinlein to me

leetheflirt: reaction sorry

Reilloc: Survivor on the Moon.

SubCrid Death: besides "shoe through the screen", lee? :-)

LV Poker Player: I have no objection whatsoever to cutting rhetoric, in Moon, ST, or any other movie adaptation.

leetheflirt: lol

Oceanfilly30: I'd like to see Revolt, to be honest

Reilloc: Fifth Column?

Oceanfilly30: but, I have been on the receiving end of an increase in Christian morality the past few years

leetheflirt: or "If This Goes On,,,"

SubCrid Death: Sixth, not Fifth

Reilloc: Seventh. Hey, I'm only the ignorant moderator.

Oceanfilly30: Fifth Column is a villain group on my game, lol

LV Poker Player: I have been advocating for a long time a screen adaptation of The Green Hills of Earth.

Toxdoc1947: fifth column might work

Reilloc: Menace is made for GCI.

LV Poker Player: Maybe even made for CGI?

Kultsi KN: chinese style

SubCrid Death: I doubt 6C would work, though. At the very least the "bad guys" of 6C would have howls of "racism" from LA to NYC.

leetheflirt: oh yea

LV Poker Player: Unfortunately, I think SCD is right.

Oceanfilly30: yes

leetheflirt: going blank here - the hayseed kid who sneaks himself on a

starliner as crew....?

DavidWrightSr: Starman Jones

Oceanfilly30: Moon would lose a bit in translating, but could very well be done and make money

LV Poker Player: "MacDougal is dead. This is Rhysling, on watch. Stand by to record!" Done properly, that could be one of the all time great screen lines.

leetheflirt: that one might work

Kultsi KN: I think Steph meant 'if this goes on' aka 'revolt in 2000'

Oceanfilly30: yes

Reilloc: This discussion goes, naturally, to favorite works and characters, and vice versa.

Oceanfilly30: sorry, I have the novel edition

SubCrid Death: You can't change the bad guys (like the movie adaptation of Clancy's The Sum of All Fears did, changing the bad guys from arabs to nazis) enough to get away with it and still keep sufficiently faithful to the story.

leetheflirt: I don't know that the all-powerful Christian right would care for it

Oceanfilly30: I was just thinking it is Patriot on the moon...TMiaHM

Reilloc: Patriot Act on the moon?

leetheflirt: huh?

SubCrid Death: No, as in the Mel Gibson movie "The Patriot"

Oceanfilly30: yes

leetheflirt: ah gotcha

Oceanfilly30: which one would neve work onscreen

Reilloc: Okay, time to jump start the discussion...

Reilloc: Let's see....

DavidWrightSr: IWFNE would be extremely difficult

DavidWrightSr: if not impossible

Reilloc: Consider your favorite RAH character and compare him/her to your least.

leetheflirt: I rteally think most of the works depend too much on the atual philosiphizing in the books to work right on screen

Oceanfilly30: Waldo to Hilda?

Reilloc: What are the biggest differences, in your minds?

Reilloc: Least fav's are weak, right?

Reilloc: Weak in the classic RAH mold.

DavidWrightSr: That's why I suggested the TFH. Very little direct until you get into the very later ones

leetheflirt: the baddies lack imagination

Reilloc: The baddies specialize in being bad.

leetheflirt: lolol

Reilloc: Specialization is for insects.

SubCrid Death: Erm... "TFH"?

DavidWrightSr: THe Future History

SubCrid Death: (time to change the caffeine IV...)

Oceanfilly30: you know, Hilda and Waldo both share a selfishness

Reilloc: True.

Reilloc: And Waldo gets better.

leetheflirt: all his characters are to an extent selfish

Oceanfilly30: But Hilda's can be directed toinclude others

Reilloc: They're at least not selfless.

leetheflirt: true

leetheflirt: OK, I need to do dinnerish stuff - see you guys

Oceanfilly30: see ya lee

Kultsi KN: cya, Lee

leetheflirt has left the room.

Oceanfilly30: feel free to IM outside the meetings

Reilloc: Can anybody seeing Woody talking seriously the order, "That there's the tree of liberty, jump in and fertilize it with your rotting corpse?"

Oceanfilly30: too slow

Oceanfilly30: no really

Toxdoc1947: already been done and the movie didn't have the line

Reilloc: In the abstract, though.

Kultsi KN: I can really easily see woody fertilizing it in another way...

Reilloc: On the one hand, Woody's the undisputed epitome of the RAH character but, on the other, he's not about to give his own life for the abstract notion of liberty.

Oceanfilly30: lol

Oceanfilly30: breeding up further examples of humanity

Toxdoc1947: he'd con someone else into doing it

Oceanfilly30: you know...Woody is like the boys in ST

Reilloc: So, which is more to be admired, if either?

Oceanfilly30: fighting for his girl's concept of duty rather than liberty itself

Reilloc: themefromjeopardy

Kultsi KN: isn't that the way with most guys

Reilloc: Time's up, pens down.

Oceanfilly30: I can't decide

Reilloc: Let's see what our contestants wrote.

Reilloc: So far, only Stephanie's got the correct answer.

Oceanfilly30: ::: :::blank slate

Oceanfilly30: lol

GreedyCapitalist has left the room.

GreedyCapitalist has entered the room.

Reilloc: What's to be admired depends on the fictional and literary outcome to be accomplished.

SubCrid Death: :-?

Oceanfilly30: good one, LN

Reilloc: Now, by my updated timekeeping, this is really the last, formal half hour of the discussion for this month.

Reilloc: So, turn up the heat, guys, and pull out all the stops.

Reilloc: Let your hair down and speak your mind.

Reilloc: I'll start.

Oceanfilly30: ok

Reilloc: Woodrow Wilson Smith is a character to be disliked because he makes it impossible to suspend disbelief long enough to swallow that he could exist.

Reilloc: Further, it took him two millenia to be worth a hoot.

Reilloc: I'll take all this as stunned silence.

Kultsi KN: are you talking about me?

Oceanfilly30: I was frozen a sec

Reilloc: Taxi Driver.

Oceanfilly30: I think you make a valid point, LN

DavidWrightSr: Well, I disagree. I think that he was believable in spite of the impossibilities.

Oceanfilly30: I did not say his point applied to me

Oceanfilly30: but then again, I would never wish for immortality...merely a few extra healthy centuries jcgsmtop1 has entered the room. jcgsmtop1 has left the room.

Reilloc: Is the finest flower of humanity the most human of entities or the most perfect of constructs?

GreedyCapitalist: what is not believable? his character? or the details of his life?

LV Poker Player: Once you accept his longevity, I think he is believable.

LV Poker Player: Accepting things like longevity is part of science fiction.

Reilloc: It only worked in a Mel Brooks/Carl Reiner skit.

SubCrid Death: As for the suspension of disbelief thing, honestly it never really occured to me to question it.

DavidWrightSr: Remember, there are a lot of *thought* to be impossibilities at least at this time.

starfall2 has entered the room.

Reilloc: Hi, Jackie.

Oceanfilly30: late to the party Jackie

starfall2: hi

starfall2: just got back home from dinner

Reilloc: Leftovers?

Reilloc: Pass them around.

starfall2: leftovers shall sustain me at school ^_^

DavidWrightSr: Before we end. Does anyone not know how to create a shortcut to the room?

Oceanfilly30: I do not fell LL is likeable...however, he is not unbelieveable to me

Oceanfilly30: I just disagree with thinking he is the finest flower of humanity

DavidWrightSr: Neither did he ;-)

Reilloc: David, would you please review how to create an AIM shortcut to the room?

Oceanfilly30: It is to the Howards that he is god on earth...regular humans could have cared less likely

Oceanfilly30: if you are on AOL, you can drag the heart in the main bar to your toolbar

Reilloc: That's what I do.

DavidWrightSr: If you are on Windows. simply go to File and then Create Shortcut. If this won't work, then you can always invite yourself to a chat and rename the room to Heinlein Readers Group chat. Of course, you have to have your own name in yo

DavidWrightSr: your buddy list

GreedyCapitalist: or you could type it..

DavidWrightSr: The link on the Archives page doesn't work properly for XP users.

Oceanfilly30: damn xp

Oceanfilly30: lol

SubCrid Death: Hmm. Might be looking in the wrong place, but for Trillian (v0.74, as 3.x made me want to punch out the screen) it doesn't look like there is a chat room shortcut option.

Oceanfilly30: actually, aside from most of my older software hating it, I have liked XP best so far of Windoze

Reilloc: I don't think I can invite anybody from where I am inside AOL, either.

DavidWrightSr: Yeah, I don't know that it works for anything except AIM

starfall2: i'm not sure about the older Trillian. i'm using the new version of it

starfall2: but the new version of Trillian has an option to join a chat room. so does Gaim

Oceanfilly30: goodness, must cook and make easter eggs...grr...

SubCrid Death: I tried v3.0, I was very much not impressed with the geometric bloat from 0.74.

Reilloc: Now, in the last, formal 15 minutes of this meeting, I open the floor, as though it weren't already, for any comment on any topic, related or unrelated to this session.

Oceanfilly30: LN is a wonderful moderator!

Reilloc: Shucks, folks, I'm speechless.

LV Poker Player: Going way back in the discussion, to lack of robots. There was one in Have Space Suit Will Travel. Don't tell a robot that if it wants you to come, it will have drag you, because that is just what it will do. :-)

DavidWrightSr: He's doing a good job.

starfall2: Very good job.

Reilloc: He deserves a raise.

Oceanfilly30: twice his salary now?

Kultsi KN: ok, 100% raise

DavidWrightSr: 0 to the nth remains zero 8-)

SubCrid Death: Let's see...double of $0 is...

starfall2: I'll pay him 5 times what i'm currently paying.

starfall2: ^_^

Oceanfilly30: very generous of you Jackie

Oceanfilly30: lol

starfall2: haha

GreedyCapitalist: I am using trillian 3.1 now btw

starfall2: me too

Oceanfilly30: David, did we ever hold a formal chat on authors we deemed under the influence of RAH?

Reilloc: LV, get with me on the robots idea, would you?

starfall2: it's running very well on both of my computers

LV Poker Player: Get with you in what way?

Reilloc: Well, don't show up at my house.

Reilloc: I'd have to clean.

Oceanfilly30: lol

starfall2: hehehehe

DavidWrightSr: Well we had a number. Poul Anderson, Jerry Pournelle and a couple of others. check the archives.

Oceanfilly30: I could not recall, though I did egg on that particular thread awhile back

LV Poker Player: The comment about HSSWT was just something I happened to remember at the time. I do agree that they are rare in Heinlein, but not nonexistent.

Oceanfilly30: very unimportant

Reilloc: Beware the stobor.

Kultsi KN: no

LV Poker Player: I think the stobor was just a coincidence, not robots spelled backward. Coincidences do happen.

Oceanfilly30: I wonder if RAH felt that humanity as a whole would be resistant to common interaction with robots and PCs?

Reilloc: Careers have been made on coincidences.

DavidWrightSr: http://heinleinsociety.org/readersgroup/index.html for the archives.

Oceanfilly30: explaining the lack of them in the stories?

Oceanfilly30: thanks David

Reilloc: Who'd like to see Panshin as a guest?

SubCrid Death: It's not that 3.0 didn't work, it's just that it didn't work for me. feeping creaturitis annoys me, in general. Likewise resource grabs and clunky interfaces (not the skin, I mean the menus and such)

DavidWrightSr: If you are on XP and need the link from that page, copy it and change the 20%s to spaces.

Oceanfilly30: I would, actually

Oceanfilly30: I wish to read his book

Reilloc: I've got Rite of Passage on PDA.

DavidWrightSr: It's available online. I will boycott any discussion that he attends.

Oceanfilly30: But then, I usually try to read three sources when researching people

Oceanfilly30: an autobio, a favorable bio, and an unfavorable bio

Oceanfilly30: I am probably in the minority

Reilloc: I just free associating.

DavidWrightSr: Panshin's ideas about Heinlein are just as reasonable as those which claim him to be a fascist

Oceanfilly30: I'd actually like to see Bill or Joseph or .... ooh, can't remember the other one

Oceanfilly30: Nitro?

SubCrid Death: Ok, time to put on a dazzling display of ignroance. :P Who's Panshin? I vaguely recall mention of him in AFH, but not enough to understand why some might dislike him

Oceanfilly30: here to discuss their work on Heinlein

Reilloc: Who'd like to see Spider Robinson as a guest?

Oceanfilly30: YES!

DavidWrightSr: i.e., not worth a damn. He has spent the remainder of his career trying to defend his crazy notions

Kultsi KN: me

LV Poker Player: Second Spider.

SubCrid Death: Spider? Hell yeah. :-)

starfall2: YES!

Oceanfilly30: haven't managed to read Spider's stuff, but like his personal stuff and reveiws

Reilloc: I'll see what I can do.

DavidWrightSr: We will probably want to get him *after* he finishes the book based on RAH's outline.

Reilloc: Who'd like to see my ex-wives as guests?

Oceanfilly30: are they pretty?

Oceanfilly30: lol

DavidWrightSr: If you haven't already seen them, read the two tributes from Spider about RAH in _Requiem, A tribute...."

Reilloc: Pretty informative.

SubCrid Death: (ISTR that SR is a machead... does AIM have a Mac version?)

Kultsi KN: multiple-choice?

Oceanfilly30: I read them both

Oceanfilly30: yes it does, hence David Silver's occassional presence

Toxdoc1947: mac has ichat I'm using it now

DavidWrightSr: I can't imagine anyone who would have the bad taste to divorce you LN. O:-)

DavidWrightSr: Not to mention 2 of them.

Oceanfilly30: that is a matter of poor taste

Reilloc: Who's like to see my ex-wives and Alexi Panshin in a Texas Deathmatch inside a metal cage?

Oceanfilly30: ROFL

DavidWrightSr: I wouldn't wish Panshin on anyone.

Reilloc: Okay, I'm proposing to adjourn this formal meeting.

Oceanfilly30: that bad

starfall2: your ex-wives would have to be pretty bad to deserve Panshin

Reilloc: They were my rites of passage and I, theirs.

Oceanfilly30: I could drum up some comic book talent, but they'd be off topic, likely

Oceanfilly30: except possibly Peter David

LV Poker Player: Can we include my ex?

DavidWrightSr: As I said, his works are on-line. Read them if you have the stomach, but don't take my word for it.

Reilloc: I hereby call for voices in opposition to the suggestion for formal adjournment.

Oceanfilly30: David, your reaction speeks much

Oceanfilly30: second closing of the log

Reilloc: Professor, will you, please, note the closing of the formal log of this March, 2005, meeting?

DavidWrightSr: Log Officially Closed at 7:57 P.M. , but don't let us stop if you want to go on.

Reilloc: I really appreciate your coming, all of you.

DavidWrightSr: Just don't expect your words to be immortalized.

starfall2: sorry about not showing up earlier.

Reilloc: Now, Jackie...

SubCrid Death: Hrm. Why is it the stores around here only put the bigger bags of Doritos on sale? I can scarf it down pretty quick, but I still seem to never finish off a bag before they start getting stale.

DavidWrightSr: I'll have the logs for these two meetings up on a temporary location by tomorrow night or monday at the latest.

RichardFctn: Bye all!!

Kultsi KN: {{{Jackie}}}

Oceanfilly30: bye

Reilloc: Bye, Richard.

RichardFctn has left the room.

Kultsi KN: the other sweet ones got hugged immortally

Oceanfilly30: {{{KULTSI}}}

starfall2: you ought to thank kultsi - he's the reason i remembered there was a chat ^_^

starfall2: {{{kultsi}}}

Oceanfilly30: I started to chat you but your away was on

SubCrid Death: Anyway, I'm heading off to do stuff elsewhere. Hope I didn't waste too many electrons for others.

Oceanfilly30: and yes, I do have you buddied

Oceanfilly30: bye dan

Kultsi KN: cya, dan

starfall2: me? i was signed off of this computer - you got my other computer, about 60 miles away

Oceanfilly30: lol

starfall2: hehe

Oceanfilly30: that's funny

SubCrid Death: *poof*

SubCrid Death has left the room.

Oceanfilly30: I played catcher...every one I saw logged on I invited

Oceanfilly30: chuck krin logged in and out too fast, but everyone else came!

starfall2: i don't suppose the chat'll still be going on when i accept that invitation.....

starfall2: :-P

Oceanfilly30: lol

Oceanfilly30: well, pizzas to bake, and eggs to boil

Oceanfilly30: so ttfn

Oceanfilly30: good chat, LN

starfall2: bye!

Reilloc: Thanks, Steph.

Reilloc: See you all next month or sooner.

Oceanfilly30 has left the room.

Kultsi KN: cya, Steph!

Reilloc has left the room.

Toxdoc1947 has left the room.

starfall2: is PixelKittyCat somebody new? or a new name for Pixel?

Kultsi KN: my computer went an hour towards the summer three minutes ago

DavidWrightSr: Daylight Savings Time?

Kultsi KN: yup

starfall2: wow, daylight savings time already?!

Kultsi KN: yes

DavidWrightSr: He's in Finland. Time is faster over there

LV Poker Player has left the room.

Kultsi KN: it's pretty light at 0600 when I normally wake up

Kultsi KN: when do you get yours?

starfall2: ahh.... i've got a few more days before daylight savings time

starfall2: april 3. when i'm already going to be tired from going to a con.

DavidWrightSr: Night folks. I am going to sign off.

Kultsi KN: it would be too easy if everybody did it at the same time...

Kultsi KN: cya, david!

starfall2: goodnight!

DavidWrightSr: Do svidanije! Auf wiedersehen!

End of Discussion

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