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Heinlein Reader's Discussion Group

Thursday February 15,2001 9:00 P.M. EST

The Worlds of NOTB

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Here Begin The A.F.H. postings

==========================================================================

Just a few thoughts on this....

NOTB is crammed full of references to other books and authors. Listing them would take almost as much paper as the book itself :-) The very first sentence is,

"He's a Mad Scientist and I'm his Beautiful Daughter."

This is a reference to the pulps ( and, I suppose, to films like Forbidden Planet) but Heinlein isn't satisfied with that; the BD is named after Dejah Thoris, heroine of ERB's Barsoom novels. Even more layers; she marries the same man that Dejah did ( well sort of). The only thing that puzzles me is why Heinlein made their first child a girl instead of a boy; John Carter and Dejah Thoris's first child was male.

Later in the book, when the four adventurers are beginning to see a pattern in the worlds they visit, Hilda asks them to list their 20 favourite fictional worlds and combines them to produce a list of nine worlds common to all. If we look at those they make interesting reading;

Hobbits

King Arthur

Wonderland

Gulliver's Travels

Oz

Pellucidar and other underground fantasies

Nightfall

Mote In God's Eye

Legion of Space

I've read all of them; some before I read NOTB, some as a direct result of this book. Other significant works are the Barsoom books of course, the Galactic Patrol series and, last but not least, Heinlein's own books as his Lazarus Long stories merge with the NOTB story line.

One funny part is when the list is discussed and two people voted for the Future history, two for SIASL; so Heinlein got left off. Zeb is very rude about Stranger;

"_I_ didn't vote for Stranger and I'll refrain from embarrassing anyone by asking who did. My God, the things some writers will do for money!"

So....who did vote for it?

Jane

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

>One funny part is when the list is discussed and two people voted

>for the Future history, two for SIASL; so Heinlein got left off. Zeb

>is very rude about Stranger;

>

>"_I_ didn't vote for Stranger and I'll refrain from embarrassing

>anyone by asking who did. My God, the things some writers will do

>for money!"

>

>So....who did vote for it?

>

>Jane

>

I'm betting Hilda and Deety. Hilda, because she was the biggest book aficiando of them, and Deety out of youthful curiosity.

Filly

http://hometown.aol.com/merfilly8/myhomepage

http://www.geocities.com/oceanfilly/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephanie Vickers wrote:

>>One funny part is when the list is discussed and two people voted

>>for the Future history, two for SIASL; so Heinlein got left off. Zeb

>>is very rude about Stranger;

>>

>>"_I_ didn't vote for Stranger and I'll refrain from embarrassing

>>anyone by asking who did. My God, the things some writers will do

>>for money!"

>>

>>So....who did vote for it?

>>

>>Jane

>>

>

>I'm betting Hilda and Deety. Hilda, because she was the biggest book aficiando

>of them, and Deety out of youthful curiosity.

>

>

I think it's quite tricky. What appeals about both stories and which character(s) match up with that appeal? Why didn't Zeb like it and who is most likely to agree with him? We can't think Zeb is lying btw as Hilda had the lists and would know what he had written.

On balance, I'd go for Deety too but is she more likely to have read it because Jake had it in the house? OTOH, he told her to read the Foundation novels and she didn't so maybe it was Hilda....wonder if Jane read it? Of course, we don't know when they came out in that universe; did the publication dates match ours? And just when is it set anyhow?

Jane

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Few more musings that may be useful or redundant depending on whether I'm the only one confused by NOTB :-)

I must have read this book over a dozen times but I still have this feeling of bewilderment at the mathy bits so I decided to sit down and try and get the mechanics of the world shifting clear. Not sure if it's totally relevant to the chat but still...

There are 6 space time co-ordinates; three space, x,y and z and three time, t, tau and teh. All are at right angles to each other. You can rotate between them or translate; which I take to mean join it at a different point on the line. Jake says there are a certain number of accessible universe; 6 to the power 6 to the power 6 but it turns out that Gay can't cope with quite that many.

The first trip that Jake and Deety made was one translation along Tau axis; world without a J.

The British and Russian colony was found by translating 10 quanta along the positive tau axis. They decided that Tau has Black hats and Zeb suggests rotating rather than translating. This gives them 15 possibles. In the middle of it all Hilda comes up with her theory about the fictional universes. They visit them starting from Mars 10 and rotating 90 degrees then decide that after each rotation they will return to Mars Zero as a safeguard. They rotate into, darkness, darkness, blinding light, stars, Pellucidar type world, Oz, blackness, Gulliver, Wonderland, stars, Big Dipper stars, King Arthur, green fire, red fog and Galactic Patrol.

Then they try Teh axis, positive and minus and after revamping Gay they manage to do 50,000 universes in a minute or so, Eventually they settle on Beulahland.

Hilda mentions that she searched tau axis looking for Barsoom and didn't find it. They decide to let Gay do a random search and meet up with Lazarus who is on Tau duration with earth prime on the positive axis; one they had never explored.

Then, they are wiped out, erased from the plot and settle down with the Longs.

I _think_ I've got it...sort of...I was hoping to pin down where the story book universes were but it seems to me they can be anywhere but not if you're looking for them on purpose. Which makes sense I guess.

Jane

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

>I _think_ I've got it...sort of...I was hoping to pin down where the

>story book universes were but it seems to me they can be anywhere but

>not if you're looking for them on purpose. Which makes sense I guess.

>

>Jane

There is an infinite number of possible universes. They just exist in a six-dimensional time/space. They can exist in ours just as easilly. It isn't the number of dimensions that allow for the multiverses, but the number of possible points (infinite) in any dimension, from one on up.

cheers

oz

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <3A843CFA.C9ADF7C3@netcom.ca>, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>

wrote:

>Few more musings that may be useful or redundant depending on whether

>I'm the only one confused by NOTB :-)

>I must have read this book over a dozen times but I still have this

>feeling of bewilderment at the mathy bits so I decided to sit down and

>try and get the mechanics of the world shifting clear. Not sure if it's

>totally relevant to the chat but still...

[...]

>

>I _think_ I've got it...sort of...I was hoping to pin down where the

>story book universes were but it seems to me they can be anywhere but

>not if you're looking for them on purpose. Which makes sense I guess.

>

>Jane

If *you* had access to a real space-time twister, would you publish the map back to your homeworld (or your friends', like Oz?)

That, or it's like the instructions for the "pinball" game in "Space Cadet"--an intelligence test to weed out the masses.

Steve

--

Steve Fenwick abuse@w0x0f.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve Fenwick wrote:

>In article <3A843CFA.C9ADF7C3@netcom.ca>, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>

>wrote:

>

>>

>>I _think_ I've got it...sort of...I was hoping to pin down where the

>>story book universes were but it seems to me they can be anywhere but

>>not if you're looking for them on purpose. Which makes sense I guess.

>>

>>Jane

>

>If *you* had access to a real space-time twister, would you publish the

>map back to your homeworld (or your friends', like Oz?)

>

>That, or it's like the instructions for the "pinball" game in "Space

>Cadet"--an intelligence test to weed out the masses.

>

>Steve

>

>

I always knew I was too dumb to be a Heinlein heroine :-( <g>

Something else occurred to me; what character is Hilda supposed to represent? If Jake is the mad Scientist, Deety the Beautiful Daughter and Zeb the muscled hero then Hilda is...? She doesn't fit into the pulp tradition somehow. Does this make her the most realistic? Or the least?

Jane

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <3A8547C9.E8599A0F@netcom.ca>, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>

wrote:

>Steve Fenwick wrote:

>

>>In article <3A843CFA.C9ADF7C3@netcom.ca>, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>

>>wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>I _think_ I've got it...sort of...I was hoping to pin down where the

>>>story book universes were but it seems to me they can be anywhere but

>>>not if you're looking for them on purpose. Which makes sense I guess.

>>>

>>>Jane

>>

>>If *you* had access to a real space-time twister, would you publish the

>>map back to your homeworld (or your friends', like Oz?)

>>

>>That, or it's like the instructions for the "pinball" game in "Space

>>Cadet"--an intelligence test to weed out the masses.

>>

>>Steve

>>

>>

>

>I always knew I was too dumb to be a Heinlein heroine :-( <g>

Nah...just not sneaky enough, probably too good-natured (like TNotB's Jane) :)

>Something else occurred to me; what character is Hilda supposed to

>represent?

>If Jake is the mad Scientist, Deety the Beautiful Daughter and Zeb the

>muscled hero then Hilda is...? She doesn't fit into the pulp tradition

>somehow. Does this make her the most realistic? Or the least?

>

>Jane

Hmm...maybe Hilda is the real storyteller, along for the ride to keep an eye on her experiment? Or maybe she's the parallel to Star from GR?

Steve

--

Steve Fenwick abuse@w0x0f.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve Fenwick wrote:

>

>

>Hmm...maybe Hilda is the real storyteller, along for the ride to keep an

>eye on her experiment? Or maybe she's the parallel to Star from GR?

>

>

She _does_ end up as Captain, unlikely though that seemed at the start.....hmm...what name can we get out of an anagram of Hilda Mae Corners? It has quite a few of the letters of Heinlein; HEINLE.... maybe she's a Black Hat in training? :-))

How many other people have read the books referred to in NOTB? Any favourites amongst them? They seem to share a theme of slightly whimsical fantasy and high adventure; Glory Road makes more sense now....

Jane

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:37:19 -0500, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>

insisted that the sooth was being spoken here:

>How many other people have read the books referred to in NOTB? Any favourites

>amongst them? They seem to share a theme of slightly whimsical fantasy and high

>adventure; Glory Road makes more sense now....

The list you started this thread with:

Hobbits

King Arthur

Wonderland

Gulliver's Travels

Oz

Pellucidar and other underground fantasies

Nightfall

Mote In God's Eye

Legion of Space

Barsoom books

Tthe Galactic Patrol series

The Future History/Lazarus Long stories

I would add Poul Anderson's future history series as personified by Admiral Sir Dominic Flandry

I loved every book/series on the list but have a special place in my heart for the Legion of Space and The Galactic Patrol. Williamson & Smith stretched my imagination until it _hurt_.

--

Jon

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit-flies like a banana.

-- Groucho Marx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

jon ogden wrote:

>

>I loved every book/series on the list but have a special place in my

>heart for the Legion of Space and The Galactic Patrol. Williamson &

>Smith stretched my imagination until it _hurt_.

>

>--

Yes, the sheer scale of the Smith books was mind boggling...OK, it was sometimes the sheer scale of the destruction as whole galaxies were annihilated but they were still a lot of fun. Clarissa and her daughters were interesting role models too....none of the heroines in his books were prone to wimpishness or lack of brains. I can see why he and Heinlein got on.

Which of course leads us to the all important question; can we, dare we, stick out our necks and assume that this book represents what Heinlein enjoyed reading? I know we don't usually go by what's in the books but in this case i feel it might be the exception that proves and all that :-)

Jane

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:14:19 -0500, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>

insisted that the sooth was being spoken here:

>Yes, the sheer scale of the Smith books was mind boggling...OK, it was sometimes the

>sheer scale of the destruction as whole galaxies were annihilated but they were

>still a lot of fun. Clarissa and her daughters were interesting role models

>too....none of the heroines in his books were prone to wimpishness or lack of

>brains. I can see why he and Heinlein got on.

I've been a sucker for red-heads ever since meeting Clarissa. <grin>

>Which of course leads us to the all important question; can we, dare we, stick out

>our necks and assume that this book represents what Heinlein enjoyed reading? I know

>we don't usually go by what's in the books but in this case i feel it might be the

>exception that proves and all that :-)

Well, Spider Robinson suggested that, after writing a great number of books aimed squarely at the mass market, RAH wrote NotB for a few million of his closest friends. Accepting this for the sake of the argument, it would seem easy to believe that he would be a little more open about how he personally felt. I certainly believe that the fate of the critics in NotB represents RAH's idea of just deserts as well as Jubal's. So why not have his protagonists salute the books he admired?

--

Jon

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit-flies like a banana.

-- Groucho Marx

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From that list I've read something from all the series. Only 6 or so of the Barsoom books, and only 1 of the Williamson Legion.

Bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve Fenwick wrote:

>

>In article <3A843CFA.C9ADF7C3@netcom.ca>, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>

>wrote:

>

>>Few more musings that may be useful or redundant depending on whether

>>I'm the only one confused by NOTB :-)

>>I must have read this book over a dozen times but I still have this

>>feeling of bewilderment at the mathy bits so I decided to sit down and

>>try and get the mechanics of the world shifting clear. Not sure if it's

>>totally relevant to the chat but still...

>[...]

>>

>>I _think_ I've got it...sort of...I was hoping to pin down where the

>>story book universes were but it seems to me they can be anywhere but

>>not if you're looking for them on purpose. Which makes sense I guess.

>>

>>Jane

>

>If *you* had access to a real space-time twister, would you publish the

>map back to your homeworld (or your friends', like Oz?)

>

>That, or it's like the instructions for the "pinball" game in "Space

>Cadet"--an intelligence test to weed out the masses.

>

>Steve

>

>--

>Steve Fenwick abuse@w0x0f.com

If I had access to a real space-time twister, my first place to visit would be the universe of Jack Chalker's Flux & Anchor series. Why? For the superior regen capabilities of Flux. Remap your DNA to get rid of genetic diseases, restore it to whatever age (physically I want the health of an 18 year old with the looks of a 30 year old), fix any dental problems/balding tendencies/etc - and it all takes place more or less in a few minutes vs months in a regen facility in Boondock. Next stop - OA to talk to the Guardians of the Universe and then on to Arisia to chat with Mentor. I would also like to visit the Trek universe and even the Star Wars universe and even meet Dr Who.

[Tony Vickers]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:37:19 -0500, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>wrote:

>

>She _does_ end up as Captain, unlikely though that seemed at the

>start.....hmm...what name can we get out of an anagram of Hilda Mae Corners?

>It has quite a few of the letters of Heinlein; HEINLE.... maybe she's a Black

>Hat in training? :-))

IIRC, Hilda was married more than once...maybe the anagram will become more obvious if you add a married name? Too many of my books are in storage right now, so can't find NOTB to re read...

ck

--

Charles S. Krin, DO FAAFP,Member,PGBFH,KC5EVN

Email address dump file for spam: reply to ckrin at Iamerica dot net

F*S=k (Freedom times Security equals a constant: the more

security you have, the less freedom! Niven's Fourth Law)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charles Krin:

>On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:37:19 -0500, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>wrote:

>

>>

>>She _does_ end up as Captain, unlikely though that seemed at the

>>start.....hmm...what name can we get out of an anagram of Hilda Mae Corners?

>>It has quite a few of the letters of Heinlein; HEINLE.... maybe she's a >Black

>>Hat in training? :-))

>

>IIRC, Hilda was married more than once...maybe the anagram will become

>more obvious if you add a married name? Too many of my books are in

>storage right now, so can't find NOTB to re read...

>

>ck

Try "Hilda Mae "Sharpie" Corners Burroughs" for starters.

--

David M. Silver

AGplusone@aol.com

"I expect your names to shine!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

AGplusone wrote:

>Charles Krin:

>

>>On Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:37:19 -0500, ddavitt <ddavitt@netcom.ca>wrote

: >>

>>>

>>>She _does_ end up as Captain, unlikely though that seemed at the

>>>start.....hmm...what name can we get out of an anagram of Hilda Mae Corners?

>>>It has quite a few of the letters of Heinlein; HEINLE.... maybe she's a

>>Black

>>>Hat in training? :-))

>>

>>IIRC, Hilda was married more than once...maybe the anagram will become

>>more obvious if you add a married name? Too many of my books are in

>>storage right now, so can't find NOTB to re read...

>>

>>ck

>

>Try "Hilda Mae "Sharpie" Corners Burroughs" for starters.

>

>

>--

>David M. Silver

>AGplusone@aol.com

>"I expect your names to shine!"

"Sharpie" makes an anagram of "RAH Spie" -- hmmm....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simon Jester:

>"Sharpie" makes an anagram of "RAH Spie" -- hmmm....

Hmmmm! You know, he was just evil enough in my judgment to have picked that nickname deliberately.

--

David M. Silver

AGplusone@aol.com

"I expect your names to shine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

AGplusone wrote:

>>

>>IIRC, Hilda was married more than once...maybe the anagram will become

>>more obvious if you add a married name? Too many of my books are in

>>storage right now, so can't find NOTB to re read...

>>

>>ck

>

>Try "Hilda Mae "Sharpie" Corners Burroughs" for starters.

>

>

I don't think we ever know any more names than these so here goes;

That gives us

ROBER (T) A(N)SO(N) HEINLEI (N) with missing letters in brackets. Notice that the missing letters are 't' - one of the 6 named axis that the twister travels on and notice that there are three missing 'n's. The number of the beast is 6 to the power 6 to the power 6; correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 'to the nth power' a fairly common expression for a large number? We have three numbers 'powered up' and three missing 'n's.

I rest my case......

Jane :-)

Oh darn, just thought, we could add Long to that name; that gives us another n. Still a darn good theory though!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

jon ogden wrote: So why not have his protagonists salute the books he

>admired?

>

>

Fair enough...so what can we read into the appearance of Lazarus? Not to mention the gigantic ball of tangled yarn that was Cat? Why did Heinlein, many decades after the first appearance of LL, bring him back for TEFL and then, seven years later bring him into NOTB? It's also funny to see Jubal and Lazarus together; I always said they weren't the same person! :-)

(I know many more Heinlein characters appear in the party at the end but they are more walk ons).

Jane

Go To Postings

Here Begins The Discussion Log

==========================================================================

You have just entered room "Heinlein Readers Group chat."

Major oz has entered the room.

Major oz: 'evenin, David

DavidWrightSr: Greetings.

ddavitt has entered the room.

DavidWrightSr: Hi Jane.

ddavitt: Hi there

ddavitt: Did you get my message about the hosts?

DavidWrightSr: How are the kids and hubby? Hold on. I think I did. Let me check

SAcademy has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hi SA

SAcademy: Good evening, all.

ddavitt: Fine david got back from Europe an hour ago and is flaked out on the sofa watching footie

DavidWrightSr: Good evening Ginny. Jane. I don't see it. what was it about?

ddavitt: Pam, Sean and Kultsi hosting

ddavitt: Or not :-)

ddavitt: Sean and Kultis seem keen but not on a regular basis and pam is away unfortunately

DavidWrightSr: Ah found it.

Major oz: Good evening, SA and Jane. I was away and just noticed you.

ddavitt: So, just us to host for the time being

ddavitt: Hi Oz

DavidWrightSr: I think Oz is away for the moment.

SAcademy: Hello, Oz.

Major oz: Where is our resident Mystic (Bill) ? I expected him to host

Major oz: ....nothing said, but it is his subject......

SAcademy: Working. He will probably be late.

Major oz: ah, so

ddavitt: He said it was mine but i don't remeber it; I thought it was originally AG's idea

SAcademy: I have started to educate people about the copyright law.

DavidWrightSr: Oz. I'm confused. Tonight was supposed to be 'the worlds of NOTB', but you said mysticism. Did I miss something?

Major oz: Lucyloo e-mailed me and said she would be here as the subject excited her.

ddavitt: Not much on afh; everyone too busy on that voting thread :-(

ddavitt: Mysticism is the next one I think

DavidWrightSr: That's what I thought

ddavitt: Lucy is online

Major oz: Well, then I am REALLY confused.

ddavitt: I thought you were just being funny Oz

ddavitt: Haven't you been able to read any of the afh posts?

SAcademy: Thank you Jane, for your post in reply to mine.

ddavitt: No problem; sorry you have had to say anything. people should know better

SAcademy: Does Lucy need an invitation?

Major oz: yes, but from the logs of the meeting last monday, I got the impression that this was mysticism

DavidWrightSr: 'Mysticism' was to be 2 weeks from tonight, and I was to get in touch with Crais or Rosenberg about a guest visit in 4 weeks. At least that was my understanding

Major oz: perhaps, SA.....I don't know how to do it.

ddavitt: I don't know; i can send her an IM

ddavitt: Hang on

ddavitt: I've sent it

DavidWrightSr: Can't do it yet. She

Major oz: I have been skipping most of afh lately -- marking them as read. The discussion of welfare is monopolizing and boring.

DavidWrightSr: is still on AOL, not AIM.

ddavitt: No Oz, we were discussing mysticism but this chat is definitely Worlds of NOTB

Major oz: ...sorry, I screwed up.

ddavitt: Not kidding! I am marking as read now.

ddavitt: Which leaves about 3 posts

Doc4Kidz has entered the room.

Major oz: evenin' Doc

DavidWrightSr: Oz said: The discussion of welfare is monopolizing and boring. Amen to that

Doc4Kidz: hello

DavidWrightSr: Hi Doc

SAcademy: Evening, Doc

ddavitt: Hi there

ddavitt: Just talking to Lucy

ddavitt: She will try and join but has to reinstall AIM

DavidWrightSr: Tough

stephenveiss has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hello Stephen' late for you!

stephenveiss: hehe.. I've been going to bed at 4-5 AM recently :-)

DavidWrightSr: That'll age you fast :-)

ddavitt: Strange person; here's me desperate for a good night's sleep:-)

stephenveiss: hehe.. and gettin up sometime in the afternoon, too

ddavitt: Have you got my pics for the page OK?

stephenveiss: yes.. and they'll be on this weekend, I promise

ddavitt: I'm still not sure I'm doing this scanner thing right...

ddavitt: Oh good; thanks!

ddavitt: Same address for the page?

stephenveiss: it might change.. if it does, I'll post the new addy to afh..

ddavitt: OK

ddavitt: Well, it's just gone 9.00; shall we start?

Major oz: ga

DavidWrightSr: Fire when ready Gridley!

ddavitt: So; who thinks they can build a twister then?

Major oz: ?

ddavitt: Did the physics of it make sense?

Major oz: ....a time twister?

Major oz: not at all

ddavitt: Yep; if so, I want one:-)

Major oz: but GREAT speculation

ddavitt: I don't know enough to know if it was feasible; why 6 dimensions, why not more?

DavidWrightSr: Reminded me of the device in Fredric Brown's 'What Mad Universe', but that one only worked on space coordinates, not time

ddavitt: And it took me a while to visualise the rotation bit..

ddavitt: Was his small too?

ddavitt: Like Libby's device in MC, jake's looks like a sewing machine

DavidWrightSr: I'm still not clear on the differences between rotation, translation and what was the other one?

ddavitt: Another pulp cliche?

ddavitt: I think that was it

Major oz: One of my faculty members, a PhD from India and a Budhist, had a great understanding of particle movement PAST the speed of light, but could not account for the transition THROUGH the barrier. I think of him every time I read NOTB

DavidWrightSr: the one in "WMU" was built originally out of a sewing machine.

ddavitt: Rotate, you change the axis, translate you move to points on the axes

ddavitt: Really? coincidence? or would Heinlein have read it?

geeairmoe2 has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hi Will

DavidWrightSr: Wasn't there a third?

AGplusone has entered the room.

AGplusone: Hi, is this working?

ddavitt: Not that i recall but I did get a tad confused

geeairmoe2: Hi, all.

ddavitt: Hi AG

ddavitt: What would the third have been?

DavidWrightSr: Brown was contemporary with RAH, I believe.

SageMerlin has entered the room.

Major oz: no, Jane -- rotation does not move the axis, only translation does (and only if it is not along the axis).

ddavitt: What did the machine in Time mqchine look like? Surprised wells didn't get mentioned in NOTB

ddavitt: ? Explain to lil ole me

DavidWrightSr: I don't know about the book, but in the movie, it was a sled like affair with a big rotating disk in the rear.

ddavitt: I saw rotation as being stationary in the centre and the 6 spokes move around you; translation you move from the cente out along the spokes

Major oz: The line connecting the north pole and the south pole is the rotational axis of the earth. This axis also translates around the sun.

AGplusone: Hi, Alan. We're talking about influences and other works referenced in Number of the Beast?

ddavitt: Yes, i remember that but I wondered if , like the continua device it was small but attached to a vehicle

ddavitt: Hi Sage

AGplusone: Or mysticism?

SageMerlin: Oh, Okay...that's clear

SageMerlin: Hello crew.

ddavitt: No mysticism

Major oz: Let me repeat my apology to all: I SCREWED UP

ddavitt: :-):-)We may forget it by break time

Major oz: I announced mysticism this week.

SageMerlin: Does this mean I can go back to my meditation group now?

Reedman1956 has entered the room.

AGplusone: Naw, we gotcha, Alan. You're stuck!

ddavitt: Hi reedman

ddavitt: No one gets out of here alive...

Reedman1956: hi everyone

DavidWrightSr: Greetings and welcome. Is this your first time?

ddavitt: until they've explained this time twister thingie to me<g>

Doc4Kidz: friends, Reedman is a firned of mine

ddavitt: I'm still not convinced Oz

DavidWrightSr: Magic, jane. ala Clarke

Doc4Kidz: (friend)

Reedman1956: yes it is

Major oz: Jane, the easy way for the translation / rotation thing in three dimensions is to visualize an airplane. Moving forward, it translates along a longitudinal axis.

ddavitt: We are talking about Number of the Beast tonight

Doc4Kidz: pitch, yaw, roll?

ddavitt: Yes, Ok

Major oz: when it is blown sideways, it translates along the lateral axix

ddavitt: Like I said, one quanta at a time or more

SAcademy: Are you a sailor Doc

Major oz: when it is moved up or down, it translates along a vertical axis

stephenveiss: ugh.. I can't visualise anything in 3 dimensions at 2AM, let alone 6 :-)

Doc4Kidz: nope, ROCKETEER!

ddavitt: I know what you mean..

Major oz: When it rolls it rotates around the longitudinal axis

ddavitt: Still with you...

SAcademy: Okay, I stand corrected.

Major oz: When it pitches (noses down) it rotates about the lateral axis.

ddavitt: Jake used a gyroscope with 6 prongs I think

Major oz: and, finally, when it turns from side to side, it rotates about the vertical axis

Major oz: .....whew :-)

ddavitt: Three of the spokes are visible, three are in time

AGplusone: Of course if 6^6^6^ really is the number of the beast invented by John the Divine, maybe it is 'mystic' ... :-)

ddavitt: Thanks Oz

ddavitt: No one mentions that word again!!:-)

ddavitt: Until two weeks from now anyway...

Major oz: agreed

AGplusone: :-X

ddavitt: Why did H bring that in? To predispose us to think the BH was evil?

ddavitt: Nice smiley!

ddavitt: I think it fooled the gang; horns and such, demonic origins

Major oz: don't understand the question, Jane

AGplusone: Need somebody to compete with other stellar attractions such as the Galactic Overlord

ddavitt: Reading the book the first few times I got a bit lost as to where they were, where they were going

ddavitt: The 666 bit made them think the ranger was evil; turned out he wasn't

Major oz: Process overtook plot

ddavitt: Just a thpought

Major oz: but is was a dandy trip

Major oz: is = it

ddavitt: Yes, lots of fun. Don't know why the book is so low on most people

DavidWrightSr has left the room.

ddavitt: s list

ddavitt: Do we see a common theme in the type of worlds they visit?

AGplusone: Dave will need someone to keep the part of the log he's missing ...

Major oz: the only thing I have against it is that it is cliquish

Major oz: You have to be part of the "in group" to enjoy it.

ddavitt: Very Glory Roadish; high adventure, heroes, beautiful women..

AGplusone: That does reduce its appeal.

ddavitt: Well, it helps to have read a lot of Heinlein..

ddavitt: But cliquesish how?

Major oz: And I have spent my life railing against cliquishness.

ddavitt: Like fallen Angels?

AGplusone: Secret handshakes, acronyms necessary ... read a lot of other stuff too.

Doc4Kidz: A lot of "inside" comments

Major oz: You have to know who he knows to enjoy the book.

ddavitt: Need to be in the know to know?

Major oz: You have to be a desciple.

ddavitt: Wonderland, Oz, barsoom...all pretty well known tho

stephenveiss: notb was the first Heinlein I read.. I enjoyed it the first time I read it, and its still one of my favourites.. perhaps I'm just different..

ddavitt: Wish i could remember if I read barsoom because of NOTB or other way round...

Major oz: no they aren't.....and that is my point

Doc4Kidz: I did, Jane

Major oz: He assumed that NOTB readers would be familiar with those.

Major oz: Not all of us were

ddavitt: What? I grew up on Oz; first couple anyway! And Alice was read to me from v early age

AGplusone: It's presumptious of course, but wouldn't be wonderful if 200 years from now, most people find themselves reading Burroughs, Baum, etc. because of Number ...

Doc4Kidz: hadn't read those stories until Number

ddavitt: I see them as classics

Major oz: But you ain't the world

AGplusone: I really had never read Oz before Number

Major oz: You prove my point

Major oz: No offense

ddavitt: Not to mention the films/cartoons of them which make the story familiar anyway

AGplusone: Just adulterated Disney-fied versions

ddavitt: I am if Hilda's theory is true <g>

ddavitt: Yes but they got the basic plot over and made them familiar

ddavitt: Maybe it's a UK thing but Alice is definitely a classic over there

SCIFIMUSIC has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hello

Reedman1956: same as peter pan and pinoccio. many stories

Major oz: .....beginning to sound like: "let 'em eat cake......"

Major oz: :-)

AGplusone: E.E. Smith has been virtually out of print, or at least off the shelves of most retailers, for years.

ddavitt: Well, what childhood books are classics in US?

Major oz: They aren't

Major oz: only TV

AGplusone: Now? I'm not sure there are any, anymore.

ddavitt: Yes, mine are old ones, got second hand

Reedman1956: tom swift? the hardy bows?

Reedman1956: boys

ddavitt: katy Did, little House, Tom sawyer? Little Women

Reedman1956: the hobbit

AGplusone: Someone's likely to find something politically incorrect about the ones we read ... Tom Sawyer, Huck Finn ... OH! Dialect, and he uses the word "nigger"

ddavitt: Yes, that was read to me in school when I was 10

stephenveiss: ok.. I'm out.. goodnight, everyone..

stephenveiss has left the room.

ddavitt: Night Stephen

AGplusone: Night Stephen

Reedman1956: night stephen

AGplusone: Little House, perhaps ...

AGplusone: hardly anyone in school recommends the others anymore

Major oz: OT for Jane. Our local library is the one founded by Laura Wilder Ingalls. At the library board last Tuesday, we alloted $1600 for restoration of her book of autographs from all her characters.

ddavitt: I love those books!

ddavitt: That's great for you; very exciting

AGplusone: And since Little House has a very young girl getting married, it's likely it won't last too long ... they'll claim it's pornographic.

Major oz: Or too conservative..........

Major oz: being married, that is........

Major oz: anyway.......

Reedman1956: in those days female teachers would be fired if seen in the company of men

Major oz: are the black hats here the same guys in Cat Who , etc?

ddavitt: Just trying to get DWright back on'

ddavitt: He's stuck and it won't let me invite him

AGplusone: Argument against local school boards ... real black hats, all of them.

AGplusone: Tell him to reboot

Major oz: Why not just go to the page and click chat. No invite required.

ddavitt: OK

Reedman1956: local or one big board-- all are open to abuse

Major oz: yeah, David, real black hats......but were they the SAME ones.

ddavitt: Black hats; not sure.

AGplusone: true, but the little board do their work in darkness, away from national scrutiny ... you'd be amazed at what they try to ban.

ddavitt: Cat was even more confusing than NOTB:-)

Reedman1956: i teach, i know

Major oz: I'm into Cat right now.

ddavitt: I see evolution is back in kansas

DavidWrightSr has entered the room.

ddavitt: Welcome david

Major oz: a passing fad, Jane

DavidWrightSr: Made it back.

Reedman1956: like banning it meant it didn't happen

AGplusone: :-) one of the reasons I love Job:ACOJ

Major oz: the wackos will always be overcome.

Reedman1956: optimist

AGplusone: but like the Fourth Reich, vil rise again!

ddavitt: Going back to the books in NOTB; maybe H wasn't being elitist but just trying to reawaken interest in his own favourites

Major oz: etc, etc,

ddavitt: Wanting to share the magic

Reedman1956: speaking of which, the producers are back on broadway

Major oz: not elitish, cliquish.......but......ok, I can agree.

ddavitt: as we all do when we find an author we like

Doc4Kidz: That was my take on it. At least that's what it did for me.

AGplusone: Jane, the opening scene in Number ... isn't it an echo of one of EE Smith's books? Or was that something else it echoed.

ddavitt: I've forced about 5 people to read the Outlander series in the last two months:-)

Major oz: When one of the heros in the patrol dances with his (eventual) wife

Major oz: yes

ddavitt: Slightly familair...Skylark has inventions in the basement feel

AGplusone: The Kinnison one?

Major oz: yes

Major oz: Brad

ddavitt: Oh; that could be Clariisa in green silk and kinnison

ddavitt: Then they go outside and she reads his mind

Major oz: yes

Major oz: never put those two together before

ddavitt: Those books were so much fun...

ddavitt: That's the appeal of NOTB for me; gigantic crossword puzzle

Major oz: My SO got me the complete set of newly re-done large paperbacks last Xmas.

ddavitt: AG; think we nearly got another anagram there!

Major oz: .....with illustrations from the originals.

ddavitt: What of Smith? cool!

Major oz: yes

ddavitt: I heard they were coming out but didn't they have lots of problems?

ddavitt: With hilda I mean

Major oz: and I am sipping on a wee drop of a single malt she got me yesterday.....

ddavitt: Which one? David just arrived from Heathrow with a Cragganmore

ddavitt: Despite having three bottles at Christmas!!

DavidWrightSr: I originally had trouble with NOTB, primarily because I kept getting confused as to who was POV character. I kept having to look at the name at the bottom of the page to get oriented.

AGplusone: If you go to Gharlan of Edore's page, you can get publication data on the republication of the E E Smith novels

Major oz: some breed I never heard of....brb

ddavitt: Highland park, Glenturret and macallan 12

ddavitt: I ahve them all apart from one Lord Tedric and I don't like them much

ddavitt: Lensman series is my favourite

Major oz: Jane: it's Speyburn

ddavitt: Jake is more like the hero in Spacehounds of IPC who is shipwrecked and builds all sorts of things from scraps

AGplusone: THE "LENSMAN" WEB PAGE

Major oz: never saw it before

ddavitt: Speyside is an area of single malts

ddavitt: Don't know that one

ddavitt: got it; what age?

Major oz: 10

ddavitt: I have a whisky book with tasting notes

Reedman1956: bring on the tasting

DavidWrightSr: My first impression after reading NOTB was that RAH intended it to be the last. I got that from thinking that he was tying everything into one final grand opus. I was extremely pleased when it turned out I was wrong.

Major oz: David, I would like to have seen the SAME scene from various POV's, and kept expecting to see some.

Major oz: ....alas

ddavitt: Doesn't have that but it's a pale gold colour, dry nose, sweet malty palate

AGplusone: [sorry, had to get Gharlane's url in the discussion. Save it and look at it later. It's worth it.]

ddavitt: Thanks David

Major oz: I got the same impression, David

DavidWrightSr: I'll make sure that the URL is active in the log.

ddavitt: People say they can't tell who is narrating...I never had that problem

Major oz: I read it like a last note to his fans.

DavidWrightSr: My thoughts exactly.

AGplusone: He's the fellow, btw, who let AFH know about the Black Hat acronyms about two years ago.

ddavitt: In the letter he wrote he said the end was a clue that it wasn't;

ddavitt: The beast will return! da da dah...

ddavitt: Beast being Heinlein of course

DavidWrightSr: Yeah. I can see that now, but I didn't at the time. I didn't realize that he was the beast :-)

ddavitt: Tell me about it!

ddavitt: That post from Gharlane knocked me for six

DavidWrightSr: Another one of those things like TANSTAAFL which took me years to figure out.

ddavitt: good fun finding the anagrams though

Major oz: ...will someone 'splain that to me....about RAH being the beast?

ddavitt: He is the author who, if you think about is has to be the villain

ddavitt: He's the one who makes the bad things happen to the characters

Major oz: I HAVE thought about it and can't see it.

ddavitt: Who else?

Major oz: .......don't see that either

ddavitt: If it's not his fault who else can you blame?

Major oz: not for me to prove

ddavitt: The fact that all the BH's are him mixed up is the clue

Major oz: it is for him to say

Major oz: only a clue

AGplusone: Every time something bad occurs, it's thru the agency of a character whose name is an acronym for RAH, in one form or another.

Major oz: as in the face of Jesus in an oil slick

ddavitt: He was making the point that without the BH's to kick them, nothing would happen; a necessary evil

Major oz: agree with that, but it doesn't say it is him

DavidWrightSr: But not all the anagrams were Black Hats, were they?

ddavitt: Cruel to be kind...which is why, at the end, we find that the BH's may not have been all that bad and Zeb and Co could be seen as murderers

Major oz: of whom?

ddavitt: Some, like Sir tenderloinn, don't do much i agree

ddavitt: The Ranger, Bennie Hibol

Major oz: they were certified aliens

ddavitt: They killed him and he did nothing to them

Major oz: at least non-humans

AGplusone: Some are immediately thwarted ... or side-tracked

ddavitt: They didn't know that when they killed him

Major oz: high probability

ddavitt: Why/

Major oz: autopsie bore them out

Reedman1956: bye all

Reedman1956 has left the room.

Major oz: no reaction to deety, etc.

ddavitt: He just said it was federal land and pointed to his gun. zeb and jake promptly chopped his head off...

Major oz: no brain's "unique" abilities

Major oz: etc.

ddavitt: That was afterwards that they thought that up

Major oz: forgot the dropping of deety's clothes

geeairmoe2 has left the room.

ddavitt: At the time it was Zeb's magical survival instincts

Major oz: not magical

ddavitt: His ability to sense trouble...

Major oz: based on long experience

ddavitt: Mystical maybe :-)

Major oz: and, as I said, borne out

Major oz: perhaps,

Major oz: as in a Jesuit Seal

ddavitt: Well, he knew the car would expolde before it did; that's not normal

Major oz: that is why he is Zeb

AGplusone: Ever think of the posibility that Sharpie was the real cause of all the problems. She could have indeed have been the spy. Planted a bomb in the Burrough's car, etc., and jumped aboard immediately to keep track of them, just as Gwen is the person who really kills Tolliver in the beginning of Cat?

ddavitt: Notice how all the characters are from the pulps 9 except Hilda) but slightly skewed

Major oz: nah....

ddavitt: She is odd man out.

Major oz: don't buy it

Major oz: She is the best suited for command

SageMerlin has left the room.

Major oz: as was, again, borne out.

ddavitt: And VERY strange that she ends up as captain

DavidWrightSr: David. You've got a suspicious mind ;-)

Major oz: not strange

Major oz: she is the best one for the job

ddavitt: In the pulps it would have been unheard of

AGplusone: Ancient Evil always has a suspicious mind.

Major oz: what?

ddavitt: LOL

ddavitt: Female in charge

ddavitt: jake's attitude to her is a parody of the pulps

Major oz: not a problem

Major oz: only at first

ddavitt: Little woman = brainlesss bimbo

Major oz: Zeitgeist

DavidWrightSr: I have a theory about Hilda.

ddavitt: ga

Major oz: ga

AGplusone: But I did like the "Sharpie" = "RAH Spie"

DavidWrightSr: Ok. It was mentioned that we had the Mad Scientist etc. and what was Hilda.

BPRAL22169 has entered the room.

Major oz:

AGplusone: Yes ...

ddavitt: Hi bill

DavidWrightSr: My thoughts were that all of the characters 'looked' like typical pulp characters, but were in reality much deeper. and

BPRAL22169: Hi, all. Sorry to be late.

DavidWrightSr: Hilda was the comic side-kick, at least appeared to be in the beginning, but in reality was much more.

Major oz: yo, bill

ddavitt: Like jake not being absent minded and zeb and Deety being intelligent

DavidWrightSr: Just my thoughts

ddavitt: Yes, she did change

ddavitt: I think you're right David

Major oz: did she, or did perceptions of her change?

ddavitt: I'm not sure if she was a spy but it's fun to speculate..I think she would've got mentioned in the letter too

BPRAL22169: Zeb and Deety are Kim Kinnison and Clarissa macDougal.

DavidWrightSr: I think that they all had mis-perceptions, which changed as they learned about each other

ddavitt: Yes, both of them were bright and brawny

Major oz: we were speculating on that earlier, Bill

AGplusone: Dave Wright right about her changing or me about her being the saboteur?

Doc4Kidz: That confirms it! If Bill says so.

BPRAL22169: The dance scene seems to me a direct referecnce to -- was it Second-Stage Lensman?

BPRAL22169:

Major oz: AG, would you embolden your font?

ddavitt: Dave W; I like your theory AG but it may be a bit way out

AGplusone: 'kay

Major oz: thanx

ddavitt: We did that too Bill; green silk dress and all :-)

ddavitt: If hilda is a BH then she manouvers into the perfect spot to direct operations

Major oz: I found it ineresting that it was the Brits that were aghast at Hilda commanding.

BPRAL22169: Oh, good -- I'll see it in the log, then.

ddavitt: We're a conservative bunch

AGplusone: Or misdirect them ... she has the arguments with the heads of state where they arrive ...

ddavitt: But remember they were Victorian Brits...

Major oz: well.......hokay

AGplusone: with Lazarus too

Major oz: everyone knows LL is a sexist pig

ddavitt: :-)

ddavitt: Jake is infuriating...I would have clobbered him

Major oz: but he comes aroung

AGplusone: Of course, and wasn't it entirely far out of character for him to knuckle down to Hilda?

Major oz: aroun"d"

ddavitt: Keeps on saying, that's it, i won't underestimate her again..then two pages later, off he goes

ddavitt: Does he really?

Major oz: What was the quote: "beware of the little man........"

ddavitt: What, she has a lens and is hypnotising them/!

Major oz: little man = big ego

AGplusone: Makes me wonder what he'd have done with the Sharpie character in future volumes ...

ddavitt: Well she was in cat

Doc4Kidz: and to sail

ddavitt: backing up Gwen when she bawled out LL

BPRAL22169: I think -- yes, she made a brief appearance in TSBTS

Major oz: RAH would have found a relationship to the Stone family.

ddavitt: She's on that comittee

Major oz: .....for Hilda

DavidWrightSr: C of O

ddavitt: Seems pretty important even by the end of NOTB; has all the local workers tied up

DavidWrightSr: or the Stone(bender)s

Major oz: what is that, Jane?

ddavitt: Director general Hilda

AGplusone: Maybe the Stones turn out decendants of the Stonebenders, Dave

ddavitt: 'has the laboor market so tied up"

ddavitt: That was Snob at the party

Major oz: < boy, it really sucks when age and single malt weakens the memory > :-)

ddavitt: 'so cornered' sorry...hey was that a pun?

ddavitt: i don;t spot them very often; i almost said in a post that Ag had given sterling service as a host before it hit me :-)

DavidWrightSr: 'Sharp Corners' reminds me of what you are supposed to do with annoying letters :-)

ddavitt: Yes:-)

ddavitt: How much lime jeelo would you need for a pool?

ddavitt: That confused me until i emigrated; our jello/jelly isn't a powder

BPRAL22169: I say any cells a single malt kills, you weren't using anyway and to hell with it.

DavidWrightSr: I thought you 'grew' cells in malt :-)

ddavitt: OK, coming up to an hour; want to break?

Major oz: ....I wish.....

Major oz: hokay

ddavitt: You should come visit Oz; we have about 20 different ones

BPRAL22169: That's yeast, I think -- not that some peoples' brain cells don't resemble yeast, but that's an unkind remark, and I didn't say it.

Doc4Kidz: MOnty Python: ..I DRINK, therefore, I am"

Major oz: Toronto ?

ddavitt: And the macallan 25 year old.

ddavitt: Close to it, yes

ddavitt: Trefor is near to be and dandroid was too; rememebr him?

ddavitt: near to me that is

BPRAL22169: I've got a 23 year old port...

ddavitt: Hmm..used to like port but haven't had any in a while.

SAcademy has left the room.

BPRAL22169: Once or twice a year.

Major oz: I recall dandroid (vaguely), but not trefor

ddavitt: Remember what Brummell said of it?

ddavitt: Or was it byron/

BPRAL22169: But are we not wandering? (Laphroaig!)

ddavitt: we're on a break...

BPRAL22169: Ah.

Major oz: What cigars do you dip in it, Bill

ddavitt: yuk!

BPRAL22169: Well, I'm taking a break, too?

ddavitt: back at 10.10, cowboy time..

BPRAL22169: I haven't smoked cigars in 20 years -- which was before I discovered Laphroaig. however, I did use Courvoisier for that purpose once upon a time...

ddavitt: Don' they go all soggy?

Major oz: I haven't smoked cigars since my surgery. But I used to love a brandy or port and dip the end. ah.........decadence

Major oz: no, Jane, they don't

BPRAL22169: Jane, that end is going to go soggy, anyway.

Major oz: It isn't like Oreo's and milk

ddavitt: Quick dip huh?

ddavitt: Tried the single malts with a port wood finish?

ddavitt: David likes them

ddavitt: madeira cask ones not so good he says

Major oz: I have just in the last couple years discovered single malt.

ddavitt: I can't stand the stuff!

Major oz: I never was a drinker (other than Tequila)

ddavitt: But i am fascinated by it in an intellectual way:-):-)

ddavitt: I can take a sip or two of a really good one but I'm a gin/vodka gal

BPRAL22169: How can you appreciate Amanda Cross without a thorough appreciation of single malts.

ddavitt: kate Fansler?

BPRAL22169: Of course, Kate Fansler is a gin martini girl, too.

ddavitt: not read them

BPRAL22169: Oh, you've got a treat in store for you.

ddavitt: I'll try them if you recommend them

ddavitt: Always on the lookout for new authors

BPRAL22169: There are only about half a dozen or maybe 8

ddavitt: I may have read a short story or two

BPRAL22169: She is kind of an heir to Dorothy Sayers.

ddavitt: in an anthology

ddavitt: Oh well, I'll definitely try them

Major oz: V. I. Warsshevsky drinks Bud

DavidWrightSr: Sayers? in what way?

ddavitt: I go more for the cosy or the funny; janet Evanovich, Katy Munger

DavidWrightSr: I'm a big fan of Sayers.

BPRAL22169: She references Sayers the way Crais references Heinlein (only more often)

ddavitt: Three of us and Heinlein fans too..hmm

BPRAL22169: And she's very literary the way Sayers was

ddavitt: I'll look out for that

Major oz: Jane, do you read Barthalamew Gill? the Irish cop

ddavitt: Yes, I'd like to read the Dante work she did

Doc4Kidz: My wife(and I) love Janet evanovitch. Can't wait for no 7!

ddavitt: again, know the name but not read them

BPRAL22169: The books roughly follow Kate Fansler's career, so they are sequential, more or less.

ddavitt: It should have been ranger!!!

ddavitt: Damn, that was a disappointment...

Doc4Kidz: That's what SHE said!!!

ddavitt: Just picked up one of her romance novels in the mlibrary sale for a quarter

ddavitt: Very similar style; they're quite sought after

ddavitt: late 1980's

ddavitt: I bet she did!

ddavitt: my mum wanted Ranger too...ah well...

ddavitt: Is trenton real?

Doc4Kidz: Yeah. Have you seen her website?

Doc4Kidz: Yes, not far from here

ddavitt: Yep, i get the plum news

ddavitt: Is it like the books?

Doc4Kidz: She make s several Staten Island references too

Doc4Kidz: We lived there (my wife born there) Very funny

ddavitt: Whole different world...

ddavitt: OK, I think we can stop breaking now :-)

Doc4Kidz: I've never lived in Trenton, just passed through

ddavitt: Anyone wonder what the detective stories were in NOTB?

ddavitt: Sherlock Holmes gets mentioned

ddavitt: Not surprising with Mycroft in MIAHM

ddavitt: and one character says he likes some not all of them...wonder which ones?

ddavitt: Heinlein's one mystery story wasn't bad

ddavitt: He said it was easy but didn't pay i think

DavidWrightSr: Speaking of Mycroft. there was a 'XXMycroftX' in the room shortly after I opened it, but he/she didn't respond and then disappeared.

Major oz: must have been a BH

ddavitt: Didn't see them

DavidWrightSr: It was spooky. Before you got here OZ

ddavitt: SCIFI are you still with us?

AGplusone: LOL ... I noted there was a meeting tonight on yahoo.com's RAH e mail list

AGplusone: might have been one of them

Major oz: so, Linda. What do you think of all this?

ddavitt: lucylou is hosting a meeting she said

BPRAL22169: They mightnever have noticed one of the 'tec worlds -- it's earth but how would you tell it apart?

SCIFIMUSIC: this is great! I'm being shy tonight

BPRAL22169: I don't see LucyLou online.

SCIFIMUSIC: Just finished my first RAH book SiSL

AGplusone: wow!

Major oz: I envy you

Major oz: so much ahead

ddavitt: great! Did you like it?

SCIFIMUSIC: I was hooked immediately

AGplusone: how absolutely great ... about 39 novels to go

DavidWrightSr: I told Linda how much I envied her, with all of the RAH world ahead of her

SCIFIMUSIC: started Star Ship Trooper tonight

Major oz: my favorite

Doc4Kidz: Linda brought her child to my office MOnday, and casually asked if I'd ever read anything by Heinlein!!!

BPRAL22169: Oh, you're starting out with the heavy hittes.

AGplusone: no one's going to accuse you of picking the easy ones to start

DavidWrightSr: OZ. Jane said she would send me a copy of the log up to where I came back in, but wasn't sure she did it right, so could you save a copy too and e-mail it to me after the chat, just to make sure that I don't miss anything.

Doc4Kidz: Major it;s my favorite too, and I had mentioned that

SCIFIMUSIC: the more "mind altering" the better

Major oz: hokay, david......how do you do it?

Major oz: remember, I get dunped after 120 minutes

AGplusone: try Job:A Comedy of Justice, for your mind-altering next one

BPRAL22169: Or Time Enough For Love.

SCIFIMUSIC: I check it out

Major oz: I have only 22 minutes to go.

AGplusone: followed by I Will Fear No Evil!

DavidWrightSr: click on File then Save and then attach the file to an e-mail. Ok about 120. just need up to now .

ddavitt: let me try and email it to you David

SCIFIMUSIC: I just got time through the past off ebay

BPRAL22169: Past Through Tomorrow?

SCIFIMUSIC: yes,,,that's it

BPRAL22169: The SF Book Club has just brought out a new edition of that one. Rather nicer than their usual.

SCIFIMUSIC: see I new at this

AGplusone: great collection of many of his greatest short stories and novela

ddavitt: i sent it

BPRAL22169: Plus the novel Methuselah's Children.

DavidWrightSr: Thanks Jane.

BPRAL22169: So you won't need to purchase that one separately.

ddavitt: Just say if we lose you with all the abbreviations

AGplusone: you say to-may-to, and I say to-mah-to, Bill

DavidWrightSr: Looks like I'll have to join the SF book club again. my copies are in terrible shape

ddavitt: It speeds things up but can get confusing

BPRAL22169: Pffffft!

SCIFIMUSIC: I don't think I'll be able to read them fast enough

ddavitt: One thing about the net; no accents..

BPRAL22169: Incidentally, David, we need to set a time to meet with Robert this weekend.

ddavitt: Don't try! make 'em last :-)

Doc4Kidz: just British spelling

AGplusone: Try 10 AM?

BPRAL22169: Sun?

ddavitt: You mean, the correct way i assume

AGplusone: Saturday or Sunday, whatever you want

BPRAL22169 has left the room.

Doc4Kidz: beats what I grew up with in Brooklyn!

DavidWrightSr: Thanks Jane. I just got it. No need to send it OZ. I got it from Jane. Thanks anyway

BPRAL22169 has entered the room.

ddavitt: It worked! I'm getting better at this...

AGplusone: Pick Sat or Sun, whichever, Bill

BPRAL22169: Sunday, I think -- will you talk to RJ, or shall I?

SCIFIMUSIC: hey, gotta go, thanks for letting in.....

AGplusone: Let's both of us e mail him

BPRAL22169: I'll bring yor copies of the Journal.

DavidWrightSr: Linda. if you want, give me your e-mail address and I'll add your name to the mailing list for the notices for the log which I send out after every discussion.

BPRAL22169: OK -- will do.

BPRAL22169: Rose Cafe again?

AGplusone: yes

BPRAL22169: OK.

AGplusone: And we'll have a nice mimosa to all of you.

ddavitt: Oh, is it ready?

ddavitt: i like them! Buck's Fizz we call them

ddavitt: Night linda, thanks for coming

AGplusone: You have to tell David that Los Angeles is a nice vacation venue, Jane

ddavitt: He goes to SF on business

ddavitt: Not been sent to LA yet

ddavitt: If he does, I'll come too

BPRAL22169: No matter why you go to San Francisco, it's always for pleasure!

AGplusone: Well, that's easy ... just tell the airline to divert a few miles ... Pacific SW Airlines runs every half hour

Major oz: come back soon, Linda

DavidWrightSr: Bill. what is the subscription cost. I've got some spare cash now.

ddavitt: I'll tell him that :-)

SCIFIMUSIC: i will!

BPRAL22169: $15 a year. 1st 5 issues are $5 each. 6, 7, 8 are $7.50 each.

AGplusone: Please do, Linda

ddavitt: Yes, buy this one dave; I'm in it :-):-)

ddavitt: <shameless plug>

BPRAL22169: Do you need the address?

AGplusone: shameless somethin' ...

BPRAL22169: Just shameless. that's all.

ddavitt: meaning? <g>

Major oz: And here we thought you were consumed with mothering duties.

DavidWrightSr: Thanks.yes to address. I'll send a check for the back issues and then get a sub later.

AGplusone: Has Stephen got that website back up yet?

ddavitt: How dod you think you get to be a mother?

BPRAL22169: 602 W. Bennett Ave. Glendora, CA 91741.

DavidWrightSr: Thanks.

Major oz: .....mum....

ddavitt: He says so and the pics of lsauren and Eleanor should be there this weekend

BPRAL22169: By writing for the Journal, jane? The things you learn!

SCIFIMUSIC has left the room.

AGplusone: have link ... what I have hasn't worked last couple of times

ddavitt: Oh, you! ( as Eleanor would say)

AGplusone: ??

ddavitt: Which Stephen? Are we at xpurpsoes?

Doc4Kidz: I;m going to go too, see you soon

AGplusone: StephenVeiss

BPRAL22169: brb

AGplusone: the faces to voices AFH page

Major oz: c ya doc

AGplusone: see ya, Doc

ddavitt: night

ddavitt: Yes, he is updating it this weekend

ddavitt: if the link changes he will tell afh

Doc4Kidz: night

Doc4Kidz has left the room.

ddavitt: i sent him pics of my daughters to add to the page

Major oz: I will be scanning a pic to the f to v page soon.

Major oz: ma and the cat, DC3

Major oz: ma = me

ddavitt: great! nice to put faces to words...surprisng sometimes...

ddavitt: Oh yes, gotta have the cats!

ddavitt: mine are a lot bigger than their picture on the page now.

AGplusone: Bob the Magnificent!

Major oz: ?

ddavitt: Hey; the chat has gone OT; I'm a failure as hostess :-(

Major oz: dat yer cat ?

AGplusone: who incidentally is sleeping on my bed right now

ddavitt: He's lovely AG; I like black cats

Major oz: but a conniseur of tea and busquits

Major oz: e

ddavitt: Macallan likes peas

AGplusone: Only kind ... you should hear my wife and daughter cackle when they put him on their brooms every All Hallows Eve

ddavitt: My last black cat was Rudegar the Little vampire; his eye teeth showed

ddavitt: He's lost one now; getting very old:-(

ddavitt: About 15 i think

DavidWrightSr: My cat Paintbrush is 21 or 22 years old.

AGplusone: Sean wanted a chat on Cats ... anyone ask him to get ready to host one?

ddavitt: He lives with my parents

Major oz: DC sits on a shelf above my desk, right under the lamp

ddavitt: No...but we could work it in between the author chats

ddavitt: I got another library sale book; Sheffield and Pournelle, Higher Education

Major oz: It usually becomes as interesting as discussions of grendchildren.

ddavitt: Says on the back it's like a Heinlein juvenile

ddavitt: Anyone read it?

BPRAL22169: Sheffield might be another good author to invite.

Major oz: title is Higher Education ?

ddavitt: Think so; i jsut grab em in a frenzy at a sale, battering old ladies to the ground...:-)

Major oz: .....with Laurin in a belly pouch?

Dehede011 has entered the room.

Major oz: :-)

Dehede011: Howdy

DavidWrightSr: I haven't had a chance to try to contact Crais or Rosenberg yet. Been snowed under with work and going to a funeral tomorrow. Will try to get the contacts made tomorrow night. My apologies.

ddavitt: She comes in handy to trip them up wjhen she's in her car seat

Major oz: welcome de

BPRAL22169: Hi, Ron

ddavitt: No worries dave

ddavitt: Hi Ron

Dehede011: Hi, Y'all

ddavitt: We are talking about anything other than the NOTB

ddavitt: :-):-)

BPRAL22169: See what a good investment kids are?

BPRAL22169: Well, this world IS one of the Worlds of NOTB...

AGplusone: Anyone know what "MilPhil" is?

ddavitt: Hmm...have you seen how much diapers cost?

Dehede011: NOTB, fine novel by RAH??

ddavitt: Nope

ddavitt: True...and not world zero

BPRAL22169: Number of the Beast.

DavidWrightSr: 'Miltary Philosophy' ?

ddavitt: Did anyone else get a shock when it became appareent deety and Co weren't from our world either?

Dehede011: Right, I was just reading it over the last week.

Major oz: A millenium con in Philly?

BPRAL22169: Slightly OT I've alwas found it interesting that Heinlein always disses this universe -- same for Elsewhen

ddavitt: Good! So you understand all the twists and turns then/ <smile>

DavidWrightSr: or 'Militant Philologists'?

AGplusone: evidently it's got some kind of workshop scheduled for teachers who are planning to decide whether to work a workshop for Farmer in the Sky

ddavitt: He said the infant mortality was awful but a nice world otherwise

Major oz: In CWWTW he has respect for this one.

ddavitt: With carter as the President which shockes Zeb !

Major oz: .....if this is the Neil Armstrong one.

AGplusone: Phillip Owenby and I got copied about what ideas to present the panel on it. anyone here interested in helping out?

BPRAL22169: I forget -- was the TMIAHM our timeline? I know Stranger was.

Dehede011: BRB

AGplusone: work or create a workshop to use in school

ddavitt: NIAHM not the same as SIASL i don't think

ddavitt: What does it entail AG?

BPRAL22169: It's a good idea, David.

AGplusone: Dunno, exactly, but I can introduce you to the e group that's going into it, Jane.

ddavitt: If you think I can be any use

BPRAL22169: We should collect reports from such projects for the Society.

Dehede011: back

ddavitt: i've still not joined...:-)

Major oz: Is this the group developing materials for school teachers to use for RAH stuff?

AGplusone: I'll copy you the e mail I got ... and write to the group moderator and ask him to expect to seeyou on their boards (now at Yahoo)

AGplusone: That's what this is heading towards

ddavitt: It's a bit expensive but i don't know if I qualify for the $15 rate

AGplusone: Oz and Bill

BPRAL22169: Incidentally, I noticed LucyLou is online now.

ddavitt: She said she had to reinstall AIm

DavidWrightSr: Still not there yet, apparently.

Major oz: Has anyone thought to contact similar groups extant for other authors to get ideas about structure, function, etc?

ddavitt: That was supposed to be a :-( btw

BPRAL22169: Incidentally, I lost my copy of Rainbow Mars halfway through -- do any of Heinlein's Mars show up in that book?

ddavitt: Didn't we look at some other sites for wells and twain?

ddavitt: Couldn't get into that at all...

AGplusone: The e group started out of a project begun by Benford and Brin and somebody else beginning with "B" Oz

ddavitt: I'm sorry but i have to go now ; see you Saturday if I can.

Major oz has left the room.

DavidWrightSr: Night Jane.

Dehede011: Nite, Jane

ddavitt has left the room.

AGplusone: What wrote Rainbow Mars?

DavidWrightSr: Was that a combination of Red, Green and Blue Mars O:-)

AGplusone: I have Red and Blue and Green Mars by Kim

BPRAL22169: Larry Niven -- it's a book-length Svetz story.

AGplusone: what I was wondering

AGplusone: how come there's no 'devil grin'

DavidWrightSr: You're right, there is not one. Hmm

BPRAL22169: I haven't loaded up 6.0 yet.

AGplusone: AOL doesn't want anyone complaining about Satanism!

BPRAL22169: *Sigh* i'd like to think that was humor . . . but it probably aint.

AGplusone: 'tain't

BPRAL22169: I was afraid of that.

Dehede011: Are they seriously surpressing satanism

AGplusone: We ought to try to figure what of the old books RAH referred to in Number would be banned by school boards today ...

AGplusone: AOL jumps whenever anyone squeaks

Dehede011: Damn, I meant to search my files for that material I had on RAH's name dropping in NOTB

AGplusone: The sixth novel of the Lens series would definitely have to go ...

AGplusone: and all those references to bearing eggs in The Princess of Mars

DavidWrightSr: Well, we know Twain was a racist subversive, so that would have to go.

BPRAL22169: I don't know -- in a world where people ban Huckleberry Finn for its "racism" anything can happen.

DavidWrightSr: GMTA

BPRAL22169: yup

Dehede011: I always get a kick out of Huck Finn. I grew up speaking that dialect and that is pure put on.

AGplusone: 'everything changes, everything stays the same ... ' poor Willis and her procreative habits

DavidWrightSr: Actually, I suspect that most of what interested RAH would be considered 'subversive' by somebody.

Dehede011: He was needling the heck out of racists.

AGplusone: my observation was that the thicker it got the more put-on it was ... wall, yeessir, sonnie ... ya kin git to Tulane if'n ya go down thisyar road, but ...

AGplusone: and then they kindly put you back on the road going back to Ft. Benning

DavidWrightSr: Alice was always 'drinking' or 'eating' strange drugs

Dehede011: Right, but I wasn't born too many years after he was taking notes for that dialog. That is what we spoke.

AGplusone: Fer sure ...

AGplusone: The harsh cornbelt accent on tape would be something to listen to ...

AGplusone: Missouri

Dehede011: When I was a kid I could easily speak that dialog without coaching.

AGplusone: yet, that's what purportedly Twain is writing in the Finn and Sawyer books

DavidWrightSr: Makes you wonder how English teachers ever considered it a classic.

Dehede011: Did you ever read the story of how Twain whipped his boss when he was a cub steamboat driver?

Dehede011: That was in our county seat

AGplusone: In Life on the Mississippi

Dehede011: I forget.

AGplusone: oncet

DavidWrightSr: That was the inspiration for Simes in Starman Jones wasn't it?

AGplusone: Yes ...

AGplusone: according to Freeboottr

BPRAL22169: John LeGere suggested that in "Navigators."

BPRAL22169: gmta

AGplusone: and I agree with that

Dehede011: It happened at New Madrid, Mo.

AGplusone: this is the link to that Yahoo teachers group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rffcon1

AGplusone: use my name wisely for entry if you need it

Dehede011: Did you ever read the story about how Jesse James was fed by a widow woman that needed money to pay the mortgage. It was a desperately immediate situation

AGplusone: David, what level does you son now teach at?

AGplusone: your

AGplusone: No, didn't, Ron ...

DavidWrightSr: My oldest son left high school teaching to go back and finish his Masters. the youngest is working on his Ph.D and teaches beginning drama history.

AGplusone: college then

Dehede011: He supposedly gave the money to the widow then hid down the road and robbed the money back after she had the receipt.

DavidWrightSr: right. undergraduate class. He is going to go to England this summer to visit Will's places etc.

AGplusone: this teacher's group is trying to prepare high school level syllabi (?) I think, based on sci-fi

BPRAL22169: And library work, iirc. Greg Benford talked about that on one of the Heinlein panels we were on a couple years ago.

AGplusone: notion I suppose is to get students to read sci-fi in school

DavidWrightSr: I'll mention it to them. Both are big Heinlein fans. Wonder how that happened?

[Editor's note: Short portion of log lost]

AGplusone: Guess we can lock up?

DavidWrightSr: Damn. Did it to me again. Did the others get kicked off too?

AGplusone: No, they left voluntarily

AGplusone: You have log?

DavidWrightSr: Ok. Up to where I dropped. But I guess nothing happened after that.

AGplusone: No, nuthin' except byes and bad jokes

AGplusone: Good night David

DavidWrightSr: Ok, Then I guess we'll call it a night. Good night Chet

AGplusone: and good night for NBC News

DavidWrightSr: Log officially closed at 11:06 P.M. EST

AGplusone: :-)

Final End Of Discussion Log

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