Heinlein Reader’s Discussion Group Thursday 03-21-2002 9:00 P.M. EST Guest Author Robert Crais

Heinlein Reader’s Discussion Group

Thursday 03-21-2002 9:00 P.M. EST

Guest Author Robert Crais

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Here Begin The A.F.H. postings
Robert Heinlein Reading Group chat

Theme: Guest author Robert Crais

Dates and times: Thursday, March 21, 2002, 9 PM to 11, EST

(note the abbreviated time)

Chat Host: Agplusone

Place: AIM chatroom “Heinlein Readers Group chat”

To attend our chats, and any reasonable person is welcome, you may receive instructions on how to download and use AIM freeware on the website located at

http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html

Email me, or or Dave Wright, Sr, if you require further help getting the freeware or getting into the room.

For the next one week in pre-meeting posts, before the meeting, we can discuss any of the Crais novels, as we wish; but the latest two which we haven’t discussed in depth are the novels Demolition Angel (PB ISBN 0-345-43448-X, Ballentine, 2000, NYC) and Hostage (HB ISBN 0-385-49585-4, Doubleday, 2001).

Neither novel involves the Hollywood private detective duo of Elvis Cole and Joe Pike: instead Demolition Angel follows the investigation by LAPD detective Carol Starkey, herself a former bomb demolition technician, of the murder of another LAPD bomb demolition technician; and Hostage follows the rescue of two children and their father from their home in a small, remote LA suburb by Jeff Talley, police chief of the little town, who, himself, is a former hostage negotiator from the LAPD.

Both books can be seen as variations on a theme of whether their protagonists can recover from drastic professional failure over which neither had substantial control. Both Starkey and Talley are job burn-outs: Starkey was the unlikely survivor of a bomb that an earthquake detonated while she and her partner were x-raying it, killing her partner and lover, stopping her own heart, both literally and figuratively. After long physical recovery she tries to hide her alcoholism, nightmares and depression, while hanging on to police officer’s job that is all that remains of her life. Talley was the negotiator of a barricade situation that went south, as they say. A hostage killed his own wife, young son, and then suicided despite Talley’s best efforts. He resigned from the LAPD after that incident but after a year of sitting on the couch in depression is now trying to find himself in a second career as the chief of a podunk desert suburb, while relationships with his own wife and child continues to disintegrate amid his continued depression.

There’s lots to discuss in these two novels, neither connected except peripherally through Los Angeles with Crais’ other novels. There are excerpts of these novels to give you a taste for them on Mr. Crais’ website at www.robertcrais.com . . . I’m sure you can find them; but I imagine there’s been sufficient time to obtain and read one or both of these fine novels, and discuss them without worrying unduly about spoilers.

For one thing that intrigues me: Crais has developed an interesting sort of female prototype character in his last few novels, referring to Robbery-Homicide Detective Samantha Dolan (from L.A. Requiem), CCS Detective Carol Starkey (the protagonist of Demolition Angel), and LASD Captain Laura Martin (from Hostage), all of whom I think have something in common.

How typical are these three women of the officers today serving in our police departments, or for that matter of today’s new generation of professional women? Are they like unto the uberfraus Robert Heinlein is by some readers taken to task for creating in his novels? What, if anything, makes them more than mere clones of an unrealistic ideal or simple construct, placed in different roles in different novels? What, if anything, makes them worthwhile portrayals of their own characters in these novels?

What else can be seen in these novels? What strengths? What weaknesses? What development is taking place in the writer’s own method of authoring his writings?

The floor is open for answers to these questions, or other questions of your own. As always, the more pre-meeting posts, the better the chats.

See you in a week in the chat room where we will welcome our guest,

Robert Crais.


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

I am going through the Crais books I have, locating the Heinlein references.

In _Stalking The Angel_ 1989, we have this;

‘A blonde boy with long straight hair and a little blue cross
tattoed on the back of his left hand was sitting behind the counter.
He was reading a worn-out, spine-rolled copy of Robert Heinlein’s
Stranger In A Strange Land. He looked up when we walked in.
‘Hi,” I said. ‘We’re here to see Carol.”
The blond kid closed the Heinlein on a finger, said he’d tell
Carol and came around the counter to take the stairs up two at a time.’

Carol runs a half way house for runaway children. I don’t know how much the book mentioned fits into this….but for kids who think they have problems and that they’re different, it sure is a comforting book in many ways.

In that same book, not a Heinlein reference but a clue to Elvis’s character caught my eye. He’s an irritating sort of man in many ways becasue of his constant joking…it could wear thin after a while. Pike explains it by telling Elvis,

“Ever since the Nam, you’ve worked to hang on to the childhood part
of you.”

Now this is interesting because the children that we meet in this book are far from light hearted jokesters.The main teenager accuses her father of raping her and shoots him for instance. Possibly she’s lying too. Elvis might think that the refusal to take things seriously is childlike but in many ways it’s not. Children take some things very seriously, too seriously in fact. They haven’t acquired the armour that adults have, the cushioning that stops the 6.00 News from giving you nightmares as you see in full colour the evil and violence in the world, reported dispassionately by a face and shoulders.

In _Lullaby Town_ 1992 we have a Heinlein reference in where Elvis lives; most of the books have this and you need to read _And He Built A Crooked House_ and know LL’s real name to appreciate it.

‘The sun was dropping fast, the way it does in the fall, and the air
lost its midday warmth and took on an autumnal chill as I wound my
way up laurel Canyon to the little A-frame I keep off Woodrow Wilson
Drive above Hollywood.’

Later in the book we learn that Karen’s son goes to Woodrow Wilson Smith Elementary School too. And another character hint, this time about Pike. He and Elvis are walking through Central park and Cole asks Pike if he would be scared in there at night. Pike replies no and adds,

“I have the capacity for great violence.”

A moment later he says,

“I remember being afraid. I was very young.”

It’s not until L.A Requiem that we learn more about that.

So if you can cause pain, you don’t fear it being inflicted on you? Is this really so? What does this say about Joe?

I have more books to speed read in search of Heinlein bits (I’ve read them all a few times before so I’m not spoiling the end 🙂 so I’ll continue this later.

Jane


http://www.heinleinsociety.org

Jane Davitt wrote:

>I am going through the Crais books I have, locating the Heinlein references.
>

[snip]

There are, in addition to Heinlein references, allusions to other writers and writings. I also noted at least one “Tuckerism” in Demoliton Angel. At a certain point, it is reported that “Mr. Red” the bomber Starkey seeks to track down and capture has been planting bombs to destroy the premier bomb technicians. Two are identified by name: one of those is “Michael Cassutt.”

Mr. Cassutt is a science fiction writer, having published several novels and short stories, as well as a screen writer, with various credits going back to the mid-1970s, beginning with “Alice” but continuing with various science fiction scripts, and including (I really shouldn’t mention this) some episides of Beverly Hills 90291.

See, bibliography: http://www.sfsite.com/isfdb-bin/pbiblio.cgi?Michael_Cassutt filmography: http://us.imdb.com/Name?Cassutt,%20Michael

I’ve met Michael, various times and places, including last September’s PhilCon, and we invited him to the dinner we held in honor of Robert Heinlein at Bookbinders after the blood drive Saturday evening. Michael is a well-known, long-time Heinlein fan; and assisted in blood drives held years ago with Robert and Ginny. Last summer while I was reading Demolition Angel the first time, I noted the Tuckerism to him while we were watching Connie Willis sign books at Dangerous Visions in North Hollywood, and asked him why Robert Crais “blew him up,” if he knew. He just grinned and said he knew.

You might watch for other Tuckerisms.


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

In addition to Tuckerisms, I sometimes wonder about the names Crais choses for his characters. “Elvis” Cole is easy. It’s tough to doubly be the King. Carol Starkey’s last name is interesting. There’s an entertainer named Richard Starkey, more commonly known as Ringo Starr. His birthday happens to be 7/7/40. RAH’s birthday as we all know was 7/7/07. Coincidence? Well, Ringo’s first wife’s birthday was August 4. So’s mine! Coincidence? I think not! This way lies madness.

Joe Pike’s last name is descriptive in a way of him. Perhaps coincidentially, one of the more memorable characters in a seminal western, Sam Peckinpaugh’s The Wild Bunch, was also named Pike (the Bill Holden character). Further madness from the source below may follow . . .


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

“Jane Davitt” wrote in message

>
>Carol runs a half way house for runaway children. I don’t know how
>much the book (SiaSL) mentioned fits into this….but for kids who think
>they have problems and that they’re different, it sure is a
>comforting book in many ways.

I believe my life might have been different had a read SiaSL in grade school instead of college. I was a complete outsider, a bit too involved in a very conservative church and very judgmental in my own way, especially about sex.


Bill Dennis
http://peoriatimesobserver.com
http://billdennis.net

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 04:04:04 GMT, David Silverwrote:

>Jane Davitt wrote:
>
>>I am going through the Crais books I have, locating the Heinlein references.
>[snip]
>
>
>There are, in addition to Heinlein references, allusions to other
>writers and writings. I also noted at least one “Tuckerism” in Demoliton
>Angel.

SNIP SNIP

Sooooo?

Why did he demolish Michael C?

By the way, I finally got around to reading both Requiem in LA and Demolition this weekend.

Please remind, were there previous mentions of Mr. Red and his use of Kip Russel and Oscar and Peewee?

I chuckled when I read those.

And I think I noted something else but, am having a senior moment at the moment —– and, I am sad to say, but I missed the reference to Michael C. —Mac I wrote:

>In addition to Tuckerisms, I sometimes wonder about the names Crais
>choses for his characters.

I did promise further madness about names, didn’t I?

In Demolition Angel, the true name of “Mr. Red,” the serial bomber is John Michael Fowles.

John *R.* Fowles is a well-known author, an Englishman who writes the cerebral novel I sometimes have difficulty enjoying. Or remembering very clearly. Some years ago I blew through The French Lieutenant’s Woman and The Collector, two of his, and possibly, although I have little recollection of them, The Magnus. Both The Collector and The Magnus have been made into films. Fowles has written other works as well.

It would be pretty hard, simply by coincidence to come up with John Fowles as a name for a character; but then there’s that “Michael” again.

Heinlein’s works are replete with loaded character names. Anyone have any guesses of what reason Robert Crais might have for choosing the name of a well-known English author for his villain? What little I recall of The Collector is it involved a serial kidnapper of women — “Mr. Red” is a serial bomber — does that go anywhere? Or do any of the other novels by Fowles lead anywhere?


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

David Silver wrote:

>Jane Davitt wrote:
>
>>I am going through the Crais books I have, locating the Heinlein
>>references.
>>
>
>
>
>[snip]
>
>
>There are, in addition to Heinlein references, allusions to other
>writers and writings. I also noted at least one “Tuckerism” in Demoliton
>Angel. At a certain point, it is reported that “Mr. Red” the bomber
>Starkey seeks to track down and capture has been planting bombs to
>destroy the premier bomb technicians. Two are identified by name: one of
>those is “Michael Cassutt.”
>
>Mr. Cassutt is a science fiction writer, having published several novels
>and short stories, as well as a screen writer, with various credits
>going back to the mid-1970s, beginning with “Alice” but continuing with
>various science fiction scripts, and including (I really shouldn’t
>mention this) some episides of Beverly Hills 90291.
>
>See,
>bibliography:
>http://www.sfsite.com/isfdb-bin/pbiblio.cgi?Michael_Cassutt
>filmography:
>http://us.imdb.com/Name?Cassutt,%20Michael
>
>
>I’ve met Michael, various times and places, including last September’s
>PhilCon, and we invited him to the dinner we held in honor of Robert
>Heinlein at Bookbinders after the blood drive Saturday evening. Michael
>is a well-known, long-time Heinlein fan; and assisted in blood drives
>held years ago with Robert and Ginny. Last summer while I was reading
>Demolition Angel the first time, I noted the Tuckerism to him while we
>were watching Connie Willis sign books at Dangerous Visions in North
>Hollywood, and asked him why Robert Crais “blew him up,” if he knew. He
>just grinned and said he knew.
>
>You might watch for other Tuckerisms.
>

Oh, and by the way, the other identified bomb technician killed by Mr. Red is “Alan Brennart.” Search machines such as hotbot.com are wonderful devices: Alan Brennart is also a published novelist and screenwriter.

See, http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Alan_Brennert.htm

Four novels and several short stories, including the Nebula award for best short story in 1991, “Ma Qui.” He’s also a past producer of L.A. Law, and scriptwriter for China Beach, the 80s Twilight Zone, and Outer Limits; and he has written as well for the theatre.


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

I know there are plenty of Janet Evanovich fans here, as well as Robert Crais ones and I just thought I’d throw this idea into the mix. The recent issue of Plum News, Janet’s newsletter, has a photo of her at the LA Times Festival of Books in April 2001. Beside Janet is a fellow panel member who’s making rabbit ears behind her head; Bob Crais. Obviously they know each other 🙂

Without making any suggestions of plagiarism, unoriginality or anything else and I mean that, this is just an observation…does anyone see a slight similarity in the set ups? Particularly, do Ranger and Joe Morelli add up to Joe Pike with wisecracking Stephanie in the Elvis role? And if so, does this mean that it’s a good formula for reader pleasing books?

We are told that Ricardo Carlos Manoso is a second generation Cuban American who used to be in Special Forces. He changes a lot over the seven books (eighth out soon) but when Stephanie meets him for the first time, this is what she sees,

>”His straight black hair was slicked back in a ponytail. His biceps
looked like they’d been carved out of granite and buffed up with
Armor All. He was around 5′ 10″ with a muscular neck and a
don’t-mess-with-me body. I placed him in his late twenties.”

Here’s one of Pike when he joins up, from L A Requiem,

“He was tall, maybe about six one, all lean and corded and burned
tan by the Southern Californian sun. His face and hands were covered
in cammie greasepaint, but he had the damnedest blue eyes Aimes had
ever seen, real white-boy ice-people eyes.”

Different – yet the same air of strength and determination. Ranger was Special Forces, Pike joins Force Recon, “Force Recon warriors are the finest warriors on this earth, and I don’t give a rat’s ass what those squid SEAL’s and green beanies over in the Army’s Special Forces got to say about it.”

Now I know zilch about what these units are and do (I’ve heard of SEAL’s but that’s about it) but I imagine this is, in a back handed way, an equating of the three, no matter what Gunnery Sergeant Aimes says. I will now retreat hastily as this group knows more about this and will probably leap on me from a great height to explain away my ignorance :-))

Pike then joins the police force. Joe Morelli is also a policeman (again I’m hampered by not knowing all the ranks and such very well, Pike is in uniform, Morelli isn’t). Ranger and Steph are both bounty hunters for a bail bondsman which gets them involved in Elvis type adventures. This links in with Pike being Elvis’s partner as a P.I since Steph usually ends up investigating a murderer, tailing and questioning suspects, that sort of thing. Her cars get blown up more than Elvis’s do.

Anyway, I think both authors share something with each other and with Heinlein; the knack for creating characters who are wildly improbable on the face of it yet seem to be real enough that if you went to L.A you feel as if you could walk up to Elvis’s office and share a beer with him, no problem. They’re also good at knocking down the walls between male and female marketed books. Both authors appeal to both sexes even though the traditional P.I books were probably aimed at men and the romance in the Plum books is a female province (Evanovich used to write romances, some under other names. I’ve read one and you can tell it’s by her). Heinlein too was writing in a genre that’s traditionally for male readers (girls get the unicorns and elves) but there are plenty of female readers who appreciate his books and the type of women characters that he wrote about.

Jane


http://www.heinleinsociety.org

Jane Davitt wrote:

>I know there are plenty of Janet Evanovich fans here, as well as Robert
>Crais ones and I just thought I’d throw this idea into the mix.
>The recent issue of Plum News, Janet’s newsletter, has a photo of her at
>the LA Times Festival of Books in April 2001. Beside Janet is a fellow
>panel member who’s making rabbit ears behind her head; Bob Crais.
>Obviously they know each other 🙂
>

Since the LA Times Festival of Books will again be held next month, I’ll amble over to my alma mater, UCLA, in April and see whether he does that to her again. 🙂

I had a phone conversation with Robert Crais last night, while he downloaded and installed AIM software, tested it to make sure he could find the “Heinlein Readers Group chat room” and made sure it works. I had noted uptread that Mr. Crais used Tuckerisms to introduce the names of other mystery-detective or science fiction novelists and screenwriters into his books. It, and other evidence such as dedications back and forth among some of them, led me, elsewhere, to wonder whether a sort of “Mañana Literary Society” today exists in the Southern California area among dectective-mystery writers who reside in this area.

The Mañana Literary Society was what Robert Heinlein and others involved called the periodic social gatherings they had back in and around 1940 among the community of science-fiction writers who gathered, at Robert’s and Leslyn’s home and elsewhere, to discuss science fiction and other writings, and partake of potable beverages and other edibles. See, the description in Bill’s biographical sketch, at

http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/rahbio.html

which describes how it even continued on during World War II in Philadelphia when Leslyn and Robert moved there.

Robert Crais told me, answering my inquiry, that yes, in a sense a sort of Southern California group of writers does congregate as did the MLS, for essentially the same purposes, including the consumption of mass quantities, if I may perhaps mischaracterize it that way, while they decompress. I don’t know Ms. Evanovich’s writings, but I suspect Crais would be able to answer whether she participates in today’s version of the MLS at our chat tomorrow evening, as he is looking forward to it — and I hope we’ll make it well-attended.

>Without making any suggestions of plagiarism, unoriginality or anything
>else and I mean that, this is just an observation…does anyone see a
>slight similarity in the set ups? Particularly, do Ranger and Joe
>Morelli add up to Joe Pike with wisecracking Stephanie in the Elvis
>role? And if so, does this mean that it’s a good formula for reader
>pleasing books?
>

I cannot comment about Evanovich’s pair, since I haven’t read the books, but other well-known pairs (John D. MacDonald’s Travis McGee and Meyer; Robert Parker’s Spenser and Hawk; Ross MacDonald’s Artie Wu and Quincy Durant; and others who come to mind, i.e.,: Ed McBain has several pairs of partners in his old 87th Precinct series) enable the author, I think, to avoid the third person narrative voice of expository commentary. If you can set up the comic quip, or a series of ongoing comic quips, between two partners to show the irony of a situation, perhaps it goes down better in the reader’s mind. There’s a little of a subset for this in L.A. Requiem, between patrol car partners, Pike and Wozniak, that gives us a hint of this. The conversation between USMC Gunnery Sergeants Aimes and Horse tells us a lot about Pike, as well.

>We are told that Ricardo Carlos Manoso is a second generation Cuban
>American who used to be in Special Forces.
>He changes a lot over the seven books (eighth out soon) but when
>Stephanie meets him for the first time, this is what she sees,
>
>”His straight black hair was slicked back in a ponytail. His biceps
>looked like they’d been carved out of granite and buffed up with Armor
>All. He was around 5′ 10″ with a muscular neck and a don’t-mess-with-me
>body. I placed him in his late twenties.”
>
>Here’s one of Pike when he joins up, from L A Requiem,
>
>”He was tall, maybe about six one, all lean and corded and burned tan by
>the Southern Californian sun. His face and hands were covered in cammie
>greasepaint, but he had the damnedest blue eyes Aimes had ever seen,
>real white-boy ice-people eyes.”
>
>Different – yet the same air of strength and determination.

You might take a look, if you can find them, at A.A. Fair’s series about detective Donald Lam, a quiet sort who fades into the woodwork if you don’t watch him, yet with the same strength and determination, but not the physical presence of a Pike or Hawk or Spenser, or even Elvis Cole. Tell me what you think about how the author (Robert Heinlein’s friend Erle Stanley Gardner, one of the models for Jubal Harshaw, writing under a pseudonym) conveys that same “air” with Lam?

>Ranger was Special Forces, Pike joins Force Recon,
>”Force Recon warriors are the finest warriors on this earth, and I don’t
>give a rat’s ass what those squid SEAL’s and green beanies over in the
>Army’s Special Forces got to say about it.”
>
>Now I know zilch about what these units are and do (I’ve heard of SEAL’s
>but that’s about it) but I imagine this is, in a back handed way, an
>equating of the three, no matter what Gunnery Sergeant Aimes says. I
>will now retreat hastily as this group knows more about this and will
>probably leap on me from a great height to explain away my ignorance :-))
>

We’re running out of recent wars. I wonder what the future authors of mystery-detective writers will do for backgrounds? Spenser, as Alan Milner keeps pointing out, is a Korean War veteran, and getting quite long in tooth. Vietnam vets are mostly in their fifties, maybe very late forties, these days. Looking down, the tummy tends to poop out a bit at that age unless one awakens each morn to go out on the deck and practice (as Travis McGee, another Korean War vet, did) the exercises used by elderly Chinese gentlemen to keep flexible, or jog from Culver City to the Santa Monica pier and then out Wilshire Boulevard in the middle of the night as Joe Pike does in L.A. Requiem, quite frequently.

Tom Clancy’s “Mr. Clark” was a SEAL, Jane. Two or three of his Jack Ryan books get into what they are and what they do. Basically, instead of eating snakes and parachuting into forests so they can get about climbing tall trees, they eat sea snakes and parachute into the ocean so that can swim great distances and then climb tall trees. The Demi Moore movie, “G.I. Jane” may also give you a taste.

>Pike then joins the police force. Joe Morelli is also a policeman (again
>I’m hampered by not knowing all the ranks and such very well, Pike is in
>uniform, Morelli isn’t). Ranger and Steph are both bounty hunters for a
>bail bondsman which gets them involved in Elvis type adventures. This
>links in with Pike being Elvis’s partner as a P.I since Steph usually
>ends up investigating a murderer, tailing and questioning suspects, that
>sort of thing. Her cars get blown up more than Elvis’s do.
>

She probably runs with a faster crowd. OTOH, maybe someone’s trying to keep her off the road for our safety. 😉 You’ll recall the bad jokes about women drivers?

>Anyway, I think both authors share something with each other and with
>Heinlein; the knack for creating characters who are wildly improbable on
>the face of it yet seem to be real enough that if you went to L.A you
>feel as if you could walk up to Elvis’s office and share a beer with
>him, no problem.

“Wildly improbably” is in the eye of the beholder. The nail that sticks up is the one who stands out; and gets pounded down, very often. But when they succeed, the stories can be both entertaining and maybe enlightening.

>They’re also good at knocking down the walls between male and female
>marketed books. Both authors appeal to both sexes even though the
>traditional P.I books were probably aimed at men and the romance in the
>Plum books is a female province (Evanovich used to write romances, some
>under other names. I’ve read one and you can tell it’s by her). Heinlein
>too was writing in a genre that’s traditionally for male readers (girls
>get the unicorns and elves ) but there are plenty of female readers
>who appreciate his books and the type of women characters that he wrote
>about.
>

Which gets me back to a question I asked early this week:

What did you think, or anyone think, about the three female characters protrayed in Crais’ last three novels? They all seem to have traits in common, but are they different “people” or merely a type?

I’m referring to Samantha Dolan, Carol Starkey, and LASD Captain Laura Martin, of course. How do they stack up to Lucy Chenier, Elvis’ love interest in L.A. Requiem and several earlier books?

I hope everyone is looking forward and planning to attend the chat for the author’s visit tomorrow evening.


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

David Silver wrote:

>
>
>Which gets me back to a question I asked early this week:
>
>What did you think, or anyone think, about the three female characters
>protrayed in Crais’ last three novels? They all seem to have traits in
>common, but are they different “people” or merely a type?
>
>I’m referring to Samantha Dolan, Carol Starkey, and LASD Captain Laura
>Martin, of course. How do they stack up to Lucy Chenier, Elvis’ love
>interest in L.A. Requiem and several earlier books?
>
>
>
>I hope everyone is looking forward and planning to attend the chat for
>the author’s visit tomorrow evening.
>

I’ve only read Hostage once and wasn’t as taken with it..though the young boy and his sister evoked shades of Poddy and Clark. I can’t remember much about Laura.

Sam and Carol are both rather tortured souls..Lucy seems to have less on her plate. Maybe that makes her less interesting as a character? Or a bit less angsty and therefore more comfortable? She’s still strong and self reliant. Few of the female characters in the Crais books are droopy. Even the one who starts out that way in _The Monkey’s Raincoat_, unable to even write a cheque because her husband dealt with all that (which struck me as an odd example; it’s not exactly rocket science and she was presented as being intelligent enough) well, even she turned out to be tougher than her bossy controlling friend. And Elvis got to sleep with both of them, professional ethics about clients not applying to P.I’s I guess

There are a few examples of women who turned themselves around in the Elvis books – almost reinvented themselves for the better. Starkey doesn’t do that as much as put the pieces back together in a slightly different pattern. She has to. Some of the original bits just aren’t there anymore and will never return. Not her physical scars, which are rendered beautiful by her blind lover who ‘sees’ them in great detail and loves them because they are part of her. No; she has gone up against death too many times for her survivor self to have more than a passing acquaintance with the Carol before the blast or even the Carol who watched the counter tick down to zero on a bomb beside her. The book ends with us meeting a new Carol, almost unrecognisable from the pill popping, alcoholic and dangerously edgy character in most of the story. That theme doesn’t play out with Lucy..not yet anyway. She’s relatively static. And Sam of course, never quite got the chance to change 🙁

Jane


http://www.heinleinsociety.org

David Silver hopes:

>
>I hope everyone is looking forward and planning to attend the chat for
>the author’s visit tomorrow evening.

David and Everyone,

Much as I was looking forward to visiting in the AIM Chat tomorrow night with Robert Crais, I will be unable to attend.

We have been hit with blizzard-like conditions and I need to be at work. Such is the life in healthcare. I will miss chatting and am horribly saddened at not being able to tell Mr. Crais how much the hubby and I have been enjoying his books for the past three weeks. We have managed to get through almost all of them.

I’ll catch up later. Thanks

TreetopAngel (Elizabeth)

TreetopAngel wrote:

>David Silver hopes:
>
>>I hope everyone is looking forward and planning to attend the chat for
>>the author’s visit tomorrow evening.
>>
[snip]
>
>We have been hit with blizzard-like conditions and I need to be at
>work. Such is the life in healthcare. I will miss chatting and am
>horribly saddened at not being able to tell Mr. Crais how much the
>hubby and I have been enjoying his books for the past three weeks. We
>have managed to get through almost all of them.
>
>I’ll catch up later. Thanks

We’ll pass on your regrets, Elizabeth.

I’m sure Mr. Crais will miss you as well. If conditions change . . . 😉


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

Jane Davitt wrote:

>David Silver wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Which gets me back to a question I asked early this week:
>>
>>What did you think, or anyone think, about the three female characters
>>protrayed in Crais’ last three novels? They all seem to have traits in
>>common, but are they different “people” or merely a type?
>>
>>I’m referring to Samantha Dolan, Carol Starkey, and LASD Captain Laura
>>Martin, of course. How do they stack up to Lucy Chenier, Elvis’ love
>>interest in L.A. Requiem and several earlier books?
>>
>>

[snip]

>
>I’ve only read Hostage once and wasn’t as taken with it..though the
>young boy and his sister evoked shades of Poddy and Clark. I can’t
>remember much about Laura.

Jennifer and Thomas Smith are far less examples of an extreme and far more examples of typical teens than Poddy and Clark. Jennifer is not as bright, nor certainly was she ever as naive as Poddy. Thomas is not a sociopath, merely a bright, somewhat brave but immature chance-taking kid — the sort that used to hop freights at grade crossings. He’s brave because he hasn’t figured out how easy he can slip and die — about par for the course for a twelve-year-old. When he does realize it, when he discovers the body, his reaction is very typical of twelve-year-old boys. Clark wouldn’t have said a word, but moved silently onward in his mission. Jennifer has far more steel in her than Poddy ever had, but she’s had a lazy life, unchallenged by adversity. She works herself into the state of mind that, where as she demonstrates, when she was forced to it, she scratched Mars on the way down. A kitten about to be snapped in two by a mastiff when rescue from an unexpected source intervenes.

Captain Martin is far less sympathetic a figure than either Samantha Dolan or Carol Starkey — she is after all a villainess, black-mailed into it probably but she has a lot in common with Sam and Carol.

>Sam and Carol are both rather tortured souls..Lucy seems to have less on
>her plate. Maybe that makes her less interesting as a character? Or a
>bit less angsty and therefore more comfortable? She’s still strong and
>self reliant.

Laura Martin, Sam Dolan, and Carol Starkey all have something to worry about that Lucy Chenier needs to worry about. The demands of their profession. Very few lawyers die in courtrooms, except perhaps of heart attacks. Less are called upon to evidence, daily, weekly, monthly, or even annually, physical courage. Martin, Dolan, and Starkey all are required to compete not only mentally but physically with men, indeed their job demands it. They carry guns and are expected to use them. Lawyers, even highly paranoid ones, rarely do so. And if your lawyer ever tells you he carries and expects to use it, uh, . . . appropro of nothing whatever, the profession of law is very numerous and maybe you better think hard about why this particular lawyer you’ve chosen thinks he needs to carry. Unless of course, you’re a member of the Columbia Cartel, in which case the answer may be obvious to you.

Why are these three tortured? All manifest they are under high-stress so far as we can see; or, alternatively, are self-destructive. Goodness gracious, Elvis and Joe Pike are fitness freaks! They don’t smoke . . . their consumption of alcohol is, at best, recreational; and, they probably don’t go out much with girls that do. Lucy is equally clean-living. All three of these women police officers smoke like chimneys, Starkey pops pills and slugs down vodka from an under-the-carseat flask, and while we’re not shown much of Martin, it’s evident she is isolated from the men she commands, and they resent her commanding them, from the way they refer to her to Talley when she’s not present.

Lady lawyers have been around a while; a lot longer than lady police officers were commonly seen on the street. On average, I suppose, they are about as successful as men lawyers of their age and experience and intelligence. And the profession of law has learned to expect treachery and double-dealing from them in the same proportion it expects it from men lawyers.

Lady cops are something different, still. I frankly doubt whether there is any woman commanding a big-city SWAT team, as Laura Martin is shown doing, absent some serious court or political inverventions. Dunno if the sheriffs or the LAPD have any. I doubt it with the LAPD. You have to be on SWAT first, before you’re given a SWAT command; and LAPD ain’t taken any woman cops on SWAT yet — and they ain’t about to modify the extreme physical and career requirements that are prerequisite. That’s not to say that a woman police officer isn’t as capable of popping a cap on a suspect as any other police officer — it’s simply unusual. “SWAT” doesn’t always mean “sit, wait, and talk.” Sometimes it means getting the command “clear” to shoot. Worse: sometimes it means go in the door right after the sledge hammer or battering ram just like Sam Dolan did, and that will result in killing and getting yourself killed.

Sam Dolan didn’t have to go in that door first. In fact she was ordered not to do so. Was her pride or her resentment of what she may have seen as yet one more instance of gender discrimination, of men taking credit for her work, what got her killed?

Does it really matter that the lead officer who gave her that command was a pencil-necked geek, a “politician” instead of an officer, who “shudda spent more time on the street” to learn to be a cop, instead of kissing ass to get where he was? Really?

Whatever else they are, these three Crais characters are sui generis and distinct from other female characters he’s written in these three and other stories. Why are they stressed so, and why so arguably self-destructive?

[snip some great other observations]

Allow me to ask again: are they realistic characters?

Are the situations they find themselves confronting realistic?

And let me ask the final question:

Is the profession each occupies one suited for their gender?

And, uh, what do you think Crais thinks?

[Putting on thermal underwear and asbestos overgarments].


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

I wrote:

>
>
>Laura Martin, Sam Dolan, and Carol Starkey all have something to worry
>about that Lucy Chenier needs to worry about. The demands of their
>profession. [snip]
>

I omitted the word “never” after Lucy Chenier and the word “physical” before demands, so that the sentences should read: “[they] . . . all have something to worry about that Lucy Chenier never needs to worry about. The physical demands of their profession. . . . [etc.]”


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

David Silver wrote:

>
>Allow me to ask again: are they realistic characters?
>
>Are the situations they find themselves confronting realistic?
>
>
>And let me ask the final question:
>
>Is the profession each occupies one suited for their gender?
>
>And, uh, what do you think Crais thinks?
>
>
>[Putting on thermal underwear and asbestos overgarments].
>
>
I’m beginning to think that no one in the pages of a book is or should be realistic:-)

As to women in hazardous or stressful work, well, nursing is too and, since Florence, that’s been seen as a perfect job for us ministering angels.

I think anyone who went through what Starkey did would have found it hard to cope with, male or female.

Physically a women can do the jobs Carol, Laura and Sam did quite well. Mentally and emotionally they’re tough lines of work but again, nothing that isn’t equally tough for a man. The hardest part of being a woman in a traditionally male occupation may be not the job but her colleagues. A little trite maybe but it’s going to be a while before that changes. By showing women who are coping, some better than others, I’d say Crais is endorsing their right to be in those jobs.

Jane


http://www.heinleinsociety.org

Just as a final bit of fun before the chat…Elvis gets told that he looks like X

lots of times in the books. Sometimes he asks people if they think he looks like someone else. I didn’t get chance to really trawl the books for all of them but here are some of the comparisons. If Elvis suggested it, I’ve put (E) next to the name.

John Cassavetes twenty years ago

Tony Dow (E)

Andy Summers (from the band Police)

Joe Isuzu (E)

Joe Theismann (married to Cathy Lee Crosby)

Buddy Ebsen (E)

Michael Keaton

Moe Howard (E)

Mel Gibson

I know some but not all…so is there a joke here? Do they share any similarities?

Jane


http://www.heinleinsociety.org

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:16:45 GMT, David Silverwrote:

SNIP SNIP
>Whatever else they are, these three Crais characters are sui generis and
>distinct from other female characters he’s written in these three and
>other stories. Why are they stressed so, and why so arguably
>self-destructive?
SNIP SNIP
>[snip some great other observations]

>Allow me to ask again: are they realistic characters?

REPLY:

Hmmmmm.

When reading the books I had no trouble believing in these women.

>Are the situations they find themselves confronting realistic?

REPLY:

As written, yes.

I was just so pissed that the one woman was first through the door, for whatever reason, after that fool tried to strut his silliness. And yet, given all that had happened previously in the book, she, as a male, just had to do that to compensate for being put on the outside of the investigation, for being side-tracked, to get back into where she wanted to be.

As for the bomb-squad; given the event and what had happened, the abuse of the alcohol is quite understandable. That was realistic; very realistic.

I am still thinking my way through the ending and her decision to be alcohol-free AND her response to the attentions of the now blindman who sees her so clearly. However, I am thinking that the change here is still realistic.

>And let me ask the final question:
>Is the profession each occupies one suited for their gender?

REPLY:

If the person is capable of doing the work, can handle the training and obtain the expertise, and meet the physical requirements entailed, as these females apparently can, then the answer is “yes”.

There are males who I would not trust to keep their word; those I would not trust to do the work assigned them… it is not a male/female thing; I believe it is simply a human thing. Whoever can do the work, on all of several levels (physical, training, etc), then can and should do the work.

>And, uh, what do you think Crais thinks?

REPLY:

I think he has a lot of fun with females.

—Mac
Top-posting over directions: Chat begins in about thirty minutes. Hope we see you all. Off to mix first gin and tonic … David Silver wrote:

>Robert Heinlein Reading Group chat
>
>Theme: Guest author Robert Crais
>Dates and times: Thursday, March 21, 2002, 9 PM to 11, EST
>(note the abbreviated time)
>Chat Host: Agplusone
>Place: AIM chatroom “Heinlein Readers Group chat”
>
>To attend our chats, and any reasonable person is welcome, you may
>receive instructions on how to download and use AIM freeware on the
>website located at
>
>http://www.alltel.net/~dwrighsr/heinlein.html
>
>Email me, or or Dave Wright,
>Sr, if you require further help getting the freeware
>or getting into the room.
>


David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
http://www.readinggroupsonline.com/groups/heinlein.htm
“The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!”
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA ’29
Lt (jg)., USN R’td (1907-1988)

Go To Postings

Here Begins The Discussion Log

You are now in chat room “Heinlein Readers Group chat.”

AGplusone: here

Paradis402 has entered the chat room.

AGplusone: Hi, Denis ….

AGplusone: about to mix a gin and tonic, brb

ddavitt has entered the chat room.

ddavitt: Hi Denis, David

Paradis402: Hi David. Hi Jane.

ddavitt: Thought I’d pop in early tonight.

ddavitt: In case there were any problems

ddavitt: With new people

Paradis402: Good idea. How are you and the kids and cats?

AGplusone: Hi Jane

AGplusone: still trying to get the gin and tonic mixed

ddavitt: Fine; been showing David all of you and your cats on the pic page

ddavitt: I’m on vodka and coke; using the black vodka as the coke hides the weird colour

AGplusone: Like those oxagonal glasses?

ddavitt: Hard to drink from!

AGplusone: too true

ddavitt: Can’t beat a nice heavy crystal tumbler

ddavitt: Shame most of ours have been sacrificed to the dishwasher

ddavitt: We plan to wait till all our wedding china is broken, divorce, remarry and rake in all the Denby again:-)

AGplusone: Good idea …

Paradis402: Have you people seen Steve’s Nasa web site? Fabulous!

AGplusone: we still have some of ours

ddavitt: No; is it linked to the pic page?

Paradis402: No the link was on AFH

AGplusone: not entirely but parts of it … I agree, it’s fabulous

ddavitt: I’ll look for it.

ddavitt: Been busy.

AGplusone: we’re looking for “rcrais” btw

ddavitt: I’ll add him

ddavitt: Got my books from Alexei

ddavitt: They look interesting; World Beyond The Hill is quite weighty

AGplusone: pay five cents into the kitty for mentioning the word, Jane

ddavitt: 😉

ddavitt: I’ll take AP over Cryo.

ddavitt: Disgusting little twerp.

ddavitt: On a happier note, got three more volunteers for the library project

AGplusone: Cryo is, but I actually think he’s the brighter of the two

pixelmeow has entered the chat room.

ddavitt: Hi Pix

Pixelmeow: Hello…

AGplusone: Hi, Teresa

Paradis402: Hi Teresa

Pixelmeow: I just IM’ed you, David, then saw your note on the newsgroup…

Pixelmeow: so nevermind the IM.

Pixelmeow: 🙂

AGplusone: Did you reply to that offer to buy books in memoria

Pixelmeow: I don’t know of that offer…….

ddavitt: I didn’t see it…I’m missing so many posts nowadays. Just see them when others reply to them

ddavitt: Oh you mean an email?

AGplusone: EMail …

ddavitt: Jog my memory

ddavitt: Don’t recall it

Pixelmeow: Oh, I haven’t looked at my aol email yet this evening.

AGplusone: I’ll copy you.

ddavitt: Sorry; me or Teresa?

AGplusone: Jane

AGplusone: Dunno if Dave Wright sent out a reminder. Haven’t seen much of him.

ddavitt: Ok, thanks. Sorry Pix; two conversations going on:-)

ddavitt: Didn’t get one

Pixelmeow: I will be sort of looking over your shoulders this evening…

ddavitt: Why is that? Come sit by the fire!

AGplusone: You gotta ask about the blue eyes, Teresa

Pixelmeow: I haven’t had time to read the books. 🙁

AGplusone: Dat’s okay.

Pixelmeow: but I’ve missed so many chats, for one reason or another,

Pixelmeow: and I really hate missing them…

AGplusone: The discussion will probably be interesting even if you haven’t

ddavitt: You can still ask general questions about being a writer, or why he likes Heinlein

Pixelmeow: Yep!

Pixelmeow: I’m counting on interesting discussion.

AGplusone: Or how in particular Heinlein influenced him growing up.

ddavitt: I bluffed thru a whole chat with L Neil Smith

Pixelmeow: The ng’s been a little quiet lately…

Pixelmeow: Really, Jane?

Pixelmeow: Not bad.

ddavitt: Quiet?It’s been a battleground!

Pixelmeow: I mean the last day or so…

ddavitt: Couldn’t find any of his books

Pixelmeow: very few posts, relatively speaking.

ddavitt: You could nip over to Crais’s web site maybe

ddavitt: To get the gist

Pixelmeow: I did visit it and look at the pictures.

ddavitt: There you go then.

Pixelmeow: 🙂

Pixelmeow: One thing, that I just read on the ng

Pixelmeow: was about references to other writers

ddavitt: I have a pile of 6 of the books by me. Hope they don’t fall over

Pixelmeow: like Michael Cassutt…

Pixelmeow: who comes into the ng every once and a while

ddavitt: Yes.

ddavitt: I know his name

Pixelmeow: and I remember way back when, asking him if he was the same one by that name

ddavitt: Crais seems to put real people in the books a lot

Pixelmeow: referenced in the front of one of my Star Trek books

Pixelmeow: he said that it was he.

ddavitt: Probably is…what did he say?

Pixelmeow: 🙂

Pixelmeow: and I forget which book it was…

ddavitt: I just found out how many of the people on the sff Buffy group are real authors

Pixelmeow: but I thought that was very cool!

ddavitt: Some of them do ST books

Pixelmeow: who?

ddavitt: Debra Doyle?

Pixelmeow: I think…

ddavitt: Dafyyd ab Hugh

Pixelmeow: maybe she’s one of the newer authors.

Pixelmeow: Yes, I know that one

AGplusone: How is Dafyyd doing … invite him here, Jane?

ddavitt: Maybe she’s not the ST one..but I’ve seen her books in Chapters

ddavitt: Fine I guess.

Pixelmeow: ST is another line that I don’t have enough time to read much of…

ddavitt: I don’t know if he’s into AIM chats

Pixelmeow: except for the ones I already have

Pixelmeow: and have read over and over and over…

RCrais has entered the chat room.

Pixelmeow: Hello!

ddavitt: I see him on sff buffy a lot. But I’ve quit rasfw; too big

ddavitt: Hell and welcome

Pixelmeow: Jane!

ddavitt: Hello..first typo

ddavitt: Shucks.

RCrais: hey

Pixelmeow: 🙂

Paradis402: Hi Robert!

RCrais: where’s the bar?

Pixelmeow: Over here.

Pixelmeow: What’ll ya have?

AGplusone: Hi, Robert … a few people are early. ddavitt = Jane, Denis Paradis, pixelmeow is Teresa

RCrais: hendrick’s gin and tonic, squeeze of lime…please

Pixelmeow: Coming right up!

Pixelmeow:

RCrais: pixelmeow…cool name

Pixelmeow: 🙂

Pixelmeow: Guess where I got it.

AGplusone: You have Hendricks back in D.C. Pix?

RCrais: duh

Pixelmeow: 🙂

Pixelmeow: Um, since I’m in Jani’

ddavitt: Not tried that gin; Bombay sapphire is good..but it should be blue

Pixelmeow: s bar, everything is here.

RCrais: i thought it was blue for years until i drank it during daylight

AGplusone: Daylight will do that to all illusion

ddavitt: I was deeply disappointed when I poured it..but the taste made up for it

Pixelmeow: I can’t drink Gin.

Pixelmeow: Blackout Bitch, that’s what I turn into.

Pixelmeow:

ddavitt: This black vodka i’m drinking is odd; turns everything a yucky green

RCrais: sapphire was my fave for years until i discovered hendrick’s…which is an odd little gin

Pixelmeow: I like Ten High whiskey…

Pixelmeow: cheap, sweet, not too much of a headache…

ddavitt: I’ll look out for it. Gin and vodka are the only spirits I like so it’s good to have new ones

RCrais: something tells me you’re a great date..LOL

AGplusone: They both probably are … you know we have a faces to voices page, Robert?

Pixelmeow: Denis, I have seen exactly two remarks from you.

RCrais: you gotta love any conversation that starts off with booze

Pixelmeow: Speak up!

RCrais: i wouldn’t know how to do that, david

Paradis402: I am meditating. Sorry.:-D

AGplusone: Lemme see if I can dig out an URL

Pixelmeow: I noticed.

Pixelmeow: 🙂

Pixelmeow: 🙂

Paradis402: :'(

Pixelmeow: damn, hate it when the window stops scrolling…

Pixelmeow: didn’t mean to do two smileys…

Pixelmeow: >:o

Paradis402: We forgive.

Pixelmeow: >:o

Pixelmeow: see, it did it again!

AGplusone: http://afhpics.mnsdesigns.com/

RCrais: it’s good to be with so many hardcore heinlein fans…

Pixelmeow: that’s us!

AGplusone: opps it hickuped.

DavidWrightSr has entered the chat room.

AGplusone: just use one of them

ddavitt: Hardcore…better than somethings we’ve been called

Pixelmeow: Hey!

RCrais: what do i do with it once i go there..?

ddavitt: Hi Dave

AGplusone: Hi, Dave …. met Robert, Dave Wright

Pixelmeow: Just look around.

RCrais: well, the evening’s young…

RCrais: hi dave

ddavitt: You can see us…which might scare you..but there are soothing pics of cats and babies too

AGplusone: guard your eyes from our awesome beauty

DavidWrightSr: Hi. Lost track of time. Hi Robert Glad to have on-board.

Paradis402: It’s good to have you with us. Did you ever meet our Robert?

Pixelmeow: I need to get in a pic of Tigger.

AGplusone: Speaking of cats . . . you really have a black tom that someone took a shot at . . . ?

RCrais: hmm…i tried going but my browser burped…got an error page

Pixelmeow: someone shot at your cat?????

RCrais: thanks, dave

ddavitt: The one Elvis has?

Pixelmeow: http://afhpics.mnsdesigns.com/

AGplusone: The cat that adopts Elvis has been shot

ddavitt: He’s real?

AGplusone: I dunno, I was asking ….

RCrais: ‘our Robert’ meaning Mr. Heinlein?

Paradis402 has left the room.

ddavitt: That happens Robert; you get booted

ddavitt: But I think that’s who Denis meant

DavidWrightSr: Or hit the ESC key. Don’t do that 🙂

RCrais: fortunately, elvis’s cat isn’t of this world…all of us would be in stitches…

SageMerlin has entered the room.

ddavitt: I’ve known ones like that though. I have scars.

ddavitt: Hi Alan.

Pixelmeow: Hi!

SageMerlin: greetings

Pixelmeow: Ooooh, that’s a pretty color…

SageMerlin: excuse me???

ddavitt: How is Ginny btw? Any better?

ddavitt: Your name Alan

Pixelmeow: your screen name is the prettiest green…

SageMerlin: I am not seeing colors tonight for some reason

ddavitt: I’m on traditional; I’m red, you’re all blue.

Pixelmeow: green/blue, in the lightest shade…

Pixelmeow: Hey, I’m red!

RCrais: i once had the chance to meet RAH at a space conference here in LA years ago…but I was, ah, too shy

Pixelmeow: Jane, you’re pink!

ddavitt: Figures.

Pixelmeow: I’d be so shy I couldn’t spit…

ddavitt: Yes..

Pixelmeow: and I’d rather be pink than red.

KathieAlberthal has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hi there.

Pixelmeow: Hi!

KathieAlberthal: Hi!

Pixelmeow: so did RAH speak at the conference?

ddavitt: Is this your first visit here Kathie?

RCrais: yes, he did…

Pixelmeow: Wow.

KathieAlberthal: No I am agplusone’s sister jane

Pixelmeow: Oh@

ddavitt: Oh, sure, we met last time.

ddavitt: Weren’t you using a different name?

KathieAlberthal: I will have my own soon!

SageMerlin: I case of mistaken identity

RCrais: it was fascinating to listen to him…

Pixelmeow: what did he speak of?

ddavitt: I have some of his speeches on tape and CD

RCrais: he was on a panel with niven, pournelle, and several others

Pixelmeow: wow…

jilyd has entered the room.

Pixelmeow: Hi!

ddavitt: Very strange to hear someone you’ve only read.

ddavitt: Hello there.

AGplusone: Hi, Dee …..

AGplusone: I think we’re close enough to filling up to begin ….

AGplusone: everyone has a drink?

RCrais: it was VERY strange…he didn’t sound like the voice i had in my head…

ddavitt: I IM’s Bill but go no reply

RCrais: that came out wrong

Pixelmeow: how did he sound?

SageMerlin: Ah, want to fill in those seats on the left

KathieAlberthal: I have Grand Marnier

RCrais: he souned…normal…like a normal man…

RCrais: sounded

Pixelmeow: I have Mountain Dew, Code Red…

AGplusone: Then I’ll welcome Robert Crais on behalf of us all, and ask Robert if he’d like to introduce himself in any way ….

Pixelmeow: No accent?

Pixelmeow: Tall corn?

ddavitt: Yes, I had that..I’m English and I always heard him as English somehow

RCrais: i guess i’d always heard him as, i dunno, Odin

Pixelmeow: ROFL!

Pixelmeow: Yes, that too…

RCrais: i wouldn’t say an accent, no…

Pixelmeow: but I sort of imagine him sounding like Lazarus in a way.

ddavitt: Heh. Voice of the gods..

Pixelmeow: with the tall corn.

ddavitt: true, Pix.

Pixelmeow: Wish I had some wine…

Pixelmeow: you know me and merlot…

RCrais: ha…david suggested i have a drink at hand when i signed on…

ddavitt: Ginny said lazarus got away from Heinlein when he wrote about him…brave character!

SageMerlin: I think I dated a girl named Merlot once

AGplusone: and whether we want to go to a protocol … or just free shooting?

Pixelmeow: okay, David…

RCrais: however you want, david

KathieAlberthal: I need to know protocol.

SageMerlin: Actully, ginny told me that Robert really started to hate Lazarus after awhile

Pixelmeow: (going to look for some merlot, not a girl)

ddavitt: So did some of us…well, me anyway.

RCrais: really? i wonder why…because so many readers associated the two?

AGplusone: Why don’t we try a bit of protocol, use “?” if you want to put a query to Robert, and I’ll call you in order, then we’ll degenerate as we usually do ….

DavidWrightSr: David AG are we going to use protocol as we did with other guests?

SageMerlin: Because he kept butting into stories where he wasn’t supposed to be

ddavitt: He was such a know it all.

Pixelmeow: oops, got laundry to check on, be right back

ddavitt: OK AG

RCrais: LOL

ddavitt: Do yoor people do that Robert?

ddavitt: Your

AGplusone: Use “?” if you have a question; “!” if you wish to make a statement …. and use “/ga” when your finished question or

AGplusone: answering.

AGplusone: First ?

SageMerlin: ? Is that all right with you Robert?

AGplusone: Looking …. looking …. looking

AGplusone: Go ahead, Sage

RCrais: sure…i won’t remember, but sure

SageMerlin: !

SageMerlin: Hmmm

KathieAlberthal: I have been reluctant to go on any other chats, mainly because of the crazies as engendered in the Claudius.

DavidWrightSr: ?

RCrais: ha

AGplusone: Okay, Dave Wright /ga

ddavitt: We’re not like them at all, honest:-)

DavidWrightSr: Robert. Unfortunately, I have only had time to read ‘Fail Safe’ and have started on ‘LA Requiem’.

ddavitt: Fee Fall?

ddavitt: Free Fall?

DavidWrightSr: I didn’t spot any Heinlein references. Probably just wasn’t looking Can you tell me where. Yes Free Fall, sorry

DavidWrightSr: wasn’t looking carefully enough 😉

ddavitt: ?

DavidWrightSr: /ga

RCrais: well, dave, i COULD point out the references, but i never tell…

SageMerlin: !

DavidWrightSr: Ah so. Well I’ll spot it next time 🙂

RCrais: reason being, i like the mail i get from people asking about possibles…

AGplusone: (Jane Davitt’s next, in queue, then Sage …. )

RCrais: it’s kind of a game i play

AGplusone: ?

AGplusone: (Jane D, Sage, then me)

ddavitt: How difficult is it to write from the POV of the villain as you began to do in LA Requiem? Or is it fun in a twisted way?

jilyd: !

ddavitt: (I wrote you about James Marsters once to see if you were a Buffy fan)

RCrais: it was fun…after seven books from elvis cole’s POV, it was radically different to write from the bad guy’s POV

AGplusone: (Sage, me, then Dee, aka Jilyd)

RCrais: it was ‘free-ing’ in a way…

RCrais: fun to put myself into that kind of head

ddavitt: Being bad without the penalties or guilt?

RCrais: not so much that…just…open

RCrais: but it IS fun to be bad

Paradis402 has entered the room.

ddavitt: Sometimes!:-) Thanks g/a

KathieAlberthal: I’m doing my tax return right now, oh god. Have to leave to feed more paper.

AGplusone: Go Alan=Sage, wb Denis

SageMerlin: I know that you reference at least two people reading Heinlein books, and that one of them is Stranger, was it Have Space Suit?

AGplusone: (queue is me, then Dee, then …. )

RCrais: you mean, was the other book i referenced HSWT? yeah, i think it was…

SageMerlin: Roger that.

mkeith54 has entered the room.

ddavitt: !wasn’t that Lucy’s son?

AGplusone: Hi, Mike, welcome … we’re using a protocol chat for a bit.

jump101st has entered the room.

RCrais: some of this stuff fades with the dying brain cells…

Paradis402: Got bumped something awful. Sorry.

ddavitt: Hi Mike, Steve

Pixelmeow: Hey, steve!

AGplusone: Hi, Steve, protocol chat for a bit. Jane will IM you

SageMerlin: And….do you actually have a cat?

jump101st: Hi Jane. Hi Teresa Hey David

ddavitt: Sure

RCrais: i have three cats

djindalian has entered the room.

Pixelmeow: hi!

RCrais: three head o’ cat

mkeith54: OK, sorry for being late, my son is just back from the UAE

SageMerlin: Thought so

AGplusone: Okay, queue is me, then Dee …. Hi, Dave Jennings

RCrais: none are as mean as elvis’s cat…though i used to have an old tom who was close…

djindalian: howdy

LadyS122 has entered the room.

AGplusone: And lady ….

SageMerlin: We had a calico who walked on his knuckles

LadyS122: Hello… don’t know that I will be able to contribute much.. Mr. Crais’ books kept getting checked out of the library and I forgot to put them on hold.

SageMerlin: and terrorized every dog in the neighborhood

RCrais: that would’ve been a sight…

AGplusone: Okay, my question: where we right about your using Starship Troopers, conflating Zim and Breckenridge and Zim and Frankel for the incident with Pike, Horse and Aimes?

AGplusone: were we right /ga

RCrais: you were correct

AGplusone: 🙂 huge smile …

RCrais: good job

SageMerlin: ?

ddavitt: yippee score one for team afh:-)

AGplusone: Dee’s question is up!

jilyd: Finally got set up. Sorry I didn’t get to read our guest’s books befor th chat, but I will remedy that ASAP, based on discussions in afh. Thanks to AG and pixel for the help getting on. Thanks to Robert for appearing here tonight

AGplusone: (queue is Dee, then Sage)

jilyd: /ga

RCrais: your welcome

RCrais: you’re

ddavitt: ?

AGplusone: {use “?” if you have a question, “!” for a statement and I’ll call in order.

AGplusone: Sage is up.

AGplusone: Then Jane

SageMerlin: also remember that you actually do have a Sgt Zim somewhere else, don’t you, or did I dream that one?

RCrais: no dream…elvis had a sergeant named zim

SageMerlin: No, I am sure I saw a Sgt Zim. I have read seven of these

SageMerlin: in two weeks

SageMerlin: and i get confused which is where

KathieAlberthal: You guys are way ahead of me, however I would like to say I really like the sense of humor, albiet subtle, especially in the Hostage where not only are there dum guys but they chose the capo di capo’s accountant. Made me LOL8-)

RCrais: wow…

RCrais: sage, so do i!

SageMerlin: lol

AGplusone: Okay …. Jane Davitt is up.

Pixelmeow: ?

ddavitt: Trying to score again…did you use Kip and co in Demolition Angel because the Mother Thing built a bomb in have Space Suit?

AGplusone: (Pixel is next in queue, then ….. )

RCrais: well…not ‘because’ of mother thing…i wanted to kip and peewee…but it worked out nicely that the mother thing had the bomb angle in HSWT

RCrais: wanted to USE

BPRAL22169 has entered the room.

ddavitt: Hi Bill.

Pixelmeow: Hi bill!

RCrais: gawd, i need a copy editor!

AGplusone: Hi, Bill … protocol going

jump101st: Greetings Mr. Bill.

ddavitt: That was quite shocking at first..but it makes sense now

BPRAL22169: Hello, all. Ok. Who’s keeping the list?

AGplusone: “?” “!”and /ga

AGplusone: I’m

BPRAL22169: OK

RCrais: yeah, it blew me away

AGplusone: Pixel is up ….

ddavitt: g/a

RCrais: so to speak

AGplusone: then queue’s empty

ddavitt: That’s an awful joke Robert

ddavitt: 🙂

Pixelmeow: okay, I haven’t had a chance to read your books yet, but David has me really excited about that.

RCrais: yes, it is….

RCrais: my weakness is cheap humor

AGplusone: It’s tough to be the King!

Pixelmeow: So question, what’s your biggest RAH character influence?

AGplusone: (twice)

Pixelmeow: Not favorite, biggest,

Pixelmeow: most influencial.

SageMerlin: ?

Pixelmeow: sorry.

Pixelmeow: g/a

Pixelmeow: newbie!

AGplusone: (queue after Robert’s done answering is Sage …. )

ddavitt: ? unless I’m hogging the questions..

RCrais: the ‘uber-father’….the older character who helped the younger character mature…be it zim or hazel or jubal…

RCrais: sam

AGplusone: (Sage, Jane, then me …. after Robert’s finished anwering … )

RCrais: those were the characters…and i think they’re of a unity…that most profoundly affected me

SageMerlin: sam as in starman jones?

RCrais: yeah, sage…sorry…

ddavitt: ! we don’t see Elvis’s mentor but we see Pike’s?

AGplusone: Aimes?

RCrais: we haven’t seen elvis’s mentor yet…

BPRAL22169: He seems to have felt that way about Hap Gay.

ddavitt: His background, family is in shadow

RCrais: we’ll see scenes from elvis’s formative years in my next book…THE LAST DETECTIVE

ddavitt: Looking forward to that.

AGplusone: Yeaaah!

AGplusone: due out in August?

KathieAlberthal: Me too, more, more!!!!

RCrais: yes…first week of august

AGplusone: Okay, Sage is up.

RCrais:thanks

Pixelmeow has left the room.

SageMerlin: Speaking of being blown away, with Demolition Angel going into production, do you have any concerns about comparisions and contrasts with Blown Away and Speed?

SageMerlin: and by the way I live in Boston, so I am sensitive to this one

BPRAL22169: ?

SageMerlin: Part of Blown away was filmed in my backyard,,.literally

RCrais: mmm…not really…so long as the movie is true to carol starkey…to what she’s experienced and what she’d going through

AGplusone: (queue is Jane, me, Bill … after Sage and Robert are finished)

AGplusone: (Jane Davitt, me …. )

SageMerlin: I appreciated your comment that you deliberately do not give enough detail

SageMerlin: to prevent someone from understanding how bomb techs approach disarming devices.

RCrais: my fear is that they’ll make a stalker film…nothing but cop versus maniac…and i think the book is more than that…

RCrais: i hope it is

RCrais: that was important to me…and to the police who helped me…

AGplusone: [It’s a beautiful love story and character development story for Carol … ]

SageMerlin: Yeah. I worked on the city desk at the NYPost in the sixties and first thing we learned was that there were some things you did not write about

BPRAL22169: [Carol = Friday]

SageMerlin: /ga

AGplusone: Okay . . . Jane Davitt

mkeith54: !

ddavitt: Janet Evanovich’s Ranger and Morelli characters are a little like Pike but not as cut off from people; I know you’ve met; do you read her books? Is there a similarity or is it my fevered imagination?

RCrais: you don’t want to be instructional…

ddavitt: g/a

RCrais: janet and i have been friends for years…

ddavitt: i love her books…still looking for more of her pre Steph ones

AGplusone: (queue, me, Bill, Mike Keith … after Robert and Jane)

RCrais: i love her books, and i love janet…

ddavitt: They are so collectable though

ddavitt: I picked up one in a library sale and was doing the dance you do at such times

ddavitt: Ranger is a Pike who didn’t suffer as much

RCrais: i think that many of us these days have the dark ‘buddy’ character…walter mosley’s monk…lehane’s bubba…

SageMerlin: Hawk

OscagneTX has entered the room.

RCrais: hawk! absolutely

SageMerlin: real dark

ddavitt: But Elvis is dark too under the jokes

RCrais: NOW who’s making lame jokes!!

KathieAlberthal: Hence the shades.

AGplusone: Hi, Oscagne … protocol chat. Use “?” for a question, and I’ll call on you in queue.

SageMerlin: guilty as charged

BPRAL22169: Probably something archetypal going on.

RCrais: LOL

RCrais: i think so…

RCrais: it’s tidal

SageMerlin: ??

BPRAL22169: Comes in, goes out?

BPRAL22169: or did you mean “twice a day”?

AGplusone: /ga?

ddavitt: Sorry, yes

AGplusone: We had a question late on the message board. About whether the reason the last three women characters ….

RCrais: tidal as in sweeping the social fabric…we seem to go through group needs…almost as if it’s cyclic

BPRAL22169: Yeah. These images are always there — but from time to time certain combinations become popular.

AGplusone: Carol, Sam Dolan, and Laura are suited for the job they find themselves doing. Is the fact they are under such stress a lack of suitability, or just circumstantial?

RCrais: and they seem to become popular all at once

AGplusone: Should women be in the macho type of joke as they three are?

ddavitt: Like the way you get 2 films about asteroids or ants in one year

DenvToday has entered the room.

Pixelmeow has entered the room.

BPRAL22169: Yeah — the traditional sidekick starts wearing Jedi knight robes allasudden.

ddavitt: You mean job AG?

Pixelmeow: Man!

AGplusone: Yes.

Pixelmeow: sorry everyone

Pixelmeow: power just went out

Pixelmeow: had to find some light

ddavitt: 🙁

Pixelmeow: and get reconnected

DenvToday: Greetings all

AGplusone: Hi, Denv … protocol chat. Use “?” for question and I’ll call on you in order.

ddavitt: Hi Denv

BPRAL22169: How very goethean of you.

RCrais: with carol and dolan…i think they reflect an interest..a fascination…of mine…martin is more a villian and not of the same character

Pixelmeow: didn’t even get to see my answer. 🙁

DenvToday: Good to see you.

AGplusone: Queue is I’m up, and next is Bill, then Mike Keith ….

ddavitt: I’ll copy it to you Pix

Pixelmeow: Thanks, Jane!

SageMerlin: ?? duh

AGplusone: But she does have some same characteristics ….under a lot of stress.

AGplusone: even tho she’s the villainess

RCrais: dolan..and then carol starkey…have different cores…dolan is strong…but starkey is weak and trying to become strong…and both are self-destructive

AGplusone: Why? Survivor guilt for Starkey?

RCrais: true…but we don’t know why she’s doing what she did…or how long she’s been a baddie….

AGplusone: Right ….

AGplusone: we don’t know what the mafia has on her

RCrais: partly suvivor guilt…and partly fear…the very underpinnings of her character were destroyed…her confidence…her self-esteem…

RCrais: she now has to recover from that

RCrais: no…or how long they’ve owned her…

AGplusone: Are there any actual SWAT supervisors you know of on LASD?

AGplusone: or any big city force?

RCrais: like ‘mr. jones’…talley recognizes mr. jones as a cop or former cop and asks what the mob has on him to make him do these things, but mr. jones doesn’t answer…

AGplusone: exactly the same thing

RCrais: not on the sheriffs department…retired lapd

SageMerlin: ?? which book is this??

RCrais: yep

ddavitt: Hostage

AGplusone: Hostage

AGplusone: Yes, Jones is exactly the same boat.

AGplusone: /ga … Bill, you’re up.

BPRAL22169: Ok

AGplusone: queue then is Mike Keith and then ….

SageMerlin: ???

AGplusone: and then Sage < g >

BPRAL22169: Demolition Angel really surprised me — your stuff has tended to be very plot-driven. Not surprising; that’s the way the genre works.

SageMerlin: thanks

AGplusone: [Duke just got knocked off by Indiana]

SageMerlin: rah rah

BPRAL22169: Demolition Angel, though, was really “lit’ry” with contrary motion and dynamic oppositions and the thematic “nothing is what it seemsa t first to be.”

Pixelmeow: [like I care]

BPRAL22169: And then Hostage went back to plot – driven.

BPRAL22169: My question is — is there any particular reason for this beyond “I just felt like doing it that way this time”?

AGplusone: ?

AGplusone: {queue is Mike, then Sage, then me]

RCrais: LOL…there probably SHOULD be a reason beyond that…but, no, i felt like telling a story in a different way…i like to experiment…to write differently…that’s why i’ll alternate elvis books with stand-alones from now on….

RCrais: i took a large jump with L. A. REQUIEM, and wanted to continue pushing…

BPRAL22169: If a vote of approval counts for anything, I particularly liked Demolition Angel.

BPRAL22169: But I bought two copies, and I’m sure that counts for more.

ddavitt: I liked it better than Hostage to be honest.

AGplusone: [like the last three large jumps]

RCrais: then, with HOSTAGE, i wanted to write a hyperfast hard-charger…so i went almost exclusively with plot

RCrais: fair enough

AGplusone: Okay, Mike Keith, you’re up

BPRAL22169: I thought you had taken Stephen King’s formula to make that one.

RCrais: which is what?

SageMerlin: Can you buy that in stores?

mkeith54: Wow, I just connected Demolation Angel and Robert. Read it a while back and was very impressed. Thanks. Reading Monkey’s Raincoat and Free Fall right now /ga

RCrais: thanks

ddavitt: ?

AGplusone: Hostage is in hardbound

BPRAL22169: Imagine the worst that could happen — and then blow it up and have the whole world involved.

AGplusone: I’ll pass …. Sage, you’re up.

SageMerlin: ((i meant stephen king’s formula and is there an antidote?))

RCrais: well, it’s kinda the heinlein formula, too…get your people in trouble, then watch them get out…that’s what happens with talley…

SageMerlin: I really have to ask this one: did you or did you not write the blurb on the back jacket of Free Fall? I just can’t imagine anyone else but the author penning a line like

AGplusone: Queue is empty after Sage ….

SageMerlin: Elvis Cole is just a detective who can’t say no, especially to a girl in a terrible fix, which is so obviously a take of from a line in song from Oklahomo

ddavitt: No, I’m there

AGplusone: oh, okay

SageMerlin: Oklahoma that is

ddavitt: But if anyone else wants to go next, that’s fine; I’ve asked lots

RCrais: i can’t take credit for that…it was bantam…

SageMerlin: I need a copy editor too

AGplusone: okay, Jane

AGplusone: [Davitt}

SageMerlin: gee /ga

KathieAlberthal: I’m just reading

ddavitt: I’m a hardcore Buffy fan too and I’ve noticed a big overlap

RCrais: in those days i didn’t have the clout to rewrite my jacket copy

BPRAL22169: How many janes do we have today?

ddavitt: with Heinlein and Buffy fans

RCrais: i love buffy

ddavitt: Why do you think that’s so? g/a

SageMerlin: what’s buffy?

BPRAL22169: Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV show

ddavitt: Unbeliever!!

ddavitt: Stake him!

SageMerlin: I don’t have a television

BPRAL22169: Sara Michelle Geller

ddavitt: Oh, OK then

RCrais: we like to look at beautiful women?

ddavitt: Well, I watch it for Spike mostly

ddavitt: Same diff

RCrais: or men?

AGplusone: Ever hear Connie Willis talk about how she negotiated a clause that gives her approval over covers, since the blurb that killed her plot surprise? She told it to Cassutt and me at Dangerous Visions this summer?

AGplusone: [empty queue …. open chat, free]

ddavitt: Spike may get redeemed but your villains just die…is that life?

RCrais: i haven’t heard ms. willis on that…but you have to protect yourself…they’ll give away the plot on the flap copy every time

Pixelmeow: I’ve noticed that in cover art, also.

OscagneTX: When the cover is actually pertinent to the story in the first place, anyway.

Pixelmeow: Well, yeah…

SageMerlin: Okay, getting down to the nitty gritty -speaking as someone who just read all of the Spenser novels from first to latest just to count up the number of bodies that Spenser and Hawk leave lying around (168, give or take),

Pixelmeow: one of the

Pixelmeow: sorry

RCrais: depends on the bad guy…most bad guys that i write are not redeemed because i’m too busy redeeming other characters…

Pixelmeow: didn’t mean that

SageMerlin: the parallels between these Boys from Boston and your characters are too obvious to ignore….The question is, have you ever met, spoken or corresponded with Parker and, if so, how does he feel about it?

RCrais: i’ve never met mr. parker…and, yes, i was certainly influenced by him…

RCrais: i think mr. parker will ultimately be ranked with hammett, chandler, and mcdonald for his contributions to the field

RCrais: and the literature of the private detective

SageMerlin: Certainly will, if volume counts

RCrais: not just for volume…

Pixelmeow: ?

AGplusone: [good guy, bad guy partner stories aren’t too uncommon, and

Parker’s last is good] On scripting, ever think about scripting a Heinlein, Robert? Which one would you think the best to try?

RCrais: almost every–not all, but most–of the newer generations of detective writers shows his influence…

AGplusone: Pixel’s next.

RCrais: me, mosley, lehane…harlan coben…even janet…

ddavitt: Her books are quite gritty at times

ddavitt: Amongst the laughs

ddavitt: And the sex

SageMerlin: Because I live here, I am always walking around the areas he writes about

Pixelmeow: like me being from Richmond, VA

RCrais: adapting one of heinlein’s novels would be a dream come true for me…i’d love to tackle one of the larger works, like STRANGER…but any of the juveniles…red planet…

SageMerlin: The other night I was in a restaurant reading a scene that he puts in that restaurant

ddavitt: And AG, you live near Elvis?

AGplusone: yes

SageMerlin: I have dibs on citizen

KathieAlberthal: Right up Laurel Canyon.

ddavitt: Have Space Suit would be wonderful…they could do the aliens so well nowadays

RCrais: lookout mountain?

AGplusone: Red Planet is a great boy’s story

BPRAL22169: Driven by 8777 recently?

RCrais: hey, i’m only fourteen…perfect for me

AGplusone: What I said. I still love it.

RCrais: not in a while…but i found it as soon as i moved out here…

BPRAL22169: I think Have Space Suit would make a good one.

ddavitt: My first Heinlein..still my favourite

SageMerlin: Actually, I want to make Starship Troopers…again….and get it right this time

AGplusone: How would you try to do Tunnel? As an anti-Lord of Flies?

RCrais: have any of you seen the pictures of heinlein’s bomb shelter on my website?

Pixelmeow: Yes!

BPRAL22169: In some ways the best of the juveniles — though Citizen is still my favorite.

AGplusone: All of us!

ddavitt: Sure; i remember you posting the link on afh a few years back

ddavitt: Thanks; great to see them

Pixelmeow: ?

RCrais: cool…that was quite a wild ride…the owner at that time–who was remodeling the house to resell it–gave me quite a tour…

AGplusone: Pixel’s up.

SageMerlin: ??

ddavitt: I have the Popular Mechanis 1950’s article on the Colorado House; very interesting

AGplusone: {and after Pixel we’ll take a five minute break …. }

KathieAlberthal: ?

RCrais: i have that, too…i was fascinated by that

ddavitt: to see what heinlein included that still isn’t standard

BPRAL22169: I heard recently that the house had been torn down. When did you see it?

AGplusone: And Jane my sister gets to lead off the next hour

Pixelmeow: I’ve noticed some of RAH’s writing style in another author’s style

KathieAlberthal: Where is the house in Colorado, I live in Colorado Springs?

Pixelmeow: and I was wondering if you consciously use RAH’s style to some extent.

Pixelmeow: Even unconsciously…

ddavitt: Not sure of address

ddavitt: But someone here will know…

BPRAL22169: 1776 Mesa Avenue – in the Broadmore District.

BPRAL22169: But DONT tell anyone I told you!

RCrais: i saw it about five or six years ago, i think it was…the original heinlein house had been torn down except for a few walls and the slab…the structure was almost entirely rebuilt into a huge two-story model…

ddavitt: There you go.

KathieAlberthal: I’ll go see.

ddavitt: Shame:-(

AGplusone: You should take a tour, Jane, with Sarah Hoyt.

BPRAL22169: That’s about what I thought — the slab would be awfully hard to replace.

ddavitt: In the UK we save houses famous people lived in and put plaques up!

AGplusone: Okay, five minute break …. free chat, time to water cats, etc., back at 7 past the hour

ddavitt: We don’t rip em down.

Pixelmeow: I still want my answer!

AGplusone: [making another gin and tonic … ]

RCrais: heinlein’s style…not consciously..but i’ve read his books so many times that i would have to be influenced…

Pixelmeow: 🙂

ddavitt: Unless there’s a motorway planned…

LadyS122: I have enjoyed lurking. 🙂 But I probably won’t be back.. bedtime for the future Heinlein fans. 🙂

jump101st: [Not many 800 year old houses in the States, Jane. 🙂 ]

ddavitt: Mine are tucked up and quiet

LadyS122: it is only 9pm here…

AGplusone: Oh, Lady, say hi, to Tony and your daughter.

RCrais: back in five…gin break

DavidWrightSr: Standard Notice: To All newcomers, Welcome. If you wish your name to be added to the mailing list for notices and notifications of logs,please e-mail me at

LadyS122: His daughter. 🙂 And I will tomorrow.. he is sleeping. Got two teeth extracted today.

ddavitt: Dickens was a tad more recent than that and his house was a few streets from mine in Portsmouth

KathieAlberthal: Back in 2 empty ashtray!

Pixelmeow: well, the lights are still out…

Pixelmeow: sirens all over…

LadyS122: I am not quite old enough to be her mother…

ddavitt: You could tour it..and jane Austen’s was half an hour away

Pixelmeow: it’s very windy here.

OscagneTX: Where are you, Pix?

Pixelmeow: how’s it down by you, Steve?

Pixelmeow: DC area.

DavidWrightSr: You’re in NC? Teresa?

ddavitt: We have suddenly got snow and minus 16 windchill

Pixelmeow: Wow!

ddavitt: here in Ontario

BPRAL22169: You know, Jane, we do the same here. You could go see Thoreau’s cabin on Walden Pond, if you want.

jump101st: Calm as can be Ms T.

Pixelmeow: Lucky, Steve.

ddavitt: All my bulbs were coming up..hope they make it

Pixelmeow: We’ve got daffodils everywhere.

jump101st: I live in the Banana Belt I guess.

ddavitt: I’d love to..and see Loisa M Alcott’s house

SageMerlin: Is that what that shack is

Pixelmeow: I love Daffodils.

KathieAlberthal: If we’re talking weather, dry, dry, and more dry in my area, Colorado.

BPRAL22169: Yeah — i nthe neighborhood for you, Sage.

Pixelmeow: and cold?

jump101st: Those have been in bloom for about 1.5 weeks here.

Pixelmeow: Kathie?

BPRAL22169: And isn’t Emily Dickinson around there, too?

ddavitt: Daffs are all out in the UK

LadyS122: I an in NW Florida, so it has been great this past week..

Pixelmeow: Yeah, here too, Steve.

KathieAlberthal: Kathie is AGone’s sis, jane, on a friends computer.

BPRAL22169: Daffs and jonquils are out here, too, in northern California.

ddavitt: Home of trancendentalists

ddavitt: I read Diamond In The Window

jump101st: What do you call Northern CA BP?

Pixelmeow: This weekend is the Cherry Blossom Festival in DC…

Pixelmeow: hope they make it thru tomorrow.

BPRAL22169: Santa Rosa is where I am. Anything north of San Luis Obispo is northern California.

ddavitt: I love blossom tress; had a whole street of them where I lived as a child

Pixelmeow: Me too, Jane.

Pixelmeow: But, I love flowers anyway…

Paradis402: Jane, can we ask Robert if he visited the RAH residence on Bonny Doon?

DavidWrightSr: My son is heading towards Felton as we speak north of Monterey Bay

jump101st: LOL OK. I call Redding or Susanville Northern Cal.

BPRAL22169: I just got a frisson thinking about the Jefferson memorial with the cherry trees in bloom.

AGplusone: Anything north of the San Fernando Valley is northern California, and if they vote for partition, them too

ddavitt: And my parents garden borders a bluebell wood…

Pixelmeow: Well, Bill, come on down, it’s right now…

ddavitt: I can send you a pic of that Pix if you like

Pixelmeow: Yes, please!

KathieAlberthal: Anything north of Hollywood is Northern California from when I lived there.

BPRAL22169: Chance I may be in Philly in July, but couldn’t make it to DC right now.

ddavitt: Sorry denis just saw that..why not?

Paradis402: Thanks.

Pixelmeow: yeah, I figured, but no flowers then…

mkeith54: can someone tell me what the url is for Robert’s web site?

BPRAL22169: Why not — but it’s like 450 miles north of where he lives.

jump101st: http://www.robertcrais.com>?

mkeith54: thanks

jump101st: YW

Pixelmeow: I’m going to fall asleep in the dark like this.

Pixelmeow: and why is my name capitalized?

ddavitt: Just went to the pic page; more pics of lauren and Eleanor up; the ones I sent Stephen months ago!

jump101st: Hook a bike to a generator Ms T. LOL

Pixelmeow: Jane, your name isn’t capitalized…

ddavitt: Forgotten how tiny lauren was

OscagneTX: This is a Stupid Question, Pix… if you’ve no power, how are you online? Laptop?

Pixelmeow: neither is yours, Steve…

Pixelmeow: Yeah, dummy, laptop…

Pixelmeow: 😉

jump101st: You can thank Jani for that Jane.

Pixelmeow: and dial up.

LadyS122: I have to get some decent pics of us sent in… although my grandkids are cute (Stephanie may not be my daughter, but I’ll claim the kids even if it does make me the youngest grandma I know)

Pixelmeow: I hate being on dial up.

OscagneTX: ahhh.

BPRAL22169: Your AIM handle is different from your screen name — you must have capitalized it when you set up your AIM account.

ddavitt: Will do but thanks for all your hard work this last few days

Pixelmeow: don’t recall that, but you may well be right.

Pixelmeow: maybe I can change it…

Pixelmeow: the welcome window has my name capitalized, too…

jump101st: I don’t have AOHell so I prolly can’t change it.

Pixelmeow: inside aol..’

BPRAL22169: Has anyone asked Crais why Heinlein?

KathieAlberthal: So has five minutes passed.

ddavitt: Yes.

SageMerlin: ten minutes ago

LadyS122 has left the room.

AGplusone: Robert’s watering his cat for anothe rtwo minutes.

BPRAL22169: What was the gist of the response?

OscagneTX: Is that like watering one’s plants?

jump101st: BRB

jump101st has left the room.

ddavitt: Omigod, just seen Randi..I argued with this woman?

AGplusone: Sumthin’ like that

ddavitt: How brave am I?:-)

AGplusone: Is Randi up?

ddavitt: Maybe she can use that axe thing on t’other randy

Pixelmeow: is randy on the ng?

Jump101st has entered the room.

SageMerlin: watering cats?

BPRAL22169: Rita just took a photo of me at the Archives; I’m thinking about having that scanned for the page.

Pixelmeow: scuse, randi

SageMerlin: I don’t even water my plants

ddavitt: Not recently; I miss her.

Pixelmeow: oh, the picpage.

jump101st: Better?

Pixelmeow: duh.

AGplusone: I’ll have the Marina photos to Steve tomorrow or so.

BPRAL22169: Very nice job on that page.

SageMerlin: That’s what girl friends are for

jump101st: Great David!

ddavitt: She gave good debate:-)

jump101st: Thanks BP

BPRAL22169: And I’ve got a scan of Emmeline Gertrude, too — she’s perched in a liveoak.

RCrais: back

KathieAlberthal: Hi thank god.

ddavitt: The cats are great (though Tally and mac are the cutest..)

SageMerlin: No comment

Pixelmeow: oh yeah, Jane, no bias there.

BPRAL22169: We should get a pic of Snowy on that page.

BPRAL22169: Ginny lurks, you know.

Pixelmeow: Where did I see one…

ddavitt: Biased about my cats and children? Moi?

SageMerlin: can we get a little order here, mr moderator

Pixelmeow: Yes, you@!

jump101st: There are two of them BP

ddavitt: naah…no need, they’re perfect, obvious to all

SageMerlin: sometime I feel so left out….

Pixelmeow: 🙂

AGplusone: We do … and a photo of Ginny, dusting Hugos

SageMerlin: That one I know about

ddavitt: Snowy is adorable

BPRAL22169: That’s mine.

BPRAL22169: He is a very handsome cat.

jump101st: And thank you for those pics David. 😉

ddavitt: Well done

ddavitt: Robert, we were wondering if you’d been to Bonny Doon?

AGplusone: Okay, we’re back on …. queue is Jane Ellen up.

RCrais: nope…i tried to find it by air once, figuring that the circular house would be easy to spot, but i didn’t find it

jump101st: I’d put a pic of our golden retriever on there, but I have no wish to get shot. LOL

KathieAlberthal: Pass.

ddavitt: Anyone know if that is still as it was when the Heinlein’s lived there?

AGplusone: Okay, next up ????

ddavitt: You’d think it would be, yes.

jump101st:

AGplusone: We ought to schedule a trip up there during ConJose

BPRAL22169: It seems to be — not much you can see from the road.

ddavitt: Poor people who live there would be baffled

ddavitt: ?

SageMerlin: Which reminds me….David, remind me to float a little proposal I have in mind for ConJose

AGplusone: Okay.

ddavitt: Robert, what’s the joke about who Elvis looks like?

ddavitt: I don’t know enough of their names to be able to guess

AGplusone: Oh, yeah … the joke …

BPRAL22169: Essentially, all you can see from the road is the top of the porte cochere

Paradis402: I believe Bonny Doon was given to UC San Jose by Ginny.

RCrais: elvis looks differently to different people…

BPRAL22169: No — it was purchased by a south American couple.

ddavitt: I know what Andy Summers and Mel Gibson look like but who is John Cassavetes?

SageMerlin: you’re KIDDING

SageMerlin: right?

ddavitt: Ah..so there’s no similarity?

KathieAlberthal: What!!!!1

RCrais: and you’ll note that i’ve never described him…for that very reason…so that individual readers will paint their own picture of him

AGplusone: I like Theisman married to Cathy Lee . . .

ddavitt:

ddavitt: Like Heinlein…

ddavitt: he did that a lot

AGplusone: We paint you from your photos on the flyleafs

AGplusone: unless it turns out that you’ve got arrows tatooed on your deltoids.

ddavitt: I thought maybe all the names were a certain sort of person

BPRAL22169: I thought it was a great joke about how people see differently, how unreliable they are about that.

ddavitt: See, I missed that being English and all

SageMerlin: Okay jane, I will let you get even: who is Andy Summers?

RCrais: nope….those people look nothing like each other

BPRAL22169: There is one facial characteristic most of those guys have in common — chins.

ddavitt: Guitarist in the Police

BPRAL22169: Guitarist with The Police,

ddavitt: Sting’s band;

BPRAL22169: Now a solo artist.

SageMerlin: Oh….okay.

ddavitt: Roxanne….

ddavitt: great song

AGplusone: [Okay, Starkey’s name got anything to do with Ringo?]

ddavitt: My dad said they’d never get big…

AGplusone: I need “?”s and “!”s for the queue

ddavitt: hah.

mkeith54: now thay’ll be in my head all night

BPRAL22169: He was right. They only had one hit album.

AGplusone: so I can start one ….

OscagneTX: what’s a ! for?

RCrais: let me do a name-drop here…i got a wonderful note from andy summers…he read the book and loved the fact that i said elvis looked like him….

SageMerlin: ! comments

AGplusone: A “?” means you want to direct a question to Robert

SageMerlin: ! He can read???

AGplusone: “!” means you want to make a statement.

AGplusone: I put you in line and call on you. Makes it somewhat less confused than we usually are.

RCrais: believe it or not, sage, he’s a VERY well-read guy

ddavitt: That’s very neat.

SageMerlin: :-X

ddavitt: Anyone else pick up on their moment of fame?

KathieAlberthal: !

ddavitt: Like james marsters?

RCrais: ha…i don’t know if mr. marsters has read my books…

RCrais: if he does, i hope he likes it…

SageMerlin: ???

ddavitt: He was reading in the crypt last episode..:-)

Pixelmeow: whose, Jane?

ddavitt: Californian actor who plays Spike the vampire aka William the Bloody

RCrais: humph…i hope he was reading MY books…

Pixelmeow: Oh, okay.

ddavitt: He is Starkey’s prom date

ddavitt: in Dem Angel

ddavitt:

Pixelmeow: wondered who “their” was.

ddavitt: Ahem.

Pixelmeow: Jane!

RCrais: well, someone named james marsters was her date…they might’ve not been the same guy, tho…. heh

Pixelmeow: Behave!

ddavitt: Hey..I can drool!

BPRAL22169: I have trouble keeping the beefcake straight on buffy.

RCrais: only if you wear a bib

ddavitt: They do get to bare all

ddavitt: I’ll bear that in mind.

Pixelmeow: I liked that part that David pasted into the ng…

Pixelmeow: that was very nice.

ddavitt: Which bit?

ddavitt: About Pike’s blue eyes?

Pixelmeow: um, the first bit, some lady leaning in the car?

SageMerlin: ????

ddavitt: That was it; karen meeting Pike

Pixelmeow: That was nice.

ddavitt: She was brave!

KathieAlberthal: Very brave but not stupid.

RCrais: karen did all right in that scene…i liked her

ddavitt: Karena nd Joseph..was that a Farnham’s Feehold riff?

ddavitt: Freehold

Pixelmeow: Hey, Karen and Joseph…

Pixelmeow: I get it..

RCrais: unfortunately, no…i realized afterwards, but did not plan it…

ddavitt: She saw something she wanted and she grabbed for it…not wise but hey…

DennEditor has entered the room.

DennEditor: nice group …

ddavitt: Joe being in love with someone else was a real twist

Pixelmeow: is Sage trying to ask a question?

Pixelmeow: four ?

ddavitt: Hi Bill

DennEditor: Hello folks ….

BPRAL22169: DennEditor =

Pixelmeow: Hi

BPRAL22169: william dennis?

Pixelmeow: makes sense

DennEditor: DennEditor=Bill Dennis

DennEditor: Hello Mr. Crais

Pixelmeow: 🙂

RCrais: hi bill…welcome

ddavitt: ?

SageMerlin: I was but I am running out of steam

Pixelmeow: finally got my chardonnay…

DennEditor: Nice of you to take time out of your day to chat with some fans.

RCrais: some of my best moments are unplanned…but i hog the credit for them, of course…

Pixelmeow: go ahead, Sage

AGplusone: Okay, is that a queue request …. Jane Davitt?

ddavitt: Did you plan the pasts of Elvis and Pike from the start or have they developed?

Pixelmeow: David, you missed Sage

SageMerlin: I have two questions, and I would like you to choose which

ddavitt: Yes; I had it all typed and ready to go

ddavitt: Sorry Sage

SageMerlin: one is about guns and the other is about writing

AGplusone: Take Jane first

SageMerlin: go ahead jane

AGplusone: Then Sage

ddavitt: S’OK

SageMerlin: go ahead

SageMerlin: please

SageMerlin: after my crack about Cassevettes

RCrais: they’ve developed…i knew certain things about joe…i knew why a lot of cops hate him…but i didn’t know the details of those moments until i wrote LAR

ddavitt: I forgive you:-)

SageMerlin: so ask yur question

ddavitt: I did

RCrais: did i answer?

ddavitt: So you always planned for him to be (they thought) a cop killer

ddavitt: but not the fine details?

KathieAlberthal: !

SageMerlin: Damn that was the question!

AGplusone: ‘kay, Sage, you’re on again …. then Jane Ellen

ddavitt: Is he a bit too heroic taking the flak for that all thses years?

RCrais: yes…i knew that he had killed his partner…but i didn’t know the details and the exact manner of this…

ddavitt: Or is it just Pike?

ddavitt: g/a

DennEditor: Why did you create Joe was someone cops didn’t like? Do create a certain aura around him, per se?

RCrais: not to me

RCrais: that’s why he’s, ah, a hero

ddavitt: I suppose. I just want the truth to come out so they like him; I’m soppy that way

SageMerlin: I get the feeling that Pike doesn’t much care about being liked

ddavitt: Well he should.

RCrais: i wanted a character who was totally on the outside…someone in conflict with established order…and i liked it that he, himself, had been a police officer…

SageMerlin: But he does care a lot about being right.

KathieAlberthal: Really?

ddavitt: It shouldn’t be the be all but it’s not normal to be so frozen inside

RCrais: yes, he very much cares about being right…

SageMerlin: Its about the Code, that Parker writes about

SageMerlin: You say you will do something, you do it.

DennEditor: A lot of characters in detective fiction are former cops. Most former cops I know tend to be far from “edgy.”

ddavitt: Is this a guy thing?

RCrais: no…it’s a hero thing…

AGplusone: Pike is an artist of ethics …

AGplusone: ethos

RCrais: you can see it in literature through the ages…

DennEditor: Mr. Crais: What are your opinions regarding Sue Grafton.

SageMerlin: He draws the lines very finely

ddavitt: Women; less heroic, more pragmatic

SageMerlin: Starkey

RCrais: i haven’t read her past few books…i don’t have the time to read much these days…but i used to be a huge kinsey fan…

SageMerlin: would agree but her actions would contradict her

AGplusone: Bill: queue …. Sage, then Jane Ellen, then you …. next

RCrais: women can be heroic, too…and there are many ways to be heroic…it’s all in presentation…

DennEditor: I would marry Kinsey Milhone ….

DennEditor: OK

DenvToday has left the room.

ddavitt: I would marry Henry:-)

AGplusone: 🙂

AGplusone: Sage: Done?

AGplusone: Jane Ellen up

KathieAlberthal: Pass

AGplusone: Bill, still here?

SageMerlin: I am curious about how you write, the mechanics of your writing. For example, Mitchner and Earl Stanley Gardner dictated their novels (like Jubal, who we have posited may have been modelled from Gardner),

DennEditor: Here. But actually, I have nothing to add! Sorry.O:-)

SageMerlin: Nabokov wrote on 5 x 7 index cards…and dropped Lolita once, which may explain a few things.

AGplusone: we’ll getcha eventually, Bill

SageMerlin: One assumes that you use a computer…but do you? and when do you write? in bursts or on a schedule.

RCrais: the way i write…i outline…i spend a lot of time figuring things out…when i know most of the story and characters, i write…then i rewrite…a lot…i’m pretty slow

BPRAL22169: If you mean me, I wasn’t in the queue.

RCrais: macintosh

SageMerlin: Don’t say a word David

AGplusone: [DenvEditor = Bill Dennis, t’other Bill]

KathieAlberthal: Exactly.

SageMerlin: I am thinking of buying one just for writing fiction

DenvToday has entered the room.

RCrais: i have a set structure…i start early and i write every day

ddavitt: Is that a dig?

SageMerlin: yup

AGplusone: Hi, Ron. Queue protocol …. use “?” for questions and I’ll call you in the order of the queue

DennEditor: This room is like my mailbox: Too many Bills.:-D

RCrais: this thing..this computer..makes the labor SO much easier…if computers vanished tonight, i’d prolly sell BMWs for a living…

SageMerlin: Roger that.

SageMerlin: changed my life they did

ddavitt: Imagine writing by hand as they used to do not that long ago

ddavitt:

Pixelmeow: Yuk

KathieAlberthal: Major bunions of the fingers.

BPRAL22169: I started with electric typewriters, and I would never go back to the sheer amount of effort writing took.

Pixelmeow: makes my arm hurt.

RCrais: i started writing by hand…then a smith manual…jeez…i couldn’t go back

SageMerlin: think about this: William Shakespeare wrote 36 plays in 23 years with a quill pen

AGplusone: Imagine how I felt for forty years, none of the people I met ever heard of Heinlein

ddavitt: cut and paste alone is worth the price of admission

Pixelmeow: wow.

RCrais: that’s affirm

AGplusone: even the bright ones

jump101st: [I owned a pencil once.]

RCrais: ha

ddavitt: I was the only one I knew too AG

SageMerlin: no…really?

BPRAL22169: Unfortunately, it also encourages bad habits — writing before you’re ready to put down on paper.

Pixelmeow: youngun.

AGplusone: Here, I can go through the entire world and find people to talk about him!

ddavitt: It’s very nice.

SageMerlin: What breaks my heart is that he’s not here to talk back to us

RCrais: that’s true…but it also encourages rewriting…

Pixelmeow: I find that as soon as I say that RAH wrote science fiction…

AGplusone: yeah

Pixelmeow: I get a lot of eye rolling.

BPRAL22169: Yes — and other bad habits.

Pixelmeow: Oh, you read that stuff…

ddavitt: It frees you to think instead of worrying about legibility

DennEditor: I am upset that Heinlein dies before the Internet took off. I would have loved to chat with him online.

BPRAL22169: no, no — he would never have written another novel!

ddavitt: He would have avoided it like the plague if he ever wanted to write much

SageMerlin: I had a client come into my office the other day, an english teacher, and I talked him into teaching Lord of the Flies together with Tunnel in the Sky

DennEditor: Ohhhh …. good.

BPRAL22169: Let’s see that silver tongue.

SageMerlin: ahhh

ddavitt: It sucks up so much of my time..fun but addictive

Pixelmeow: rofl!

RCrais: i was upset that he died, period…i was in NY at the first Edgar Award banquet that I attended…i was told about it in an elevator…

Pixelmeow: I heard it on the radio.

Pixelmeow: in the car.

AGplusone: Imagine: I didn’t pick up on the Heinlein references in Robert’s works until LA Requiem … he was just one of several writers in mystery detective I read …. like the back of cereal boxes … enjoyed, but then …. someone said .

BPRAL22169: A friend called me.

Pixelmeow: almost wrecked.

ddavitt: I found out a year later..picked up an SF encyclopedia, turned to H and saw the date of death filled in. Burst into tears.

DennEditor: Here is a question: If RAH were alive today, what would he be writing about? What would have interested him enough to put in in a novel?

AGplusone: he’s talking about HSSWT in Demolition Angel … so I had to go buy it and read it.

ddavitt: No one at work could figure out why I cared

Pixelmeow: when I heard about it was actually a few years after it happened.

DennEditor: I read of his death in the newspaper. I had read most of his stuff by then.

RCrais: ya see? i baited ya in! works every time!

ddavitt: I was living in the UK..no mention of it in the papers at all

Pixelmeow: I hadn’t been introduced to him until the year he died.

AGplusone: 1987-8 was a bad year for me. First John D. MacDonald, then Robert Heinlein

Pixelmeow: Bad Robert!

BPRAL22169: Oh, even worse: clifford simak died the week before RAH.

RCrais: i was nommed for an edgar that year, and when i heard the news i simply no longer cared…all the joy went out of me…

KathieAlberthal: Yes, John D, read every single one including the obscure.

ddavitt: And you told me..so I went and read them. Cunning ploy Robert!

RCrais: i am evil that way

ddavitt: That’s a shame; did it creep back in though?

DennEditor: Did everyone see the pic of Mrs. Heinlein dusting the rocket garden on the pic page? Lovely.

AGplusone: Yes, very nice, Robert …. sez Zim

ddavitt: It’s a great photo

SageMerlin: Speaking of evil, where do you keep the picture that aging while you;re not?

RCrais: eventually…but not for a long time…i felt empty…it was like my own father had died…

BPRAL22169: It’s been 14 years. There’s a part of me that’s gone completely and will never com eback.

AGplusone: Isn’t it. Bill Pattersn took it.

RCrais: bless you, sage…these monkey gland injections are great!

ddavitt: I felt it like a punch to the stomach; no more books by him…ever.

SageMerlin: Yeah, I was trying to figure out if you could have served in A

SageMerlin: Vietnam

RCrais: nope

AGplusone: Robert: BPRAL is the editor of The Heinlein Journal the copy of which I gave you. He might like to have an article from you ….

RCrais: well, i could’ve if i had signed up at 17

SageMerlin: I figured that you just missed it.

ddavitt: Elvis is aging erratically

DennEditor: You know there is only ONE Heinlein novel I have yet to read … “Rocketship Galileo (sp).

SageMerlin: Spenser has that problem….he has to be 70 by now.

AGplusone: Really? I’ll send you a copy. I actually like it.

ddavitt: Kinsey stays in the past but that’s tricky to write without tripping over anachronisms

Pixelmeow: you guys don’t want to know what I’ve found out..

RCrais: elvis started out older than me, and now i think he’s younger…strange, huh?

DennEditor: Nazis on the moon …

Pixelmeow: David?

BPRAL22169: I just picked up a recent Kate Fansler novel and it occurred to me she’s got to bein her 70’s by now.

AGplusone: It grows on you. You know the story about my father after he read it?

Pixelmeow: Don and I are working together on the new book exchange.

ddavitt: He does want to be Peter Pan

Pixelmeow: Speaking of giving a book away.

RCrais: i had a great time with that issue…and the article on leslyn…

DennEditor: Kinsey keeps buying VW Bugs to drive around…..

ddavitt: Great Pix; that needs reviving

Pixelmeow: 🙂

SageMerlin: I think Mr. Crais has a patent on the Peter Pan thing.

DennEditor: I want to know WHERE she gets them’

BPRAL22169: Glad you enjoyed it. the next one is out now.

Pixelmeow: We’re working on a design now.

Pixelmeow: will maybe meet this weekend.

AGplusone: My father was a Jew. Librarian gave me the copy to read: said take it home and ask your parents. I showed it to dad. He read it.

OscagneTX: I just finished RSG.

OscagneTX: *grin*

BPRAL22169: He must have approved.

ddavitt: You read the Journal? You’ve read something I’ve done?

RCrais: i read that issue, yeah…what did you write?

DennEditor: Kinsey is typical female in a lot of ways … she keeps describing herself as ugly, but I kinda doubt it. She has self esteem problems.

BPRAL22169: Yes– she reviewed The Martian Named Smith in that issue

AGplusone: Said: it’s fine for you to read it. Said to my mother: first time I’ve ever seen a Jewish boy in a book. This was 1954

ddavitt: Umm..that issue I think it was the review of Bill and Andy’s book

RCrais: tres cool…how often is it published?

ddavitt: I did one on the 2 versions of Red planet, one on Kipling influences

BPRAL22169: Last two pages of text. Twice a year — July 7 and January whenever.

RCrais: you do good work

BPRAL22169: Jane is puffed up with pride — formerly it was just because she was collected in the Bodleian.

BPRAL22169: thank you. Now she has a second reason.

RCrais: LOL

ddavitt: You should push it more Bill; you’re too modest

SageMerlin: ???

ddavitt: What me? I thought you meant Bill.

RCrais: is it available in sf bookstores?

ddavitt: It should be.

AGplusone: As I said when I met you, Robert, you could write an article that Bill would be proud to publish ….

BPRAL22169: Not yet — I’ve been (unsuccessfully) pushing libraries rather than specialty bookstores.

ddavitt: It’s in the Toronto Public Library

DavidWrightSr: Bodleian – ‘The center of the scholar’s universe’

ddavitt: I want to be locked in there someday

RCrais: time is in short supply, unfortunately…

SageMerlin: I need a drink

ddavitt: I’ve seen the outside

AGplusone: ‘nother gin and tonic …

SageMerlin: ??? Mr. Moderator

RCrais: try the specialty stores…it’s a natural

AGplusone: pushing eleven minutes to go

BPRAL22169: Oxford blues is showing on HBO now.

RCrais: eleven and counting…

Pixelmeow: Sage, you just can’t get on tonight~

BPRAL22169: I will — thanks. It’s a matter of limited resources of time.

RCrais: LOL

ddavitt: Well, if we’re winding up, thanks very much for joining us Robert.

Pixelmeow: Just ask!

SageMerlin: who’s winding up

AGplusone: I’d like to thank Robert. Sorry you missed our Australian and Finland contingent

ddavitt: It’s been a lot of fun

DennEditor: “sci-fi bookstore” pfui! You can buy whole collections of Star Wars and Battletech crap, but ask about Heinlein or Turtledove or even Doc Smith and they ask “Who’s he?”

RCrais: it’s been fun for me…

ddavitt: I thought Robert was hinting he’s running out of time to chat

AGplusone: Wonderful that you took the time. And a great deal of fun for us!

SageMerlin: Okay: I know you have written television scripts…are you going to be writing the scripts for the film versions of your books

DennEditor: (mumble, mumble)

ddavitt: But you can always drop in anytime

KathieAlberthal: Want you to know that your Writers Conference in Colorado Springs is doing a tape and it will be at our library soon. Tried to get it before but still processing.

AGplusone: As some have

jump101st: {Very educational. I’ve enjoyed this and will now read the books. :-)]

RCrais: yeah…i’m gonna go at 8…i’ve got an early flight out tomorrow…5:15AM…!

ddavitt: Joel Rosenberg started out as a mere guest and graduated to chat regular :-):-)

Pixelmeow: [me too]

SageMerlin: Mumble mumble

DennEditor: g’night

BPRAL22169: Ascended to the pantheon?

RCrais: i have…i wrote the scripts for DEMOLITION ANGEL and HOSTAGE…

ddavitt: Something like that

Pixelmeow: ‘night bill

DennEditor has left the room.

RCrais: hope you like’m, jump

Pixelmeow: me too, sage…

Pixelmeow: 🙂

SageMerlin: It is a strain to convert your own work for the screen?:

ddavitt: 5.15 is a hellish time to be awake

AGplusone: if you had to write a Heinlein script … you’d want to do Red Planet … how would you pitch it?

RCrais: it was for DA, yes…i thought it would be easy, but it was damned hard

jump101st: [waving to all as I leave. Good evening. :-)]

Pixelmeow: bye steve!

AGplusone: nite Steve

jump101st: Bye Ms T. 😉

Pixelmeow: 🙂

AGplusone: t’anks for the page

jump101st: Night David

mkeith54: nite steve

ddavitt: Night Steve

RCrais: not sure, off hand, david…i’d spend a lot of time on the pitch…maybe as the American Revolution on Mars…

jump101st: See ya Mike

jump101st: …and Jane. 😉

OscagneTX has left the room.

jump101st hasto ba left the room.

ddavitt: There is a lot of sub text to back that up

ddavitt: How about the mystery of Doc Macrae’s age?

SageMerlin: I’ve written a LOT of proposals in my time, but never a film pitch

ddavitt: Was he a Howard? Hmm…

RCrais: a pitch is its own form….

ddavitt: have to sell the idea first?

RCrais: i think he was a howard…

AGplusone: Again, back to Tunnel, do you think an anti-Lord of Flies pitch would fly?

BPRAL22169: Well — actually — you dont write a film pitch. A “pitch” is technically a meeting.

ddavitt: He remebers TV starting…ancient

RCrais: that’s the first thing they buy…the concept…the idea…if they like the notion, they’ll buy it, then worry about the script later…

SageMerlin: I am still thinking about Red Planet as the American Revolution

Part 2

ddavitt: And wrestling as a form of square dancing …LOL

BPRAL22169: Right — and the treatment is a stage at which the originator can be cut off.

ddavitt: Well, if you’re going to get all technical on me, Bill…

BPRAL22169: who? me (innocently)

SageMerlin: I’m a Boston driver….no one cuts me off

RCrais: but you figure out what you’re going to say and how you’re going to say it…me, i sit here and work the thing out, write it as if it’s a piece of writing…only is has to be small and tight and concise…

BPRAL22169: I don’t know nuffin about birfin no scripts…

SageMerlin: how tight

Pixelmeow: I’m now a DC driver… it don’t happen to me, either…

SageMerlin: he asks slyly

BPRAL22169: How tight? For the Star Trek pitch sessions they tell you to give ’em “log lines” — the descriptions you would find in a TV Guide entry.

ddavitt: There are refs all the way thru the book Sage

RCrais: 20 seconds…maybe 30….

DavidWrightSr: Real tight. “Imagine Braveheart on Mars”

ddavitt: Ending with them cribbing from the Dec of Independence

BPRAL22169: Hit ’em with high concept.

RCrais: like dave said

ddavitt: to write the treaty with earth

SageMerlin: Roddenberry pitched star trek as “Wagon Train in Space.

AGplusone: It’s time to say “Goodbye, for all the company …. M-I-C …. K-E-Y ….

DavidWrightSr: M o u s e

BPRAL22169: Oh, we already know you have an Apple, David.

AGplusone: Thank you Robert

ddavitt: Any Ovalteenies around?

mkeith54: thanks for stopping by Robert

BPRAL22169: It was a pleasure, Mr. Crais.

SageMerlin: Robert, really, it has been a great pleasure

RCrais: yeah…you pitch the notion..then you give them the characters…and that’s a line or two each…and they either get it or they don’t…you can’t ‘convince’ them

AGplusone: A great pleasure ….

DavidWrightSr: Enjoyed it Robert. Look forward to finishing LA Req

ddavitt: Ditto and AOL

RCrais: i had a wonderful time…thank you all…

RCrais: and thanks, dave and david, for hosting me

KathieAlberthal: Thanks for the invite, I’m afraid I’m keeping my host up beyond his bedtime. Thanks for the invite. Next time there will be no doubt who I am. REALLY enjoyed the chat and keep ’em coming Mr. Crais.

BPRAL22169: I’ve forgotten — are we going to do this on Saturday as well?

Pixelmeow: Yes, thanks!

RCrais: i will

AGplusone: Our pleasure and it was definitely one.

RCrais: you guys have a good night

RCrais: over and out

BPRAL22169: ciao

KathieAlberthal has left the room.

djindalian: thanks

DavidWrightSr: Do svidanije

ddavitt: safe trip.

RCrais has left the room.

AGplusone: No, not planned for Saturday

AGplusone: Sadly

mkeith54: too bad was lots ‘o fun

BPRAL22169: OK — I remember the possibility was up for discussion; I just couldn’t remember whether there was any resolution.

DavidWrightSr: I think that tonight’s attendance was a record.

BPRAL22169: Went very nicely, I think.

Pixelmeow: can’t believe I made it…

OscagneTX has entered the room.

BPRAL22169: Yeah, well keep cranking those pedals.

Pixelmeow: very funny!

BPRAL22169: Get out the whips for the squirrel.s

ddavitt: 16 at one point; very good

Pixelmeow: now howinhell am I supposed to catch squirrels???

mkeith54: I didn’t think I get back from my son’s welcome home dinner, turned out he had to be up early to get to the base in th AM

SageMerlin: get a cat

Pixelmeow: got a lazy one…

DavidWrightSr: yeah 16. I wondered it that might be a limit which is why I logged in as MaiKosht. No limit there at least

BPRAL22169: Acorns?

SageMerlin: stop feeding him. You will get squirrels

SageMerlin: Of course they might be dead

ddavitt: That was good that you made it Mike

Pixelmeow: Yeah, there’s that.

Pixelmeow: Dead squirrels will run no wheels.

OscagneTX: g’night

OscagneTX has left the room.

Pixelmeow: I like the acorns.

ddavitt: Night!

Pixelmeow: night, oscagne

SageMerlin: I didn’t get to ask him about why Elvis carries that silly .38

Pixelmeow: Mr Moderator was ignoring you, Sage.

AGplusone: Bill. Still there.

mkeith54: He did 6 months in the UAE and all he has to say is that other people did more important stuff than him

ddavitt: I will vanish…nother bad night with Lauren after a few brief flashes of hope that she was starting to sleep better:-(

AGplusone: Okay. We can close log here.

Pixelmeow: bye jane.

DenvToday: Night everybody

AGplusone: But: he’s interested in the other agenda

mkeith54: nite jane

ddavitt: Is there no meet at all then?

Pixelmeow: bye!

ddavitt: On sat?

BPRAL22169 has left the room.

AGplusone: no meeting saturday

mkeith54: boo hiss

ddavitt: OK, thanks for all the work setting this up AG

AGplusone: yeah

Pixelmeow: we could always just get together and talk…

ddavitt: The rooms’ always here

Pixelmeow: yeah!

Pixelmeow: what time?

AGplusone: Was fun, hope everyne enjoyed it.

DavidWrightSr: I’ll be to record if anyone shows up.

Pixelmeow: Yep.

DavidWrightSr: I’ll be here

ddavitt: I certainly did

djindalian: I did too

Pixelmeow: what time???

DenvToday: Then maybe I’ll see you then!

jilyd: Thanks to all. I enjoyed “listening” even though I didn’t have anything to say.

DavidWrightSr: 5:00 P.M. EST

AGplusone: Robert’s a good guy. Very human

BPRAL22169 has entered the room.

ddavitt: We’ve been very lucky with our guests; all been nice people

mkeith54: 4 central

SageMerlin: if they weren’t nice they wouldn’t come

AGplusone: Dave Wright: got log?

DavidWrightSr: Got it. I’ll add what you sent to the beginning

AGplusone: ‘kay

AGplusone: Nice attendance. Thank you all

Pixelmeow: Thanks davids!

DennEditor has entered the room.

mkeith54: yes thanks

DavidWrightSr: Folks, I’ve got to go. See you Later

Pixelmeow: Bye, david!

mkeith54: bye

DennEditor: Later david ….

**************Log Officially closed at 11:02 P.M. EST**********
Final End Of Discussion Log

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